Don’t get me wrong. I’m just responding to this and making a suggestion. I really appreciate everything you are doing and helping bring attention to this. Keep up your work and keep getting better and comment on here as much as you want. I read them all!
Also, nothing wrong with showing the connection of healthy eating, vitamins, and minerals as related to amino acids. That’s helpful, keep it coming.
All sounds great to me guys
I just wanted to find a way of making things straightforward clear and easy to understand without all the comments on comments on top of comments and the scientific blah blah turning things upside down.
We just need to nail down what helps people then people can pick-up on what’s really worth trying.
Also doing things this would make things stand out more as in if we can easily identify 10 guys have tried X and noted that it helps with Y
Or on then the flipside 10 guys have tried X and noted that it did not help at all with anything.
This would save time shuffling through Post after post reading debates / arguments for and against X.
Saving time money and possibly keeping us all safer.
We are all here to help each other and learn how to help ourselves simplicity is key where possible.
Thankyou for picking up on this guys
I’m reading what other people have done over the years with amino acids.
I found this post: Interesting website on neurotransmitter products
Quote: "Master neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine) do not cross the blood brain barrier. The only way to increase central nervous system levels of neurotransmitters is to provide amino acid precursors which cross the blood brain barrier. They will then be synthesized in the brain into neurotransmitters.
If you keep the system topped off with amino acids, will keep things functioning optimally."
Another interresting one: Is Neurotransmitter therapy the key to recovery?
Quote: "I came in and sat down and explained the situation to him. You guys know the story, I told him I don’t feel the sensations or emotions and feel like I am biochemically unable to. I have no desire, love or motivation, emotion, no sexual function, no libido, and am not able to recover no matter what endocrinologist do with my hormone levels. I also told him I have all kind of trouble thinking, concentrating and remembering things. The last few years of my life have been a complete waste. I don’t know who I am anymore because I’ve been anhedonic for so many years.
It could have been any one of us describing our situation. The doctor looked at me and said “You are a classic case of someone who has a neurotransmitter problem. Your neurotransmitters are fucked up”
If this is the key to recovery, it surprises me that doctors haven’t explored this already or that there isn’t a clear step by step method for
working out what people need to take and in what quantity.
Who would be a reputable authority on amino acids?
Quote: “It has been over 20 years since our research began with treatment of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and/or epinephrine deficiencies.”
Quote: "Master neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine) do not cross the blood brain barrier. The only way to increase central nervous system levels of neurotransmitters is to provide amino acid precursors which cross the blood brain barrier. They will then be synthesized in the brain into neurotransmitters.
I read this whole thread (it’s long): Is Neurotransmitter therapy the key to recovery?
@Pete1989 @axolotl @Scott.H @Scotsman @Baz44uk @BrongFogBoy @alteredlife @Mcbbould @Chapman @Go_Faster_Sonic
(It’s a long post, read it only if you don’t mind spending 20 minutes on it)
People use amino acid to balance their neurotransmitters. I’ve read many threads where amino acids were used with success.
People get near 100% recovery and then crashes again. If this happened to you. Please tell us what you did briefly, how you felt good and your crash.
If anyone tried something that made him feel good and never crashed from it, by all mean share with us. This is gold.
It just crashed lately. I was at 95%, took too much aminos and crashed.
I’m on carnivore / ketogenic diet with exercise (Diet and exercise seems to be part of many recovery stories) and I was taking a protein shake in the after noon. I felt better. I started taking more and more of this protein shake, including one before sleep, I increased coconut oil intake and ate less as a result of all those extra calories. My sleep became heavier which I thought was good but I ended up crashing. Yesterday, I ate more meat and veggies, took only 1 protein shake in the morning (It’s pure whey protein isolate. only 1gr carb). My sleep was lighter, I woke up more alert and today I’m feeling better.
People have tried hormone therapy with little results, probiotics with some result (97% of the body’s serotonin is in the guts. Only 3% in the brain. Shocking isn’t it ?. The guts are the second place after the brain with the most neurotransmitters). What seems to have worked the best is the amino acid approach.
I think that all the symptoms comes from unbalanced (or low levels) of neurotransmitters.
And I mean all neurological, physical and sexual symptoms.
Unbalanced neurotransmitters will also unbalance hormones and the guts flora.
As “Master neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine) do not cross the blood brain barrier. The only way to increase neurotransmitters is to provide amino acid precursors which cross the blood brain barrier.”,. So we take aminos and feel better.
But people crash after a while.
What it tells me is that it’s the regulating mechanism of the neurotransmitters that’s not functioning properly.
The neurotransmitters balances and uses each other. On a healthy person, there’s an automatic mechanism that keeps those in check.
I think for us, the neurotransmitters are not regulated anymore, which would explain why we have different symptoms from a set of common symptoms to all pfs sufferers. The symptoms we get depends on which neurotransmitters are out of balance, which may be different for each person.
