My Long PFS Journey

Member Stories
#45

Yes. And 5-HTP is better taken without any extra Tryptophan. It can actually be dangerous to supplement with both on high doses.

I also take L-Tyrosine 500mg in the morning, at the same time as 5-HTP 100mg and L-Dopa 350mg.
L-Tyrosine help clear the brain fog and grogginess from the drugs.

I was taking Theanine with my coffee, which acts on GABA, Serotonin and Dopamine together, but with a mild effect. Not as drastic as 5-HTP or L-Dopa (Try taking those 2 twice a day, morning and noon. You’ll feel so confident you’ll be like a king and start flirting with random girl with complete detachment. I’m married with no cheating intention, I just do it as a courtesy to the ladies. Everyone need to feel desired !).

But tomorrow I’ll follow @talkingant advise for sleep hygiene and not take coffee. Have you read his guide ? He did an amazing job.

I would also like to be drug free, pill free. I stopped alcohol and cigarettes eight years ago and I’d rather not touch anything that affects the brain. Looks like I don’t get my wish.

But considering I crashed 8 months ago, I think I’m doing well even though I need benzodiazepine for sleeping.

I really like to see this kind of regimen has changed you after being sick for 9 years and half. It shows that you were stuck in your imbalance, and by taking a global approach your body is finally shifting back into balance. And the similarities between what you’re doing and what I’m doing are surprising. It can’t be coincidence.
It means this kind of regimen can help people who have been sick for a very long time (some go back to almost 20 years)

I’ve been having pain in the balls for a year and a half. Since before I crashed. Reading you reminded me I don’t get it as strong and as often as I used too (before it was constant)

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#46

Ha ha ha ! Yes, that really sucks …

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#47

Excellent body of knowledge. I’m surprised not many PFS’ers already implementing this routine particularly those who are at their wit’s end. I, for one, can attest to the power of this regimen on one’s mental health. I’ve avoided anti-depressants like the plague.

Yes those were 9+ long depressing years! It took me this long because I had mostly approached the problem from a single perspective. I didn’t work to develop the ability to see the issue from multiple aspects before making any big decisions. Thankfully, I’m now much more educated on the subject.

I wish others to not repeat the same mistakes! It can literally save you years in and years out. So back to our little friends Dopamine and Serotonin, finding a delicate balance between the two is crucial! By the way, are you taking L-Dopa in form of a supplement (i.e. herb) or Rx drug if I may ask? and for how long?

I’m currently taking L-Dopa alongside Tyrosine in the morning and Tryptophan before bed (gotta ditch it if I consider 5-HTP). I’ll try to taking them in the noon and gauge my feeling. I’ve grown to wanting more sense of well-being and euphoria after being deprived for years. I’m hungry for more confidence and zest in life!

@talkingant the sleep hygiene is quite intriguing, I certainly need to incorporate that in my regime. Thanks for chiming in bro!

I’m also considering to re-visit L-Theanine, but there were some anectodal reports on another forum that it misses with libido. Can you attest?

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#48

It might at that.In my opinion, It’s just a stress / anxiety aspirin. It doesn’t have 1/4 of the effect of 5-HTP and L-Dopa. (which I take as a mucuna prurien 95% extract)

Try 5-HTP 100mg and L-Dopa 350mg on en empty stomach as soon as you wake up. I put L-Tryrosine 500mg in the mix, as shown above they go together, but experiment without if you feel like it.

If you really want to feel good, try a second set at noon after eating (so it goes in slowly). Great for mood and confidence, not so much for sleep.

Speaking of which, Inusitol works very well.

#49

I just started taking vitamin A 25000 ui (which is a large dose, I will lower to 10000ui once I can find pills in that dosage. It’s a soft gel, can’t split in half). Libido is getting higher ! (despite Theanine 200mg, once or twice a day)

#50

Also I made quite a bit of changes in my regimen. You can look on the first post (Day 1) of Amino Acid For neurological symptoms
It’s a regularly updated version of my regimen as I adjust things.

#51

In the process of refining the recovery process, I’ve introduced some changes to my regimen. I wanted to reduce the number of pills that I’ve to pop everyday! I wanted a more sustainable lifestyle, where I don’t have to carry a bag full of pills and powders with me everywhere!

The changes are:

-Dropped Glutamine, Arginine, Tryptophan, & L carnitine supplements. I’m now focusing on eating foods that are loaded with these amino acids.

-Dropped taking individual doses of DHEA, zinc, iron, vitamin D, fish oil, vitamin K2, vitamin E, & CoQ-10. Instead, I now only take a multi that provides around 70% RDAs of most vitamins and minerals.

