Amino Acid For neurological symptoms

Here is my current regimen, updated each time I change something:

Upon waking up at 6:30am & before sending kids to school:
5-HTP 100mg
Tyrosine 500mg
L-Dopa 350mg
Half of all Vitamin B (3,6,12, biotin)
Calcium Pyruvate 500mg in a capsule.

Cold Jiaogulan tea all day instead of water as much as possible.

Theanine 200mg
Coffee with 1 tps sugar and milk
Bread and butter, small Danish if not too sweet, or american breakfast.
I also take Glucosamine once a week and Pro-biotic (on Sundays only)
2 tbsp coconut oil

Sometimes I skip the breakfast (except the coffee) and I’ll take the protein shake sooner.

Whey isolate proteins shake, no more than 2 scoops (32gr) with added:
Valine 2000 mg
DHEA 10 mg
Pregnenolone 10 mg (testing 20mg)
Sometime I add half a scoop of vegan protein shake if feeling hungry. It adds extra good aminos without adding extra Cysteine which can make me feel nauseous.
Pine Pollen with DMSO, 1 pea size rubbed on both forearms. (see below)

Before Lunch at Noon
Other half of all vitamin B
Choline 500mg
Inusitol 500mg
Glutathione, 250mg
Gelatin 5gr in hot water with beef stock (Soon to be replaced by collagen peptides, 2-3 gr.)

Lunch at Noon:

Rib eye Steak 250-350 gr (or some other fat cut of steak), saturated fat and kale 250 gr.
After 6 months of this diet, I’m more flexible. As long as it’s low carbs, high saturated fat and high protein it’s Ok. Fat can be butter, ghee, lard of tallow.

Right After Lunch:
5-HTP 50/100mg (testing)
Tyrosine 250/500mg (testing)
L-Dopa 175/350mg (testing)
Vitamin A 10000 IU (currently at 25000 IU until I can find 10000 IU pills)
Vitamin D3 10000 IU
Multi-vitamins for men or some natural multi-vitamins
Calcium Pyruvate 400mg (put in a small capsule. It taste bad and does not dissolve easily)

Will test, right after lunch:
Vitamin K2 5 mcg (Maybe increase to 10 mcg. 45000 mcg is upper safe limit but effects start to be felt at 5mcg and higher doses may mess up your joints. People have had bad effects with this one. Better keep it low)

Before exercise or sex, either around 11am or 2-3pm:
Arginine suite (L-Arginine 1000mg, Arginine AKG 500mg, L-Citrulline 500mg, L-Ornithine 500mg). I don’t always take it.

I do at least some exercise every day. Exercise is mostly resistance training but also some cardio.

Between Noon to 5 pm:
200 ml of electrolyte mix (see below) with 50-100 ml of soda water (plain carbonated water with bubbles).
I add Carnitine Tartrate 1000 mg with Betaine HCL 400mg in the electrolyte mix as theyre all sour. Its delicious. Too bad I can take only one glass per day ! (more would throw my electrolytes out of balance)

Whey isolate protein shake 2 scoops (32 gr) (if hungry) Sometime with added 1/2 scoop vegan protein shake if hungry.

Dinner before 6pm:
Either same as Lunch or something lighter like a soup made with bone broth, some cheese and some raw veggies like cabbage, cucumbers or celery. Most important is I’m finish eating before 6pm so I can take my sleeping pills on an empty stomach.
Also I drink the least liquids possible after 6pm so I don’t have to wake up and pee at night. That really messes up my night and the next day.

Magnesium 25mg

3 mg Clonazepam (sleeping pill)
2.5 mg Hydroxyzine (anti-histamine)

Before sleep at 9;30pm:
B3 (niacinamide) 30 mg
Slow Release Melatonin 5mg
1/3 a cup of warm milk with 1/2 tsp honey and Inusitol (Vitamin B8) 3000mg
a slice of cheese. (this is to prevent Cortisol Spike during the night)

I keep 3000mg of Inusitol, a glass, a spoon and some water next to the bed in case I wake up during the night. If I do, I’ll take the Inusitol and go back to sleep.

Sleep at 9:30/10pm, always wake up at 6:30/7am even on holidays.
I will test getting up after waking up if I slept at least 6 hours, just to see if That’s my body telling me I slept enough.

I can take Theanine 200mg a second time during the day or in the evening. it’s like an aspirin for stress. (I wouldn’t take more than 2 doses a day)
Careful with high doses of Theanine with high doses of Arginine as it can cause drop in blood pressure.

Electrolyte mix :
In a 1.5 liter bottle: 10 gr magnesium chloride, 5 gr potassium chloride, 150 ml lemon juice or 8 gr citric acid, natural orange/lemon flavor, fill with water to the rim.

Pine Pollen with DMSO: I mixed 1 ounce of DMSO and 1 scoop (5gr) of Pine Pollen. That lasts me for months as I need only apply 1 pea size (or 2) to one of my forearm, and rub both forearms together to spread it over the veins. It goes straight to the blood, ergo the much smaller dose.

