fwiw, a urologist I saw said that prostate size itself has nothing to do with sexual functioning.
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DHT increase prostate size and if prostate is shrinking means the substance have DHT lowering properties and is probably 5ar inhibitor.
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I can confirm that I am taking yellow maka, in 10-15g doses. I wasn’t sure at first because it wasn’t specified but the color is definitely cream like. Like I said before, I tried maca in lower dosages and felt no benefit. The recommended dose is like 0.5-3grams so it’s possible a lot of people tried Maca but never realized it’s true potency…
Before, if I climaxed twice, it would take me at least 4 days to recover, and now I’ve done that 4-5 days in a row. I am almost developing a porn addiction to test this lol. The difference is inordinate and I am still feeling interested in resuming my testing this morning.
Share your results.
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Yes, numbness and loss of sensitivity went away on it’s own after like 8-16 months so I can’t contribute it to Maca. My libido didn’t return though without Maca.
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How long have you been on it now, has impact faded at all?
It’s been explored by PFS patients many times before. The empirical conclusion is that some got better (usually temporarily) only to then get worse, sometimes dramatically so. Some see no change to their symptoms. Very few experienced lasting positive benefits. The commonality between the substances that bring patients to this website is their antiandrogenic action. A pertinent comment on this is here
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Yeah, I myself got back on my drug and it only temporarily made me better. Obviously not all anti androgens behave the same, just as not all pro-androgens behave the same. With St. John’s Wort it’s gave me windows of improment consistently for a month now. But you also have to admit that the vast majority of recoveries on this forum contain anti-androgens of some type, and usually a pro-androgen supplement as well. And how many people have claimed improvements from something like Zinc? Or Soya? I think the combination of anti-androgens and pro-androgens is vital to recovery.
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Could you compile this “vast majority of recoveries” here so people can further scrutinise this claim? I don’t mean this dismissively, I’m curious to see them in one spot so it’s easier to evaluate. I had a look at some of this thread Success Stories Compilation and wasn’t convinced from that. I must state that I’m highly sceptical of recovery stories posted by people with very little or no previous forum history, for obvious reasons.
But that is just so incredibly dangerous for many patients to even tentatively try. It’s important to remember that PFS patients present heterogeneously and it’s well recognised now that there is a scale of symptomatic variability and severity. It’s also regularly observed that those who present with a more severe phenotype are more vulnerable to further endocrine disruption. The 9th and 11th post in that “success stories” thread are from @Rb26dett, who wrote at the time
He was like many here, who have mild to moderate PFS in a range of symptomatic domains. He wanted to hear “positive” posts and to read about the substances that people claim have cured them of this disease. Since then, he used an antiandrogen, tribulus, in hopes of resolving his symptoms. This is what he says about that trial
He’s also tried a pro-androgen. This is his experience
What happened to Matthew Johnson, who committed suicide shortly after reporting improvement from the use of antiandrogen resveratrol, should be read here also
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I don’t see how this is relevant as Maca isn’t an androgen and has no known effect on steroids
Data showed that compared with placebo Maca had no effect on any of the hormones studied nor did the hormones show any changes over time. Multiple regression analysis showed that serum testosterone levels were not affected by treatment with Maca at any of the times studied (P, not significant). In conclusion, treatment with Maca does not affect serum reproductive hormone levels.
Lepidium meyenii (Maca) does not exert direct androgenic activities
I’ve done my bloodwork and my steroid levels were perfect with all the fin side effects.
The mechanism of action of macamides isn’t known at this point.
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I was replying to the post I quoted, it wasn’t necessarily relevant to maca, a substance I haven’t properly researched yet so do not want to comment on.
Rhodoila lowers cortisol…
Cortisol is catabolic to cellular proteins. Hence, elevated cortisol degrades androgen receptors, increases the aromatase and inflammation and can lead to many issues in the body.
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That’s a good find!
Well, let’s look at some of the most common components of recoveries:
Fasting/ low carb diet = anti androgenic. Fasting opens the AMPK pathway which downregulates androgen receptors. Low Carb diets could do a similar thing especially long term. CDnutz protocol was originally about fasting for a week, followed by strict paleo diet and cycling T-boosting herbs/ R-andro.
The quantity of different herbs people recover from is vast. Tribulus, St John’s, maca, tongkat ali, Ive even seen people attribute their recovery to Ashwaganda. It’s possible that most herbs contain small amounts of anti androgenic beta-sitoristal in the aerial parts that don’t get filtered out in combination with the pro-androgenic parts, like protodioscin.
Even long nofaps can be anti androgenic, I remember before PFS I did 30 day nofap and entered a pretty bad flatline, no libido, anhedonia. I’ve only achieved 14 days nofap with PFS but I felt slightly better when I reached the later days. On the other hand, fapping like 4 times a day can also be anti androgenic and some users here have experienced improvements with doing that…
The only thing that doesn’t align with this is hormone therapy, but in the hormone therapies I’ve tried (topical dht, testosterone) it hasn’t done shit.
I think it would be harder to find a recovery that DOESNT involve anti androgenic stuff + pro-androgenic stuff. https://www.reddit.com/r/PostFinSyndrome/comments/hszdt2/propeciahelp_pfs_recovery_compilation/ Here’s a recovery compilation, most usually include low carb diets, fasting, herbs, etc. and pro-androgenic things like intense exercise and herbs/steroids, etc.
Herb supplements can be pro-androgenic and anti-androgenic. That’s why they’re kinda risky and not really used in medicine, it’s all dependent on the proportions of ingredients they include.
Yeah most of this is risky. So was getting on these drugs in the first place. I myself haven’t ever noticed a permanent lowering of my baseline state, but I know it can happen.