I found that Finnish Sauna works wonders. There was this one study about sauna increasing GH and Catecholamines possibly due to dehydration and both are critical to PFS. So I’m now getting 15mins @ 80 degrees Celsius sauna twice or thrice a week. I can literally feel funny sensations in my head when I’m in the sauna. I follow that with a cold shower to ramp up my Thyroid.

However, make sure you drink enough water and get properly hydrated afterwards.

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#52

Hiya,

It’s been almost 4 months since my last update so I thought I’d come back to provide some recent updates. I’ve generally been feeling great and without crashes what so ever. The global approach I used to deal with PFS takes a long time but Boy did it work!

My libido has been great & more steady than ever. Brain fog? Not even once! Strength & cardio output are both great and above all, no signs of depression! Hallelujah!

I had several bloodworks that revealed high normal T level. Vitamin D, Ferritin and all other blood parameters (i.e. kidney, liver, cholestrol, RBC, WBC, Serum Iron… etc.) were in good ranges.

However, my E2 still boarderline low normal (despite rising a bit) so I’m quite careful with ANY estrogen lowering stuff. Balancing T:E ratio is critical to well-being & libido.

The one thing that baffles me though is that I had DHEA tested and it came boarderline low. DHEA has an inverse relationship with Cortisol. I was quite stressed out at the time, both mentally & physically, so that could have had an affect. Anyhow, I’m now supplementing low dose DHEA and it’s helping.

Truth to be told, I’m still ingesting a bunch of supplements every single day. Among these are Mucuna, Amino Acids, Multi-Vitamin, LJ100, among others. My original plan was to drop everything cold turkey but feeling so good on this regime makes me think twice.

So to recap, I believe in order to beat PFS one needs a “Global Approach” and to look at the big pucture. Everything listed below should be checked and treated as needed:

T:E ratio
Complete Hormones Profile
Gut Function (Digestion, SIBO, IBS, Crohn’s disease, Gerd…etc.)
Vitamins D, K, & A
Minerals Deficiencies
Zinc:Copper ratio
Thyroid Function (TSH, FT4, FT3)
Adrenal Function (Cortisol, DHEA)
Sleep issues
Diet (Total calories, %protein, %fat, %carbs)
Fitness level
Ferritin
Liver Function
Kidney Function
Insulin Resistance
Immune Function
Body Temperature
Normalize all blood parameters
State of Mind (Anxiety, Depression, Forgetfulness, ADHD, Anhedonia, OCD)

Yes, it’s pain in the a** but it’s how I did it.

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#53

really appreciate you coming back and updating man! how have you gone about balancing TE ratio? Any tips?

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#54

@Quest

Balancing T:E ratio can be quite frustrating and I personally attest to that! It can make you or break you. Period!

Even dudes who are on TRT have a hard time nailing that sweet spot in which they feel awesome. What’s really perplexing is that low & high E2 symptoms are virtually the same. There were times when I thought my symptoms were caused by high E2 yet repeated bloodworks pointed in the other direction. Conversely, low E2 symtpoms mimic low Testosterone ones with respect to low libido and well-being.

So how do we go about balancing T:E ratio? Well, it really depends. The first logical step is to get a bloodwork done to know where exactly do you stand and one single test won’t tell much. Remember a bloodwork is merely a snapshot at a given time. There are numerous things that could affect the result. Simply put, you would need like 3-4 bloodworks done over say 4 months period to establish a trend and to really understand your standpoint.

Repeated bloodwork may reveal the following:
High/Normal T - High E2
High/Normal T - Low E2
Low T - High/Normal E2
Low T - Low E2

Each of the above probabilities needs a further investigation. For instance, having Low T & High E2 scenario is very common among PFS’ers. In that case, you need to tackle the High E2 through specific approach(s) and this will elevate T while lower E2 to a favorable balance. Some of the approaches include improving liver function, Zinc intake, lower body fat, eliminate Estrogenic foods, and use of “NATURAL” aromatase inhibitors. I emphasize “Natural” as opposed to pharmaceutical ones as they can be very damaging and are not sustainable longterm.

See there are generally 2 types of Men:
High converters (convert much T into E2)
Low converters (convert less T into E2)

What’s more baffling is that different Men function best at different ratios. But as a rule of thumb, it is said that maintaining a high normal T in the 600ish-800ish range and E2 around 22 is optimal for most Men.

Good luck!

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#55

Back for a new update. I’ve been feeling great for those past a few months but I fell back into the chasm of misery these past couple weeks.