I’m soon to introduce new supplements. I’m now studying Adrenalin Fatigue as I think it’s the cause of waking up during the night (If not the Orexin complex). I will also check my testosterone / estrogen ratio to make sure it’s in line.

Some notes on tolerance for Serotonin and Dopamine

L-Dopa can induce tolerance. According to a clinical study on Alzheimer subjects, It takes 5 years, at 350mg per day to develop tolerance and dosage needs to be increased. Good news, if a patient takes an L-Dopa holiday of 7 days after 5 years, he can then decrease the dose by 30-50% for the next 3 years before needing another holiday. So to avoid tolerance, we can either take a one week holiday every year or two, or maybe cycling the drug will do it (but I do’t know if stopping only one day per week enables the receptors to clear out. it’s just theory)

For 5-HTP, it’s dangerous if combined with:

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor(SSRI) (One guy on this forum got sick by combining both.)
Serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor(SNRI)
Monoamine oxidase inhibitor(MAOI)
Tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs)
St. John’s worth
Or cocaine
So be careful. Some people here are on SSRI, SNRI or TCAs. Also beware of 5-HTP and St-John’s Worth combination. (should I mention taking ecstasy or cocaine is not a good idea if you’ve got PFS ?)

Recommended dosage of 5-HTP goes from 100mg to 900mg a day, and according to another study administration of 5-HTP alone depletes catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine, the later two being produced from dopamine). So it should be taken along with L-Dopa. Morning coffee also increase catecholamines production.

Here’s the chemistry:

5-HTP may deplete dopamine.
l-tryptophan may deplete dopamine.
l-dopa may deplete serotonin,
l-dopa may deplete l-tryptophan.
l-dopa may deplete l-tyrosine.
l-dopa may deplete sulfur amino acids.
l-tyrosine may deplete serotonin.
l-tyrosine may deplete 5-HTP.
l-tyrosine may deplete sulfur amino acids.
Sulfur amino acids may deplete dopamine.
Sulfur amino acids may deplete serotonin.
Study group were given:

5-HTP daily dosing values > 0 to 2,400 mg per day.
l-tyrosine daily dosing values > 0 to 14,000 mg per day.
l-dopa daily dosing values > 0 to 2,100 mg per day.

It seems that to avoid depletion, not much is needed:

5-HTP dosing value of 2,400 mg per day with an l-dopa dosing value of 30 mg per day is required for proper balance, or 25 mg per day of 5-HTP with 2,100 mg of l-dopa will be in proper balance.
I’ve seen nothing bad on serotonin tolerance, even at higher dose, unless it’s taken without L-Tyrosine or L-Dopa, or if taken in combination with what’s listed above as dangerous interaction.

To answer questions left open by all this data, Depletion of L-Tyrosine is unlikely if you eat meat (I get 9000 mg a day in my 2 steaks) and tolerance is obviously out of the question as it’s a common amino acid found in food. Sulfur amino acids are common is food, especially meat, and you get them all in a protein shake. I also think depletion or tolerance is not an issue unless you’re on a restrictive diet (like you’re a virtuous vegan with deficiencies all over the place)

So to conclude on this, 5-HTP 100mg / 200mg, taken along L-Dopa 350mg / 700mg and L-Tyrosine 500 mg / 1000mg, all 3 taken daily, should not induce tolerance except for L-Dopa which may induce tolerance after 3-5 years. A one week L-Dopa holiday per year (or reducing L-Dopa to 25mg per day for 1 week while still taking 5-HTP) should avoid tolerance.

Here’s what I think of the amino acids I tested:

Well, I’ll start by those who have a good effects:

5-HTP 100mg along with L-Tyrosine 500mg and L-Dopa 350mg first thing in the morning.
This clears away the brain fog, prevent depression and makes me feel confident. It also put me in a good mood and I’m motivated to begin the day. My best amino acids.
For a time, I took a second set at noon. Feels great, maybe too much, and it makes it harder to sleep at night.

Theanine 200mg: This one works on GABA, serotonin and dopamine. I use it in case of anxiety or stress in the day time but it doesn’t feel good before bed time. I take it with coffee as it creates a synergy with caffeine and prevent a caffeine rush (cortisol spike). It’s mellow, but energetic at the same time. good for concentration. At other time I consider it as an anxiety aspirin.

L-Valine 2000mg. I take this one in an effort to restore sexual sensitivity. Sensitivity is increasing but it’s over a long period of time (months) and I can’t know for sure if Valine is responsible. It’s one of the one BCAA that has an effect on the mind, connecting it to the muscle, among other effects.

DHEA 10mg. This is a precursor to both testosterone and estrogen. it raises both. The pills are 100mg, which is way too much (and feels bad) but at 10mg, I get a good effect at boosting testosterone (I deal with estrogen with other aminos below). This one can be dangerous and make people worst. use with caution and in small dose. It has to be tapered off.

Pregnenolone 10mg: Precursor to most hormones. When I take it, i feel calm and strong. It kinda stabilize me deep down inside. In can be transformed onto whatever hormone the body needs (almost). I once took up to 400mg a day ! I was feeling hype and on top of the world. After a while, I started destabilizing so I tapered off to 10mg. This one also can be dangerous and make people worst. use with caution and in small dose. It has to be tapered off.