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Please stop narrowing it down to pro and anti androgen terminology. You putting it in a way it looks like there is no other properties exist of those substances and trying to oversimplify everything.
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Sorry, but this is what I truly believe: …The effects these herbs, lifestyle changes, etc have on our ANDROGENIC SYSTEM, the receptors, the serum hormone levels, 5/alpha reductase, and other enzymes, the problem areas of PFS, (sorry, the gut is very clearly a symptom of PFS and not the cause) is the same or very similar.
I’m not “over simplifying” anything, obviously Zinc, Soya, Fasting, Herbs, are going to have different effects on our body, but in regards to the effects on our androgenic system I do believe what they are doing is the same or similar.
The only except I could see is how they’re applied, for instance if you’re applying a topical anti androgen VS taking one in systemically… I don’t think topical anti androgens will do anything in that case.
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Someone had PFS and got cured by some common herb like ashwagandha used by billions of people. What a joke.
Are you kidding? You think unable to get aroused more than once very 1-2 weeks is a severe condition. Thats a joke. Im not even the worst in this forum and I havent been aroused in 2,5 years. On top of that I have to combat every day to get some stools out of my system because gut motility has stopped completely and the digestion system is not digesting anything. Also my whole body skin sensitivity and of course genital sensitivity has been destroied entirely. All the feelings are missing. Sleep hasnt been ok for 2 years. Joints are hurting very often making the movement painfull from time to time. Alcohol doesnt have any effect on me. Also fatique is presense 24/7. Thats some of the summary. And as I said, Im not even the most severe case here. Here are people that are completely disabled from every day functions. And you really think that not getting aroused in 1-2 weeks is a severe condition, really?
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5ar has many more functions than its effect on the androgen system. It also plays a role in balancing GABA and Glutamate in the brain (via allopregnanolone) which I believe is why many have insomnia and some even have spasm for lack of GABA.
Messing up 5ar also messes 3a-HSD which has a multitude of non sexual functions all over the body.
I think what we have is a systemic imbalance in many hormones, enzymes, neurotransmitters, neurosteroids and plenty of other stuff influencing all kind of cell activities. Many unrelated to the sexual hormones or reproductive system; like dry skin, deregulated body temperature, burning eyes and yes, digestion (which have to do with the vagus nerve, serotonin and the acetyl-Choline complex from what I understand.)
I also agree with your point about the AR and the androgens, but there’s a lot more to it. And there’s also more to fasting and low carbs diet.
I reckon Pfs and other diseases with similar effects people have on this forum are, at least in part if not completely, due to damage done to our epigenome.
Fasting or going low carbs (zero carbs), activate sirtuins protein that can repair epigenetic damage and regulated the de-metylase enzyme. Fasting and being ketogenic produces BetaHydroxyButyrate which acts in synergy with those sirtuins in repairing the epigenome. (I have citations for this but I’m typing on my phone so if anyone is interested I’ll provide them)
I’ve done it for two years, along with weight lifting, and I look younger, have evidence of epigenetic repairs and most of my pfs symptoms are gone. I crashed 27 months ago.
I started the success story thread to give us hope, but also to find out the commonalities. Low carbs diet, fasting and exercise are some of them.
This disease is definitely sticky but I believe there are natural ways to fix a natural reaction our body had to the drugs we took (and some here didn’t even took drugs). Our epigenome is meant to change based on what happens is our environment, polution, chemicals and even stressful relationship. It has mechanism to fix itself in nature, but this is normally done when the body is under acute stress: cold, heat, fasting, exercising with depleted glycogen etc… Things that were happening on a regular basis 20000 years ago but don’t anymore in our opulent society unless we choose to do it.
I believe there’s hope.
I wish you all the best.
Ozeph
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Dry skin isn’t nontelated to the sexual system. Androgen receptors in fibroblasts produce collagen and and hylauronic acid among other things which build your skin and moisture barrier. Digestion is also related to testosterone and even your shits will smell different depending on hormones and androgen action… many of those things you said actually ARE related to androgen receptors…
I understand 5ar does a lot but I think it’s all connected to the androgen system.
I know all about autophagy and have fasted for weeks on end it doesn’t do shit.
I know I’m somplyiifying things but I think my method of classifying anti androgens and pro androgens is a good start. Say what you want but I do believe the reason fasting and strict diet in combination with weightlifting is because fasting and keto diet are anti androgens that are influencing the damaged 5-ar system and somehow temporarily undoing the effects of PFS, while the weightlifting is pro androgen and doing so while the PFS effects are temporarily allieviated can cause neuroplasty in cells.
I’m also doing well but instead of fasting and diet I’m doing St. John’s wort, potent antiandrogen herb. Sometimes it make my balls hurt but after 5-8 hours of dosing my PFS gets alleviated and when I lift with Creatine the prohormone action makes me even better… I bet doing this for months could lead to neuroplasty in cells or something and recover.
Cold showers are anti androgenic, when at a cold beach your penis goes flaccid and you don’t have libido, fasting for long periods of time and keto diet are also anti androgens, stressful things like that are anti androgenic, yes they have other actions which are healthy but I think the reason they can alleviate PFS is because they’re anti androgenic
I’m not arguing I’m glad we’re debating and People could be learning from our discussion but I don’t think it was the healing enzymes or autophagy that healed you, it was the balance of anti androgen and pro androgen activity.
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I have libido at the beach looking at the pretty girls while my dick has shrunk because of the cold !
But you have the right to have your opinion and so does every one. We’re not scientists anyway, we’re just all searching desperatly for a solution.
Thanks to the internet, it’s amazing what we can find !
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