Complete Recovery So far

Forwardsnotbackwards · August 19, 2020, 11:13am

Thanks for posting this recovery story .

They are important for us to hear …

Trazohell · August 19, 2020, 3:45pm

Before PSSD/PFS I just needed a teaspoon of Maca and was horny as fuck, now nearly resistent.

Livid171 · August 19, 2020, 4:02pm

Maca, I believe can be classified as an adaptogen. If you read my story (also yesterday), I credit Rhodiola as the primary benefactor to my recovery. Read up on adaptogens if you haven’t. I can assure you my PFS was the real deal. I’ve been back to normal for almost two years.

It’s important to add: you can’t just take something everyday. I took Rhodiola for years and did not recover. It wasn’t until I cycled it that after a few months I started feeling back to normal.

Zonz · August 19, 2020, 3:59pm

People always sleep on anti androgens on this forum especially anti androgen herbs! It seems like theyre a vital part in recovery. They only pay attention to pro androgen stuff when you need both I think.

eskimojoe · August 19, 2020, 6:35pm

libido isnt my issue, its ed…not sure if the recoveries here have improved in that respect

Cooper · August 20, 2020, 12:30am

Did you have erect size loss or numb orgasm problems? If so, did they recover fully? Please give more details.

BibFortuna · August 20, 2020, 4:09am

fwiw, a urologist I saw said that prostate size itself has nothing to do with sexual functioning.

slick1 · August 20, 2020, 6:35am

DHT increase prostate size and if prostate is shrinking means the substance have DHT lowering properties and is probably 5ar inhibitor.

Noukon · August 20, 2020, 7:35am

I can confirm that I am taking yellow maka, in 10-15g doses. I wasn’t sure at first because it wasn’t specified but the color is definitely cream like. Like I said before, I tried maca in lower dosages and felt no benefit. The recommended dose is like 0.5-3grams so it’s possible a lot of people tried Maca but never realized it’s true potency…

Before, if I climaxed twice, it would take me at least 4 days to recover, and now I’ve done that 4-5 days in a row. I am almost developing a porn addiction to test this lol. The difference is inordinate and I am still feeling interested in resuming my testing this morning.

Share your results.

Noukon · August 20, 2020, 8:07am

Yes, numbness and loss of sensitivity went away on it’s own after like 8-16 months so I can’t contribute it to Maca. My libido didn’t return though without Maca.

UKContributor · August 21, 2020, 5:47am

How long have you been on it now, has impact faded at all?

Tzinkman · August 21, 2020, 1:33pm

It’s been explored by PFS patients many times before. The empirical conclusion is that some got better (usually temporarily) only to then get worse, sometimes dramatically so. Some see no change to their symptoms. Very few experienced lasting positive benefits. The commonality between the substances that bring patients to this website is their antiandrogenic action. A pertinent comment on this is here

Has anyone tried Saw Palmetto or fin after developing pfs?

It’s a very interesting observation and one going back over a decade that people with PFS can sometimes have their symptoms improve temporarily or, more rarely, permanently with 5 alpha reductase inhibitors or substances with anti androgenic properties. They can also dramatically worsen PFS and introduce a much more severe condition. People have claimed improvement by turmeric, zinc, progesterone, finasteride (in the case of an accutane case, which is likely the same condition), numerous fruits/extracts with 5ari properties. Basically most antiandrogenic substances. Another clear observation is a lot of people feel nothing or worsen with the administration of androgens. My testosterone level near doubled over the months following my crash, over which time I experienced significant erosion of androgenic tissues, which doesn’t make sense prima facie.

For example, since I wrote the above, @Ocguy posted the following in another topic:

problem is I can’t handle testosterone, even though it’s at the bottom range…Progesterone helps some I get sparks of libido but overall baseline is down another notch