DLPA 500mg. It’s the cousin of L-Tyrosine and both are precursors to regulating dopamine. I can’t say I’ve seen a difference taking it.

Pine Pollen in DMSO. DMSO can be mixed with both water and oil, and it extract what is soluble in both. Putting the pine pollen in DMSO and applying a pea size to my forearm (and spreading it) makes all pine pollen androgen go directly to the blood. I once put 1/2 tea spoon and I felt like taking two Testocaps. A real testosterone rush. It made me aggressive so I reduce to a pea size amount. (this one prevents prostate cancer. It’s an adaptogen.

Choline 500mg: This one does 3 cool things. It cleans the liver of fat (I’m on a high saturated fat diet), it’s creates the neuro-transmitter acetyl-Choline which among other things, regulates the vagus nerve (and therefore has an effect on the guts) and it methylate estrogen and get rid of the excess.

Inusito 500mgl: It’s actually vitamin B8. It goes well with Choline as it also cleans the liver from fat, but Choline is a stimulant and B8 is a relaxant. I’m now testing it as a sleep supplement, at 2-4 gr before sleep. So far so good.

Betaine 400mg. Along with Choline, it methylate estrogen and get rid of the excess. It does other cool stuff like greatly helping with digestion, heart health and people use it for better athletic performance. It helps in improving sleep by easing digestion.

Glutathione 250mg. The body’s master anti-oxidant. We can create it with Cysteine (which makes me nauseous if I take too much) so I take Glutathione directly. I’d be lying if I said I feel super anti-oxidized. But it decreases inflammation so that can’t be bad.

Collagen peptide 5 gr. I take this after a fast, to fix leaky guts, to prevent food allergies and reduce inflammation. It also fixes joints. Great supplement. People have had bad effect from this. I took up to 30 gr. a day and was fine but i keep it to no more than 5 gr now.

Of course, there’s the whole vitamin B complex, which is of use against anxiety. B6 and B12 are needed to convert serotonin into melatonin. (along with calcium, magnesium and zinc. but all in small amounts, like 1/10th of a normal commercial dose)

I’m now trying Calcium Pyruvate 1000mg as a source of both components. Calcium should be taken in the morning, it’s a stimulant, but a small dose before sleep (like 25mg) helps with melatonin. Pyruvate promotes the Orexin complex which regulate the circadian rhythm. Makes you awake in the day and sleep at night. It regulates the production of melatonin. Again so far so good. Worst case scenario, I’m just taking a calcium supplement at low dose.

Carnitine Tartrate 1000mg. Helps build muscle when doing resistance training and creates more estrogen receptors. Aas resistance training boost 5 alpha reductase, I think this one contributes. I take it to alleviate sexual symptoms. I don’t know if it works. I do have a six pack, nice pecs and nice shoulders, and sexually I’ almost 100% except for a lower sex drive (maybe it’s pfs, maybe it’s because I’m 50, maybe it’s because I took the red pill and I have less interests in women. I don’t know)

The Arginine suite: L-Arginine 500mg, Arginine AKG 500mg, L-Citruline 500mg, L-Ornithine 500mg.
basically gets rid of ammonia in the body, creates nitric oxide, is good for erections and helps sleep by clearing out sulfur dioxide (which can cause insomnia and headache) I take it before training as it eliminates toxins from the muscle as we train. Also good before sex, it’s a natural, less potent Viagra.

Melatonin. It helps me sleep. Before I was taking an anti-depressor (Agomelatin) which interacted with melatonin so I couldn’t take this supplement but now I can. I never saw any affects from Agomelatin, except on my wallet: it’s expensive.

What didn’t work or had negative effects:

GABA. It’s suppose to help with anxiety but it interacts with the benzodiazepine I take for sleeping. So it’s bad for me, maybe good for someone that takes no drugs acting on the GABA receptors.

Calm Aid. Silexan (lavender oil). It doubles down on my benzodiazepine and knock me out for the night. it’s like a double dose. However, it’s estrogenic and make all sexual symptoms worst. Not for me.

Fish oil. Omega 3-6-9. For some reason, I feel bad taking it. I think it’s an 5ari and that would be why. To be honest, if it feels bad, I don’t waste time searching why. I just flush it.

Taurine. I had great hope for this one. In the absance of allopregnanolone, it the back up regulator of GABA receptors. But it makes me feel bad. Either because my GABA R are messed up, or because it interracts with the benzodiazepine. Aalso not for me.

Tryptophan. People have good effects from this, not me. If I take it before sleep, it’s a ticket for insomnia. For some reason I don’t get, 5-HTP works better for me (but in the daytime)

Glycine: Another one that was supposed to help but never did anything I can feel. It’s suppose to fix the guts, although collagen is better in my opinion. So I take it or not, no difference.

Glutamine. Tried it in the day time, before bed, never saw a difference. It is the most common amino acid in the body (makes up 30 or 40% of all aminos in the body, I can’t remember). I take it as a supplement to create muscle. It surely helps but I can’t feel it.

That’s all the time I have today.