When some neurotransmitters are depleted, we feel bad. We then take the aminos that will fix it and we feel good again, until that (or those) neurotransmitter are too abundant, have interacted with other neurotransmitters and made them depleted. Then we crash.
(By the way, I say neurotransmitters but I also mean the corresponding neurosteroids, enzymes and hormones)
On Joetz thread, (Is Neurotransmitter therapy the key to recovery?) he says he had to do urine tests every week or so and the resluts would indicate which aminos he should take next. But I don’t think we need blood tests, urine samples and all that shit.
The moment a neurotransmitter is too high or too low, we feel it right away. We just need to recognize how each neurotransmitter feels like when it’s too high or too low, than we can take the appropriate amino acids.
a few weeks ago, I was also taking large quantities of a herbal tea called Jiaogulan (Gynostemma pentaphyllum), like 1.5 liters a day. Google it, it’s an amazing plant. I stopped but will start again.
Amongs its many properties, “Gynostemma protects and enhances the function of the centrals nervous system through its antioxidant properties and its ability to regulate nitric oxide production.” (Nitric oxide = erections)
"The saponins in Gynostemma exert a regulatory effect on the central nervous system, the immune system, the reproductive system and the endocrine system. "
This plant helps people live well over 100 yo. But I’m not sure I want to live that long in this condition.
Nonethelses, if it helps regulates the brain and hormones, it may be beneficial.
I will research other supplements that may potentially help regulate neurotransmiters.
I’ve listed earlier a list of aminos I was going to test. Some of us have decided to join me in testing those.
I can predict the effects it will have on us: some of them will make us feel better for a while, others will make us feel worst and some will do nothing.
I think the key is not to try them all, but to find out which one you need, and if you need to slow down or stop and switch to another one when needed. When we were pre-pfs, we were on autopilot. If we try this approach, we’re now driving with a manual transmission. We need to shift the aminos ourselves as our brain does not regulate anymore.
There’s this story of a guy taking only L-Tyrosine 1500mg once a day fro a year and a half. For all that time he didn’t crash and it looks like he could have gone on doing this the rest of his life and be symptom free:
L-Tyrosine, by the way, is an important amino for all those suffering from brain fog.
So I will repeat the advises on which aminos to take in which case:
• When you are feeling anxious, stressed or tense, take GABA, tryptophan, 5-HTP or taurine.
• When you have low energy, or feel apathetic, take tyrosine.
• When you are having difficulty concentrating or you have memory problems or feel mentally ‘fuzzy’, take tyrosine.
• When you are feeling hypersensitive to noise, lights, touch or pain, take DL-phenylalanine (this is a combination of D- and L- phenylalanine).
• When you are having trouble sleeping, take tryptophan or 5-HTP, GABA, and/or taurine.
• When you are irritable, take tryptophan or 5-HTP.
• To offset cravings, take glutamine or GABA.
• When you are depressed and apathetic, take tyrosine. When depressed, tense and agitated, take 5-HTP or tryptophan.
And I will finish with the 1 million dollar question: Does anyone of you knows of people who have fully recovered and never crashed again ?
Can you send me links so I can try and figure out what happened to them ?
Thank you to you all. I send you my best wishes for your recovery.
Ozeph.
I agree with a lot of this information and can vouch for some of the claims made. I recently switched to a plant based protein shake (as opposed soy or whey) which contains many of the aminos mentioned above. That was 4 days ago. I have to say these last two days have been the best I’ve felt ever since quitting Fin. This is a relief considering I had a pretty terrible day last week. I also want to note that the previous protein I was drinking was soy based - very big mistake that I wont be repeating again. Soy really does mess with your hormones whether you have PFS or not, I don’t recommend to anyone. I also have a bottle of orthinine/arginine but haven’t used it yet since the protein Im using seems to have me at a good baseline. Still continuing the cartinine/tartrate in addition to the protein shake - 5 days a week, 1-2g a day.
I also realize that it has Glycine and Lysine in it, and a couple people have mentioned they have had negative reactions to these AA’s, such as @axolotl. But I’m taking my chances since I’ve read mixed things.
Vega Sport Protein Powder Mocha… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016D9IGES?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf
Hi guys, please remember to take care to not present your therapeutic ideas as definitive advice. I know you’re enthusiastic but what’s being said here is often not scientifically literate nor reflective of the long recorded patient experience here, so asserting you can predict this or that or saying things like benzos will prevent penile damage seen in severe phenotypes is untrue. It’s fine to give your opinions and sharing your results is always a good idea, but please make sure it’s obvious they are your expectations or opinions and review this section of the guidelines on theories and presenting them. Thank you guys and good luck with your therapy attempts.
I just checked the amino acids in this product: very well balanced.
It’s got a large amount of Tyrosine, Tryptophan, Phenylalanine and Cystine which are the building block of the 4 main neurotransmitters, as well as a healthy amount of Glutamine and BCAA (with a large Valine ratio). I wouldn’t worry about Glycine. Some people take it as a sleeping aid. And Lysine is an essential amino acid. You can’t do without it. But what matters the most is it makes you feel better.
