What's the verdict on sodium butyrate, calcium butyrate, and magnesium butyrate?

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#1

I’m trying to assess which butyrate supplement could be a reasonably safe option for PFSers.

I’ve seen one user had horrible experiences with sodium butyrate (@Papasmurf). And in the famed “PFS paper”, sodium butyrate is described as having anti-androgenic properties.

There are also some that have used sodium butyrate with success, like @MOONCHILD, but over time he seemed to have switched to calcium/magnesium butyrate. There are others that have used cal/mag butyrate and seen benefits. Here and here. (@noniman / @Lostinaustin)

Does mag/cal-butyrate have similar effects on the AR as sodium butyrate? Any links to research papers or personal experiences would be appreciated.

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#2

A while ago now I wanted to try daily use of Ghee, it’s ingrediants include (Ethyl Butyrate 0.01%). I thought it has helped some people, fat helps with hormone production and they say it tastes nice.

I hated the taste and much preferred butter or olive oil, especially after it ruined the taste of my steak. I had to stop using this disgusting fat or supplement if some other way.

My solution was to add the ghee to hot water in a cup, once fully melted and cool enough to drink, I’d down it as fast as possible, followed by something to get rid of disgusting taste.

I’d notice within the hour sudden worsening of all symptoms and full on diarrhoea. The worse of the negative symptoms passed within the day and the symptoms were completely back to baseline within a few days

I’m convinced this horrible experience was because of the large quantities of liquid fat, without solid food. If I was to try it again, I would have multiple small Ghee/water drinks alongside solid food or would butyrate supplement directly without the oil.

I now have calcium/magnesium butyrate and only took it for a few weeks alongside food. I didn’t notice any change at all, but probably didn’t take take it long enough.

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#3

I first started (cal/mag)using and noticed improvements all around. I was quite impressed , then those improvements dwindled a bit. So I took a break then started again and noticed some more improvements.
I’m trying to find a good dose. I recommend taking prebiotics and fiber with it. People on another forum said intermittent fasting helps too
I also found a study on reddit saying supplemental butyrate can kill off bacteria that produces butyrate but I think proved this isn’t a fact at least for me, cause when I stopped I could still tell by the way my poops smelled that butyrate was still working .
I think it has been very beneficial at times and not so much at others. Cycling might be key.
Haven’t tried sodium butyrate. I can’t see it being any different.

Edit. Stopped taking cal mag butyrate, could have possibly made me worse. Pretty sure I’ve developed worsening nerve disorders, waking up with numb tingling swollen arms and hands.
Problem seems to be starting in the armpits not allowing blood flow to the rest of my arms.
Maybe carpal tunnel.

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#4

Wondering the same thing about mag/cal being safer

#5

I think that milder cases may benefit from the use of some substances, but the most serious ones only risk increasing the damage, up to the point of unbelievable. If your problems are just ED and low libido, maybe a little depression, then you can try, but if you have more serious symptoms, like loss of muscle pump after training, dry skin, shrinking, etc … it may be dangerous. I speak from experience. I ruined my life with tribulus terrestris, now I have dyskinesia, loss of connective tissue, dementia and motor coordination problems. Be very careful, please.

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#6

I was taking sodium butyrate a few weeks ago. I took 4 or 5 capsules. Libido was bigger and it’s still bigger though not like I was taking butyrate. I took another capsule today. We’ll see what happens next.

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#7

I ordered sodium buyrate but now am hesitant. Anyone else care to share their experience?

#8

bump, also just ordered Butryate.

Any recent experiences?

#9

Are you still there mate? Sodium butyrate is said to lower inflammation and raise estrogen. I wonder if that’s why it bolstered your libido. Do you have a bloodwork?

#10

Someone crashed from sodium butyrate. Someone else benefited from it

Didn’t do anything for me

Like everything else, it just depends

#11

Spot on. It really depends. Getting microbiome analysis would tell someone whether butyrate is beneficial or detrimental. I used sodium butyrate but it gave me hypoglycemia as well as diarrhea so I stopped it. Fast-forward; 3 months later I had microbiome analysis and it turned out that I have more bacterial families that produce butyrate than healthy average. This means more butyrate would be bad. There’s also acecate and propionate.

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#12

Depends how sensitive you are and how severe your PFS is. Papasmurf had a horrible crash from it.

I’m personally going the natural route, other HDCAi’s include:

  • Cooked and then cooled potatoes, cold potatoes, ferments in stomach to produce butyrate,
  • Oats, ferments in stomach to produce butyrate
  • Raw Garlic,
  • Chamomile tea,
  • Sulforaphane, Broccoli, Broccoli sprouts and other cruciferous vegetables,
  • Celary,
  • Ashwagandha,
  • NAC,
  • Cacoa & Dark chocolate
#13

i kind of disagree with that gut analysis part

not that i know for sure

but i think the bad symptoms are due to certain genes being silenced and that interfering with the sodium butyrate mechanism somewhere

#14

Possibilities are infinite. My opinion only stems from the speculation that those with enough butyrate producing microbes may not benefit from more butyrate in supplement form. I’d suggest to feed the bacteria with certain prebiotics (e.g resistant starch) so that they could produce butyrate on their own. I’m on this path and will share my findings later.
@lakehouse

#15

Keep this in mind with butyrate too, also zinc for that matter.

Intestinal Permeability in Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Pathogenesis, Clinical Evaluation, and Therapy of Leaky Gut

Permeability-Oriented Therapies

butyrate, zinc, and probiotics have the strongest evidence

Zinc supplementation tightens “leaky gut” in Crohn’s disease

#16

there are people with low testosterone that dont benefit from testosterone

we’ve seen this like a thousand times on here

the best theory is the gene disruption, not all the gut stuff which is likely downstream

#17

Testosterone isn’t the sole parameter to one’s recovery. Raising T through clomid, most herbs, AIs, etc. did nothing but make me 10X worse. However, combining direct T shots + Corticosteroid was a game-changer in the distant past. Now that out of the way, gut remains to be the best marker for recovery in my healing journey. I said this before and will say it again, gut and hormones/body systems are bidirectional.

Interestingly, getting perfect stools (bristol score 3-4) consistently and having ZERO GI symptoms always corroborated with remissions in my n=1 anecdote.

Get well soon @lakehouse :pray:t3:

#18

I took a tiny grains of sand amount of SB the other night and BHB . The last couple days I’ve felt great. Now tho. Now I am.very worried for when I come down and crash. After reading everyone’s experience. This stuff is STRONG. It’s absolute increased my T because I’ve been masturbating more and feeling better. And having sex after being so depressed I wanted to die. But I KNOW a crash is soon and I’m very very worried for how it’s going to be.

I’m having major anxiety right now

#19

Man don’t stress yourself over this.

If I’m not wrong, @MOONCHILD said BHB did wonders for him.

Can I ask you what improvements you feel?

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#20

Well currently I’m having major anxiety and a panic attack so not too great at the moment

But

Libido
Arousal
Cognition
Energy
Gut issues
Mood

All improved