Next time, I’ll write some about vitamins, minerals and herbs.

I wish the best to you all.

Update: Inusitol in a separate form (without Choline), Betaine and Calcium Pyruvate are new additions to my regimen. I still don’t know if and How I will add them permanently.

Yesterday I had a bad night. Possibly because I overslept by 2 hours on the previous night (it always makes it difficult on the next night when I oversleep) or possibly because of Calcium Pyruvate, Calcium being a stimulant and Pyruvate boosting the Orexin complex (the awakeness hormone). Still need more testing to ascertain it’s effects.

Betaine HCL, especially at lower doses like I’m taking, does not seem to be detrimental.

Inusitol (B8) 2000mg is surprisingly good. If it wasn’t for having to get up and pee, I would have had a wonderful night. I woke up (to pee) feeling amazingly groggy and it went away within 5 minutes. After I couldn’t sleep for the rest of the night. I’ve read taking another 2000mg after waking up would fix this. I’ll test it.

And here how the experiment started:

So I’m starting a new experiment with aminos. My aim is to improve all pfs symptoms.

Day 1:

In my morning shake, half vegan and half whey protein isolate, I’m putting these extra aminos:

5-HTP 200mg
L-Tyrosine 500mg
Pregnanolone 30mg
L-Dopa 350mg

Update: 30 minutes after that shake, I feel sleepy. It must be the 5-HTP. I’ll do some cardio to wake me up.
I also took an extra 500mg of Tyrosine (or had the intention of taking it anyway. Short term memory is still not good and I can’t know for sure if I took it or not)

30 minutes Before lunch I took

DHEA 100mg
Glutathione, 250mg
L-Arginine, L-arginine AKG, L-Citruline, 500mg each in 1 pill.

I had steak and Kale for lunch, Kale being taken for it DIM content in an effort to balance the extra estrogen DHEA might produce.

In the afternoon, I felt energized and very motivated. I started doing some weight lifting and cardio, and in the end, I just couldn’t stay home and went to the swimming pool with one of my son.
My mind is clear, I feel happy, strong and confident.

We then went to a restaurant and I had spaghetti and meatball with garlic bread. I’m noting this here and it’s relevant because 4 months ago carbs used to cause me anxiety, panic attack, speech slur, confusion, depression and extreme weakness (can’t stand up kinda weakness). I had none of that. As noted under my
Collagen experiment The use of Collagen it’s unclear if the changes came from collagen or from the ketogenic / carnivore diet (or maybe simply the passage of time if I could be that lucky)

Now I’ll do some more weight lifting to burn out those dirty carbs.

Before sleep, I will take:

Gaba (150mg) (from a 750mg pill to avoid vivid dreams)
Glycine (500 mg) (cut in half because I took 2.5gr of gelatin which contains 750mg of glycine)
L-Theanine (200mg)
Glutamine (2.5 gr) (cut in half, Protein shake contains Glutamine)
Tryptophan (1000mg)
L-Arginine (500mg)
Ornithine (500mg)
Taurine (1000mg)

That’s a lot of different aminos, Later on, I’ll be more selective and try and sort out which one works best.


Yes. Tyrosine should be taken in the day time to energize and clear brain fog.

GABA, I’m not sure. never tried. Vivid dreams and rem sleep are not exactly what I’m looking for. I’ll cut the dose in half just in case. Thanks for the advise.

I bought the aminos separately to have more control.

Day 2:

Well, I didn’t sleep too bad. Instead of having 4-5 hours of deep sleep, then 3-4 hours of light sleep and dreams, waking up all the time I woke up every 2 hours or so from the beginning, had plenty of dreams and still got up well rested. It’s not too bad, but it’s not an improvement. Plus I’ll have to see in the afternoon if I get tired then I’ll know if the sleep I had was good quality enough.

I will try taking GABA at lunch and dinner instead of before sleep as it may have disturbed my sleep.
I will reduce 5-HTP at lunch to 100mg, and see if it makes me less sleepy at 1pm.

I’m not sure pregnanolone does anything. I’ll increase it to see if there’s a difference.
I’ll make a few changes in dosage and note it below when it’s done.

Morning (in a protein shake)

5-HTP 100mg (yesterday I took 200mg)
L-Tyrosine 1000mg (yesterday I took 500mg)
Pregnanolone 170mg (yesterday I took 30mg, Maybe useless)
L-Dopa 350mg (Maybe useless)
Gaba (300mg) Move from before sleep (yesterday I took 150mg)

Update: Reducing 5-HTP to 100mg had a good effect. I didn’t feel sleepy. Maybe it’s also because I increased L-Tyrosine from 500 to 1000mg.
I felt a little weird and had a little headache that didn’t last after taking the shake with those extra aminos. Could be that 1000mg Tyrosine is too much or maybe it’s the increased in Pregnanolone. Tomorrow, I’ll decrease both and keep 5-HTP at 100mg.

