Endocrine Disruptors: The bigger picture

[awor]

@lbv

You’re right, the name needs to be changed Post Androgenic Syndrome, those posts about fungal cream and soy drugs today really makes you realize the vast anti-androgen products out there. It still doesn’t cover all things because anti-estrogen stuff can still cause problems though.

At the end of the day, we are probably talking about endocrine disruptors. A term could thereby be something like Post Endocrine Disruption Syndrome (PEDS).

Abdulmaged Traish from BU, who is a strong supporter of our cause, recently wrote this article where he is specifically talking about endocrine disruption:

The Post-finasteride Syndrome: Clinical Manifestation of Drug-Induced...

Incidentally, @axolotl and myself had a call with him yesterday, and he said that he believes that many or even any substance that interrupts the endocrine system can cause what we call the Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS). He believes that PFS, PSSD, PAS, etc. are all the same underlying biological problem. Prof. Traish is a basic scientist in the area of steroid biochemistry and steroid receptor signaling, has published more papers than many in his field, and knows what he is talking about.

EDC’s have been a hot topic for many years now (also related to BPA’s / plastics and other environmental factors). One such landmark article is this one, where the epigenetic effect of endocrine disruptors is also discussed:

Epigenetics meets endocrinology

The problem is pretty clear to smart people like Prof. Traish. It is just that the rest of the world must wake up to this now.

From a strategic point of view, we as a community must now focus on the bigger picture and stop segmenting ourselves by drugs. We should all come together in one place, and not split up our energy, efforts and visibility by running forums per substance, therapeutic approach (science vs. “home brew”) and language. By doing so, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I believe that the place where we should all reunite is here, simply because we have the best infrastructure and domain visibility. This is not a Awor, Axo or anyone else forum, propeciahelp is a community platform and project, where anyone can participate and can join the team.

Second, we have to better characterize our communities. Our survey project is aimed at achieving this, outlined here:

https://www.propeciahelp.com/blog/research/genetic-community-research-project/

Third, once we collect 23andMe raw data files from as many people as possible (see above), we will then hopefully find some genetic markers which predict our susceptibility to get this syndrome. Prof. Traish said that this would be a landmark achievement, and would cause the world to listen up. Such a finding could help us get significant government funding.

Our ultimate goal is to create a consortium of scientists from various fields, which will work on our problem. Other diseases have this too. The results of our community project will be very helpful in forming such a consortium. Therefore, please support this project through your participation. If you have not already done so, please read the announcement.

[Tomas]

Thank you guys for making this possible.

[Greek]

Amazing work. Thankyou.

[lbv]

The endocrine stuff makes sense, that’s what all hormone changing drugs have in common I guess. I really wonder how many people have had their lives ruined by something as simple as BPA plastics. Yeah it’s unlikely but definitely possible.

[holyhead]

Wow amazing news…This could give people on the edge hope to hang on for possible help one day…

[Dubya_B]

No doubt about it! I went over ten years believing I was alone in the world with this problem. At the point of being so fed-up and hopeless that the only options left were to end it all or become a recluse.

Then found out, through this site, that there were some fine gentlemen working towards a solution. The wait has been excruciating, but at least now there is a reason to hang on and fight because of those in our community who are moving forward, either by actively promoting research, or by simply supporting it.

[gents93]

From a personal standpoint, PEDS does not seem like a suitable name. When doctors refer to Endocrine Disruptors they’re referring to compounds, chemicals, things of that nature that have the ability to alter the hormone production in a negative manner whether it be at the hypothalamic, pituitary level, or gonads. Yeah, you could argue finasteride does the same thing since it lowers DHT and may cause estrogenic sides. But what we are referring to is a literal endocrine shut down, to the point where there is hormone but no signaling or gene activation. This is not what doctors are talking about and using the term endocrine disruption will only get the two confused since there are VAST differences between them. We should stay away from that term IMO. But shit, what do I know.

[lbv]

Glyphosate is in a lot of wheat products and it’s an endocrine disruptor and can cause cancer

Monsanto Is Scrambling To Bury This Breaking Story - Don't Let This Go Unshared!

[Northern_Star]

@awor

Our ultimate goal is to create a consortium of scientists from various fields, which will work on our problem. Other diseases have this too. The results of our community project will be very helpful in forming such a consortium. Therefore, please support this project through your participation. If you have not already done so, please read the announcement.

That here really is key. I hope everyone is busy uploading their data/purchasing the test, because that is something pretty much everyone here can help with. So there are no excuses and there is noone else to blame than us if we cannot provide sufficient data to perform a meaningful analysis. This could help to skyrocket the acceptance of our problem and the resources available to us. So let’s pick up the ball and run with it!

[bryce54]

thanks awor for this and always bringing more attention to the problem. thanks mew for the forum. your guy’s work is revolutionary for us. without you fellas, we would still be arguing, alone, on the internet, with no attention in sight.

[lbv]

A problem with referring to this problem as endocrine disruptors is that there are too many of them and a lot aren’t powerful enough to cause these symptoms. Beer is relatively harmless endocrine disruptor for example. We’ve all been subjected to these little things altering hormones our entire life but it took something powerful like finasteride to really cause problems.

[noprop]

Of course! It is known in Europe. It was discussed whether Glypho should be forbidden or prolonged in Germany. It was prolonged.

[awor]

@noprop

It was discussed whether Glypho should be forbidden or prolonged in Germany. It was prolonged.

A nice point in case that money is often more powerful than scientific evidence, unfortunately.

[Demon]

@axolotl, @Mew “that many or even any substance that interrupts the endocrine system can cause what we call the Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS). He believes that PFS, PSSD, PAS, etc. are all the same underlying biological problem.” I and @gents93,@joey10,@wlan reenter? We different substances!

[Demon]

This Syndrome makes no more sense to call it PFS (Post-Finasteride Syndrome). It comes not only from Finasteride but from multiple substances: Minoxidil, Saw Palmetto, Oxerutina, Spironolattone, Soya, Cardio Mariano, Drastic Diet, Zinc, Acai Berry, now also Aspirin and who knows what other substances! Is not it more correct to find a more appropriate name for this condition? Do you have any ideas?

[Greek]

@Demon, we agree with you. Renaming is on the list of things to do.

We don’t want anyone to feel discouraged by the name we have at the top of the page.

[Greek]

By the way @Demon it’s good to see you posting. I missed you these past few days.