This product is way better than the shake I’m taking which is whey protein isolate.
Thanks Axolotl
So here it is:
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and all the opinions I’m expressing should not be considered medical advice. You should seek appropriate counsel for your own health situation.
And to express my opinion to the fullest: Some scientists and doctors are responsible for our condition. They invented and prescribed the pill to us. They don’t know how to cure the mess we’re in, nor do they even acknowledge their responsibility in the disease. They continue to sell the pill and to put a cure on the market would be admitting there’s a problem with the pill.
I’m aware that some independent research is being done on the subject. But before they find a cure, do all the testing and the FDA approves it, we may have to wait for years if not decades. (providing Merks does not interfere in the process, let’s not be naive)
It is my opinion, as an ordinary person, that we’re on our own and that our best option is sharing the information between us as to what worked for us and what didn’t. I may be wrong, but that’s what I believe.
This is my organic acids tests from great plains labs which includes an amino acids screen. Hope you guys find this helpful.
Thanks WhatHaveIDone
On the 13 amino acids, half are below normal range, 5 are low but within range and only 2 are high, although still within range.
In my opinion, it puts in evidence there’s an imbalance in amino acids. A normal, healthy person would have all 13 within range.
I think some of the possible causes could bee a decrease in the ability to absorb the aminos you’re ingesting. That problem could either be in the enzymatic breakdown of protein in the stomach or be somewhere in the guts, for example an imbalance in the gut’s flora, or in the guts neurotransmitters or neurons. Or the problem could lye in the ability to convert amino acids into their forerunners which I would believe is the main reason.
This is all just speculation.
I will look at the specific aminos and if you don’t mind, may I ask you a few questions about your symptoms after I took a closer look at your test results ?
Thank you for your help.
Ozeph
Of course, anything to help. we all known fin destroyed our gut, so its a question of the chicken or the egg… ?
@propecia123 mentioned Pine Pollen Powder in a different thread, and after reading up on it and I’m thoroughly intrigued. It contains several aminos and seems safe. What are your guys’ thoughts?
https://www.surthrival.com/blogs/news/pine-pollen-benefits
“Pine Pollen can help to reduce size and regulate the prostate, when dealing with one that is enlarged. Pine Pollen’s adaptogenic effects come into play here, as using it will reduce the size of a prostate that is enlarged, and increase its size or prevent atrophy if it’s too small. Pine Pollen also contains a steroid that is active against breast and prostate cancer. It inhibits and halts cancer cell growth and multiplication.”
That’s excellent. I would definitely consider it for prostate problem. I need to learn more about it.
Considering fin user may end up with prostate problems, in my opinion this is a supplement worth remembering.
Jiaogulan (Gynostemma pentaphyllum) has similar adaptogen properties, and is said to fights off lung, liver and prostate cancer and can balance the brain chemistry as well as blood sugar and cholesterol… I’m drinking 1.5 liter a day of that tea (In China, they would say I will live to be 120 yo).
I don’t know if it works, I don’t think it fixes enlarged or atrophied prostate, but considering I live in Thailand and it’s cheap and abundant here, I’ll continue to take it. At least it doesn’t harm.
I will suggest Pine pollen to my friend who an enlarged prostate.
In my opinion, some specific aminos are to be taken for specific symptoms. If taken randomly, you may end elevating something that is already too high or decreasing something that is almost depleted.
This is why, for my part, I’m going to avoid amino acid mixes. Instead, I bought each interesting ones separately so I can take only those needed and increase or decrease the dosage separately.
I also believe in taking them intermittently, as to not create a dependence or weaken the conversion mechanism that normally produce that specific amino. My idea is to reboot my system.
Obviously, with all the meat I’m eating, I get a lot of amino acids in uncontrolled proportions. I will get uncontrolled variables from my food, and try to get more control over my supplements.
I’ll keep you posted as to the results.
Thats a good point and I have been making sure to maintain a healthy balance as well, i.e. supplementing on cycles and also substituting products where needed to make sure I’m not over consuming certain aminos.
@Ozeph, I don’t know how many of these you have looked up. Check this one out.
3-Methyl-2-oxovaleric acid is an abnormal metabolite that arises from the incomplete breakdown of branched-chain amino acids. 3-Methyl-2-oxovaleric acid is a neurotoxin, an acidogen, and a metabotoxin.
Branched chain amino acids are Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. These are essential acids. If there is a problem with them, then I’m going say that our bodies are most likely not synthesizing them properly for what ever reason. We need more people on here to get amino acid testing done.
@WhatHaveIDone, did you get my pm?
I’m going to ask this again. If you haven’t done one, get an amino acid plasma test done and post your results like @WhatHaveIDone did. That way we can share and compare, preferably before you start taking any amino acid supplements, so it can be a true test results.