30 minutes Before lunch (all aminos same as yesterday):

DHEA 100mg (Scares me off. It creates extra hormones which could make me worst but it does reduce Cortisol, the stress hormone)
Glutathione, 250mg (To take with DHEA, body produces massive amount of it already)
L-Arginine, L-arginine AKG, L-Citruline, 500mg each in 1 pill

Update: For lunch, I had 300gr of ribeye steak cooked in lard with salt as well as some sum choy (some kind of Chinese very leafy kinda cabbage. Looks like spinach. Anyway it has DIM which helps with potential extra estrogen caused by DHEA) and 1/2 liter of Jiaogulan as usual (I drink 1 to 1 1/2 liter a day). Then 2 tbsp of extra virgin coconut oil.
I have been in a good mood, smiling and joking all afternoon. I have plenty of energy, my mind is acute and as I write this I’m getting a little tired, but it’s 5:30pm and time to eat, so energy might be depleted. I’ll have a ketogenic ox tail stew, 0 carbs, with some greens.

8pm: I’ll take a half vegan / half whey protein shake with the following extra aminos:

Glycine (1500 mg) (yesterday I took 500mg)
L-Theanine (400mg) (yesterday I took 200mg)
Glutamine (5 gr) (yesterday I took 2.5gr)
Tryptophan (1000mg) (Same as yesterday)
L-Arginine (500mg) (Same as yesterday)
Ornithine (500mg) (Same as yesterday)
Taurine (2000mg) (yesterday I took 1000mg)

Before sleep:

Silexan (80mg) (Lavender extract, reduces anxiety and help sleep, may knock me out when combined with the sleeping pills i take. Maybe that’s good, maybe not. Tell you tomorrow)

1 Like

You ever try the lavender before or first time ?

Nope. First time. It interacts with the clonazepam sleeping pills I’m taking. Might be good, might be bad. I’ll tell you guys tomorrow.

I dont follow what you are trying to accomplish at all. You are taking a LOT of supplements and some of the dosages dont make sense. Ie… Glycine was shown in clinical studies to positively affect deep sleep from in a dosage of 3-5 Grams. Also… you cite 4-5 hours of “deep sleep” . How are you measuring deep sleep? If you are getting 20% “Deep Sleep” (slow wave sleep) , then you are maxed out on deep sleep for someone who has perfectly healthy sleep. GABA , in some trials, showed improvement of strength in weight training and possibly GABA levels in the brain but only when taken before an intense workout. There is argument over whether GABA supplements can cross the blood brain barrier at all. I am seriously struggling with sleep myself so I can sympathize with going down the rabbit hole with supplements. I just found this article which outlines some of the science of sleep. I hope you find it helpful (see below). I am actually going to try some Niacinimde (B3) an hour or so before bed tonight to see if it helps.

I’m currently taking GABA 2 hours before bed. Magnesium Citrinate and Calcium Citrinate an hour before bed. Mirtzapine 7.5mg an hour before bed. Lastly 3 Grams of Glycine right before getting into bed. I get sleep mainly due to the Mirtzapine but I’m trying to fix the root of my sleep problems as well. Check out the article below…

Also… I “think” Silexan is an anti-androgen and there are warnings for PFS users to take it. You may want to double check this statement though as I’m not sure if they mean Lavendar or its extract. Maybe @axolotl can clarify?

I just read 6 articles, 5 mention weak or modest anti-estrogen and anti-androgenic properties, one mention it’s unsubstantiated.
I also eat cruciferous greens high in DIM with similar properties although I wouldn’t take BioResponse 3,3’- Diindolylmethane (BR DIM) supplement as it it 10 times more assimilated by the body than the DIM in food, and I would be taking it at higher doses.

My aim is to improve sleep, reduce stress and clear brain fog as mentioned at the beginning of the experiment.

I’m taking 17 supplements, almost all of which being amino acids, as well as an electrolyte mix of magnesium, potassium, calcium, chloride and carbonate. I take all the vitamin B complex, 50mg each, Vitamin D 11000ui, and an awful lot of Jiaogulan wihich is a neurotransmitter adaptogen among other things.

That may seem like a lot, but it`s nothing if I compare with the numbers of aminos, vitamins and minerals I take when I eat my steak and green vegetables, (49 aminos, vitamins and minerals, many of which well above rdi, up to 1600%, in one meal only). I’ll eat that twice a day !

My protein shake contains 18 amino acids, more than the 17 I’m taking separately. Aminos are just food. They’re not drugs.

Here’s some comparison: Glutamine represent 60% of all aminos present in the muscle. Thats 15 kg of glutamine for an average man. Im taking 5gr, raising my total to 15kg and 5 gr. Glycine represent 10% of all aminos contained in the body. I`m taking a total of 7.5 gr. a day compare to and average of 4 gr. for an average person. I will continue raising the dosage until I reache the desired results I could go on. My food provides me with 9 gr. of Arginine, and I take an extra 1.5gr.

The list may seem impressive, but when people say I`m taking a protein shake and a multivitamin, their list is 3 times as long as mine.