I’ve been experiencing the following symptoms:

  • Feel crappy/depression first thing in the morning. Mood usually normalizes later in the day.
  • Lowered libido & post orgasm depression.
  • Nasty night sweats
  • Feeling inadequate & with social anxiety
  • Painful cracking joints (knees, neck, wrists, low back…etc.).
  • Forgetfulness
    -Increased hair thinning. I’m getting many concerning comments about my very thin hair

I knew this was hormonal and I’ve experienced these same symptoms before so I went ahead and got a blood work done.
Results were:
TT: 18.2 nmol/L (range 8-28)
E2: 57 pmol/L!!!

There it was! Very low E2 screaming at my face!!! 57 pmol/L is around 15 pg/mL :frowning:

Goodness! So I started scrutinizing my journal and supplement list and I found the following:

Stinging Nettle Root
beta-Carotene (added 3 weeks ago)
Melatonin

I’ve been taking the above to help with sleep, lower SHBG & elevate Vitamin A level. Apparently, they are also potent at blocking estrogen (mainly E2).

So if any of you is experiencing any of the symptoms I’ve mentioned above. Go get your E2 tested right away. It could save you alot of pain and misery down the road.

I’ll drop them and report back later. Peace

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#56

My E2 is similar (13 vs. your 15) and I’m starting to think that’s a main cause of my issues. That and sky high SHBG / low Free testosterone.

I had issues with Stinging nettle root reducing libido, some say it has some 5ARI properties. I’m not sure I’d try that one. I talked with a hormone replacement doc yesterday and they suggested I not take that.

What is your free test?

What is your SHBG?

edit: I have very similar symptoms FYI

#57

Cut it all off. If people are commenting on it, it must be time. That’s one problem off your list.

#58

@ncsugrad

Sorry about that. Going through this is so devastating :frowning:

I went through numerous useful posts here but I rarely notice anyone paying attention to E2. It can make you or break you. I’m a living proof!

I didn’t test for free Testosterone, only total Testosterone. My SHBG always came mid range. I’ve over 8 blood tests done over 2 years period and my symptoms always correlated with my E2. What’s baffling me is that I never managed to get it to a healthy range. It always comes back either very, very low or borderline low normal. I’m not taking any pharma grade anti aromatase just a bunch of supplements among which a few turn out to be natural anti estrogen :frowning:

Nettle is great for freeing up testosterone if you have high SHBG but it’s also notorious for its E2 lowering effects. This is what’s killing your libido, IMHO, and not DHT. I suspect it would be great for those with high E2 & SHBG problems.

It’s so disheartening to go back to square one when I thought I’m through with all of this.

Try and raise your Testosterone, it should solve your low E2 problem along with many of your existing symptoms.

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#59

This cuts me so deep. Seeing how years of infinite suffering and risky compromises end up this way.

You’re so right, bro. It is time :frowning:

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#60

I got clicking and dry joints all over my body. Went to check my E2 and the results was:
17-Beta OESTRADIOL - 87 pmol/L < 192
Not an expert though… dunno if this range is good?

#61

Your E2 is ~23 pg/mL. That’s like boderline normal. Meaning you’re low normal. Mine is currently at 15, which is extremely low.

I start to feel better around 20 pg/ml. Dry joints resolve for most when E2 is around 25-35 pg/mL.

Are you taking any supplements or anti estrogens?

#62

When I crashed the first time I had no issues with my joints, although I had issues with painful muscles on my legs. When I crashed the second time I started taking supplements Vit d3 and K2 hoping to resolve the flu-like pain in the legs, then shortly after I got the clicking joints all over my body. I though because of vit K2 I got my E2 screwed, I don’t even know what could be the reason for my issue as you say, I am in the lower range, probably we should try to get the TT up and by doing so we can get out E2 up to?

#63

There you go. Both Vit D3 & K2 reduce E2. It’s reported and there’re scientific studies I can share. Sorry.

Unless you’re Vit D deficient, you need to drop these and any other E2 lowering supps. This includes fish oil, green tea, Vit. A or beta-Carotene, Nettle root, high Zinc, Melatonin, SAMe and probably others.

Yes, raising TT will raise E2 along. I’m trying to do so at the moment.

Please share your experiences and report your progress.

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#64

We can keep in touch man! I took vit K2 as I saw in google that this suppose to be the best combination along with vit D3. Google knows everything… Google led me to Saw Palmetto, the funny thing is there are still articles in google that say the SP can raise the Testosterone levels ROLF! I got this feeling that all those studies are done by ignorants. Seriously!