So anyway. Theres a lot of overlaps in what Im taking, some of which I probably take for nothing. GABA does not cross the brain barrier but gets through using the peripheral nervous system. However, I am doing weight lifting and body building so Im using it there as well. In my opinion, considering the 5ari persistently inhibiting the transformation of progesterone into allopregnanolone, and considering allo is the main GABA (A) regulator, its useless to take GABA unless you take a large enough dose of Taurine, which acts as a secondary regulator of GABA (A)

As for how I measure my sleep, well, I`m not standing next to myself all night calculating my REM / deep wave sleep ratio. However, I have a period of uninterrupted sleep which at first would last only 3 hours, and then I would wake up in a stressed out state of insomnia in which I can apparently sleep because I have very superficial dreams but no rest at all.
This has improved in the last 2 months to 5 hours of uninterrupted, dreamless sleep (as far as I can tell) and 3 hours of waking up and tossing, with lots of stress and lots of dreams.
Last night, for the first time ever since 2014, I had 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep in which there was dreams, the alarm rang and I got up.

I took fin for 20 years, became insomniac in the last four, stopped fin, crashed and then became 100% sleepless unless I take benzodiazepine. Sleeping 8 hours uninterrupted is a breakthrough for me.

Sorry for hitting a small nail with a big hammer, but I find it inappropriate for you to criticize what Im doing and it actually makes me angry ( I feel like you should do your stuff and its none of my business, and I should do mine ). However, considering you just did criticize, I will return the favor and point out that taking calcium before going to sleep is a recipe for insomnia. It promotes muscle contraction and should be taken in the day time (if at all) while magnesium is a muscle relaxant and should be taken at dinner (to give you a chance to urinate any extra you may have before going to sleep. Too much magnesium before going to sleep has been compared to an acid trip. I tried it myself and woudn`t recommend it). Those two minerals are important in the chain of transformation from tryptophan to eventually melatonin. Vitamin B and D (of which most of us are deficient, ergo taking 11000 ui per day) are needed as well for this transformation. Vitamin B3 and GABA promote REM and vivid dreams. I tried both and moved them from evening to morning to avoid that, REM vivid dreams being not as restful as deep wave sleep.

Now were all different and Im being very careful before suggesting anything to anyone. In my opinion, youre not taking enough supplements and not at the right time. But what do I know, Im not in your shoes and as I said, our people are so sick, and is so many different ways that I restrain myself from giving advises.

I`m just posting my attempts and the results I get. Anyone can do what they want or nothing at all with it.

1 Like

I`ve read the article as well as a few others on the same topic.

Im balancing my high cortisol levels with DHEA, which is its antagonist. However, it produces extra estrogen which Im balancing with the DIM in the veggies.

Im balancing epinephrine (aka adrenalin) with Tyrosine, which regulates the epinephrine / nor-epinephrine ratio. Im still waiting to receive some DLPA, phenylanine and tyrosine being precursors to the regulators of the nucleus acumbens which contains the dopamine receptors. With those aminos, along with L-Dopa, Im hoping to fight anhedonia and lack of sex drive as well as the tendency to procrastinate (dopamine is the reward neurotransmitter and theres some evidence people like us may have damaged dopamine receptors). Im working at the moment on the GABA (A) receptors using Taurine, and eventually trying to reboot the production of allopregnanolone (by taking pregnanolone). A high fat diet, especially saturated fat (thats the ketogenic diet Im on and the coconut oil Im taking 2-3 times a day) promotes DHT and 5α-reductases and caffeine acts as a catalyst to the 5 alpha-reductase (that`s why against all advise, I did not stop coffee despite having insomnia)

The aminos and food Im taking are not random. But as I said, Im doing the experiment for myself. I`m not suggesting others should do what I do. People should just take what interests them and leave the rest.

Day 3

I had a wonderful night of sleep, 8 hours non stop and no waking up and tossing during the night. I didnt feel drowsy more than usual when I woke up, and I attribute my usual drowsiness to the clonazepam Ive been taking to avoid (at all cost) the symptoms of sleep deprivation.

Yesterday I was patient with people, smiling and singing all day, I was motivated and did my work and workout without procrastinating.

Today I intent to take the same supplements and food as i did yesterday except the following:

Decrease L-Tyrosine to 750mg (yesterday I took 1000mg)
Decrease Pregnanolone to 100mg (yesterday I took 170mg)
Increase Glycine to 2gr (yesterday I took 1.5 gr)

I will continue this for a while, making adjustments as I see fit and then I`ll see if I can decrease the agomelatin and eventually the clonazepam. I hate drugs. The body does not create them naturally and they are intrusive, always doing some harm at the same time they arguably do some good.

At some point, I will have to decrease some dosage as im getting closer to the balance point, but this will be tricky. (Its not like I have some neurotransmitter / neurosteroids meters I can look at on my left arm.)
It would be no surprise at all to me if I crash or start feeling bad sometime within a few days. If I do, i`ll take a break until I feel better then start again with lower doses.

Anyway, I`ll keep you posted.

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Hi @Shellnyce,

I read a study from a few years ago identifying cases of gynocomastia with exposure to lavender oil that reversed on cessation. In vitro testing by the authors did confirm antiandrogenic activity. This was noted in a recent endocrine society update that suggested this is likely an endocrine disruptor. It would of course correlate with the reports of lavender oil alleviating symptoms for the reasons I’ve discussed before, and would for instance explain this recent experience:

I would therefore raise the same personal caution as @awor and myself do regularly regarding other antiandrogenic substances, especially to cases who developed severe symptoms after short term exposure to the substance that led to their persistent health problems.


Hum. I have moderate symptoms, mostly neurological, and I took fin for 20 years. that causes a dilemma…

@Ozeph First off, my apologies for my delivery. I wasn’t trying to criticize and after reading your response, I have much more clarification on your approach. Frankly, your first post seemed daunting with tons of supplements. Whenever I see that many I feel like there is no way to know what is working and what isn’t. However, you have been in this fight for much longer than I realized so you have clearly added things over time. Interestingly enough, I took Fin for 19 years. You are one of the few people on here who has me beat in time taking it. Also interesting is, I too have what I would say are mild symptoms (knock on wood) at this point … having been off for what will be 4 months 12/4. I really only have head pressure/dizzyness and insomnia. I might say I have mild ED but ultimately everything works for a 42-year-old guy.

I “thought” I read that Magnesium should be taken with Calcium 1-2 Hours before bed. I cant say that I have noticed any improvement from taking either just Mag or Mag with Cal… at all. Some nights I skip it all together.

I have also tried Seriphos to see if what I was dealing with was a high cortisol level at night. It didn’t seem to make any difference. The recomended dose of the Seriphos gave me this weird air hunger so I stopped taking it right away.

I’m curious as to if you have ever taken tests for high cortisol, high adrenaline or low melatonin?

I am really intrigued that you have been able to make such a dent in your insomnia so congrats.

As of last night, I slept about 9 hours. I take Mirtazapine as my main sleep agent. However last night I noticed on my Fitbit data a marked increase in REM sleep and only 1 awakening down from 3-4. Normally I’m under 2 hours of REM but last night it shot up nearly 50%. Also… my deep sleep came in just under 2 hours which for me is really good. I woke up once to pee at 12:30pm. When I was only taking natural supplements for sleep (melatonin, unisom, valerian, etc… ) I would get about 40 minutes of deep sleep and REM sleep and have tons of awakenings. Eventually I couldnt sleep at all on that stuff so I had to go the drug route. More recently I have dropped my melatonin intake from 8mg to 3mg last night. I have been reading that Melatonin is ultimately bad, can cause messed up wake cycles in the middle of the night and will eventually desensitize your melatonin receptors. I plan to drop down to 1.5 and then .7mg of melatonin… then stop taking it alltogether.

The FitBit not a medical device but I will say it does offer what I think are relatively good measures of sleep. The start and stop times are dead on. The awakings are somewhat accurate but not always. I do think that its measure of the delta between deep sleep and REM or Light sleep is reasonable too as I can feel the difference and almost guess what my numbers are going to be each morning based on how I feel.

I mentioned to another user here that I was considering starting a sleep log and posting the fitbit data to show changes due to supplements, exercise, and diet. It would also be super interesting to see info from someone like you if you were to wear one of the fitbits with sleep tracking.

Once again… sorry if I came off critical. Your responses were really informative and I actually am going to reread and take into consideration some of your comments. Especially the Magnesium / Calcium timing. I feel like the Niacinimde made a big difference last night. I plan to continue it for a few days to see it it continues to make improvements. I’m wondering if I move my Mg and Cal intake farther away from bedtime if I will get less REM and more Deep.

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Hi Shellnyce

Don’t worry about it. We can rough each others out and then be friends.

By the way I stopped 18/4, 6 days after you. My only remaining sexual symptom is a slight desensitization (I had lower than usual sex drive and slightly reduced erections but it’s fine now)
I also had irritability, which may have been caused by sleep deprivation, and some anhedonia when my sex drive was lower. But this also have passed.
My worst symptom is insomnia It was also the first one to appear in 2014 while I was on fin and the reason why I stopped fin… Since I did the diet, 4 months ago, none of the other neurological symptoms have reappeared except on rare occasions, when eating carbs, but that has been fixed now. (I can eat carbs and have no anxiety)

It does indeed look like we have a very similar, almost identical symptom profile. It seems we’re just fighting insomnia. I my opinion, I don’t think our AR have stopped working but it’s possible some of them are off balance, producing the insomnia (which is normally anxiety related).

I gradually became insomniac starting 4 years ago and I have no doubt both of us will gradually become better and be cured naturally within 4-5 years.

I’m just trying to find ways to deal with the insomnia while waiting.

So anyway. No hard feelings man, let’s share our result since we are so similar in our pfs.

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Day 4

I didn’t take Silexan and I woke up and tossed all night. It was not the stressed out kind of insomnia, and I had sleep in between as well as dreams but it was not comfortable either. This morning I feel somewhat rested despite the night I had, although I’m drowsy as usual because of the sleeping pills.

Taking both clonazepam and Silexan is like taking a double dose of anxiolytic and it knocks me out cold for a good eight hours of sleep. Meanwhile, it completely hides the effects of the other aminos I’m taking so I can’t see what I’m doing wrong and adjust the doses.

I will stop the use of Silexan until I can balance out and get better results with the other aminos. I will also tapper off the benzodiazepine so that when I take Silexan, I don;t get a double dose of anxiolytic.

I will also gradually stop agomelatin as it interracts with melatonin and prevents me from taking any. I don’t think I need agomelatin anyway, I’m not depressive.

So today, I’m stopping a bunch of aminos compared to the previous days.

I will not take 5-HTP, Pregnanolone, L-Arginine, L-Citruline, L-Orinithine for now.
I think it’s the Pregnanolone that disturbed my sleep. I’m stopping the others just to reduce the overall quantities of aminos I’m taking.

I will take those at the same time as yesterday: Dhea, Gluthatione, Glycine (increased to 3gr), L-Theanine (reduced to 200mg), Glutamine, Taurine and Tryptophan (increased to 1500mg).

I will take L-Tyrosine 1000 mg in the morning on an empty stomach, Take L-dopa 350 mg twice a day with food and move GABA to before sleep again, but take only a very small dose (like 50 mg)

I’ve added L-Choline + Inositol 500mg each before lunch to help my liver get rid of all that fat I’m eating.

I will stop all aminos on the week end.

I’ll have my usual diet and keep you posted.

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Day 5

Pretty much the same as yesterday. I woke up and tossed all night but was not stressed out. I had sleep in between as well as dreams but it was not comfortable. This morning I feel rested and have energy. Yesterday, I had plenty of energy all day.

I was aiming at improving sleep, reducing stress and clearing brain fog. I can’t say I’ve improved sleep, probably made it a little worst. Stress is normal. I’m under some tension but I’m motivated and I’m hacking through my work like Brave Heart through a band of English soldiers. There’s no brain fog. I’m focused and efficient.

In the last few days, I’ve become a little more irritable, and quite a lot more aggressive. “Get out of my way and don’t oppose me” kinda aggressive.

It’s good for business though…

So I will have to try and cool down on the aggressiveness.

I will take the same thing tomorrow but stop on Saturday and Sunday. If I get better sleep WITHOUT the extra aminos, well, I’ll be damned. It would mean I get more “assertiveness” to put it well, but still didn’t fix the insomnia that has been plaguing me for 4 years.

It’s great for exercise though. I’m lifting those weights with a vengeance !

I’ll start tapering off agomelatin on Monday. It takes two weeks to flush out of the system so it will take at least 3 weeks before I can start melatonin supplementation (it interacts with agomelatin, competing for the same receptors)

I’ll keep you posted !

Update: No aggressiveness or irritability today. I don’t know why. I had a nice day. Let’s see if I manage to sleep good.

Day 6

I have a complete night of sleep yesterday. looks like Shellnyce was right about Glycine being too low. If accounting to what’s in the protein shake, I took 6 gr total. Some other aminos were increased, like pregnenolone in the morning.

My objective now are more precisely to restart 5ar and allopregnanolone production, as well as supplying everything needed for just about any aspects of the endocrine system.

So I had a peaceful, productive day. I’m as close to normal as I’ve ever been and it turns out I’m in my best physical shape in the last 20-25 years. I never had so much muscle. ! And by the way, it’s not an ego trip. My endocrinologist told me to do body building from the beginning as it reinforces the androgen receptors and produces testosterone. (That’s body building without hormones, drugs, steroids and shit. Only natural stuff)

Day 7

I woke up and turned around a bit, it wasn’t the best night of sleep, nor the worst. Yesterday was another good day, full of energy and symptom free. I had sex with my wife yesterday, nothing abnormal except again for a small desensitization to the genitals. But nothing severe. I will fix that when I receive mt next supplements

No ill side effects. yesterday I had mild anxiety that didn’t last 1 minute after I took two shots of chamomile spray for the throat. It didn’t last more than 30 minutes.

So I continue the experiment. I’m at 300 Pregnenolone, tomorrow I will 400mg. I will also increase B3 drastically, taking 250mg doses instead of 30mg.

I’ll keep you guys posted.

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What do you find the pregnenolone does for you?

Hard to tell. I feel good but with all the stuff I take, which one does that ?
It says it helps brain functions, but most of all, it’s the mother of most hormones, neurotransmitters and neurosteroids. It may do nothing if the chain of transformation is broken, or it may stimulate it into working harder by providing a surplus of Pregnenolone.

Have you tried it ? If so what are the results ?

Any negative results from pregneolone?

No side effects. Tomorrow, I’m increasing Pregnenolone from 300 to 400 mg in the morning, with some B3 and take 250 mg B3 at night.
Then I might have side effects… Or sleep better. We’ll see.

Anyway, I have a cold and I’ve read somewhere in this forum that pfs had a different effect on people with a cold or the flu. People had momentary recoveries due to being sick with a cold.

I’m not a scientist. But are we supposed to believe the damage is permanent except when we have a cold ! And how about people doing some special diet or supplementation and they become better for a while and then crash again. What’s the deal ? The AR suddenly demethylize to celebrate the event and then re-methylize afterward when the party is over so life can go back to it’s miserable normalcy ?

In my opinion, if people can become symptom free for the duration of a cold or from taking some supplementation, even though it doesn’t last, it proves that it’s not permanent.