When you talk of 5ar receptors, this is a bit off. The 5-alpha reductases are a family of enzymes, and although there are some direct receptor interactions (including direct modulation of the d2 dopamine receptor in the brain by the enzyme, which is interesting in itself), they don’t have a specific receptor. Instead, they’re involved in steroid reduction of androgens to lots of metabolites and other things such as metabolising cortisol for excretion and synthesis of bile acid. What was theorised and has now been proven is that the androgen receptor is over-expressing in PFS (2x vs control tissue), and there are numerous studies in hormone refectory cancers and straight animal modelling that show that AR overexpression leads to functional insensitivity and even cytotoxicity upon exposure to the hormone. Therefore it’s not unreasonable in my opinion to expect this is what we’re seeing when someone improves by lowering androgens, which of course 5ar inhibition will do. Unfortunately this is exactly how we got here in the first place and it has also made many people including myself permanently and severely worse. For six years I didnt know I had what then was a very mild PFS because I had solely digestive issues and fatigue, but on taking a dose of 0.25mg again I had a dreadful immediate reaction and crashed two days later developing all the worst PFS symptoms and ruining my life. So I would caution in the extreme against further 5ari usage because the risk is so great and unpredictable, like using finasteride in the first place really.

To answer your question specifically, one of the users with some permutation of the name “ihatefin” (unsurprisingly several people have gone for this name) seems to be remarkably resilient to further worsening via inhibition and has cycled saw, and used plenty of other anti-androgens and usually experiences an improvement to his symptoms. I believe soy flour is something he found the most effective. Everyone has to make their own decisions on the validity and risks of therapeutic attempts, but again I personally would strongly caution against this route myself, as it’s so easy for some of us to give ourselves a permanently worse PFS by messing with inhibition of the AR given that we currently do not know what is driving the over-expression or its failure to re-calibrate upon the return of androgens.

Zonz · August 21, 2020, 1:38pm

Yeah, I myself got back on my drug and it only temporarily made me better. Obviously not all anti androgens behave the same, just as not all pro-androgens behave the same. With St. John’s Wort it’s gave me windows of improment consistently for a month now. But you also have to admit that the vast majority of recoveries on this forum contain anti-androgens of some type, and usually a pro-androgen supplement as well. And how many people have claimed improvements from something like Zinc? Or Soya? I think the combination of anti-androgens and pro-androgens is vital to recovery.

Tzinkman · August 21, 2020, 2:29pm

Could you compile this “vast majority of recoveries” here so people can further scrutinise this claim? I don’t mean this dismissively, I’m curious to see them in one spot so it’s easier to evaluate. I had a look at some of this thread Success Stories Compilation and wasn’t convinced from that. I must state that I’m highly sceptical of recovery stories posted by people with very little or no previous forum history, for obvious reasons.

But that is just so incredibly dangerous for many patients to even tentatively try. It’s important to remember that PFS patients present heterogeneously and it’s well recognised now that there is a scale of symptomatic variability and severity. It’s also regularly observed that those who present with a more severe phenotype are more vulnerable to further endocrine disruption. The 9th and 11th post in that “success stories” thread are from @Rb26dett, who wrote at the time

He was like many here, who have mild to moderate PFS in a range of symptomatic domains. He wanted to hear “positive” posts and to read about the substances that people claim have cured them of this disease. Since then, he used an antiandrogen, tribulus, in hopes of resolving his symptoms. This is what he says about that trial

He’s also tried a pro-androgen. This is his experience

What happened to Matthew Johnson, who committed suicide shortly after reporting improvement from the use of antiandrogen resveratrol, should be read here also

Loss of Post-Finasteride Syndrome sufferer lashes_to_lashes

In the days leading to Matt’s passing, he had been taking supplementary resveratrol and had experienced a profound improvement in his condition, telling us he was experiencing “7 hours of good sleep, libido responding to visual and imaginary stimuli again” return of sexual function, and that he “went for a walk today didn’t feel like [he] was dying from exhaustion”. I expressed deep concern as this is notably antiandrogenic . Matt told us he was “a guinea pig. If I crash, I crash. And you guys will have a new data point”. This speaks to both the desperate state this condition can cause and the selfless way Matt looked at things. He privately told me he felt “great” but would mentally prepare himself in case, and keep us informed of how he was doing. Sadly, this was the last time any of us spoke to him and his memorial took place ten days later.

Considering this tragic outcome and Matt’s stated intention, it would be wrong not to share a word of caution once more regarding therapeutic attempts using antiandrogenic substances. As I’ve posted before sharp reduction of active ligand or inhibition of the AR have provided relief, but have considerably harmed PFS sufferers in some incidences. There are clearly phenotypical differences between sufferers and we react differently to many things, but this is not predictably safe. Please ensure you are aware of the potential risks if considering therapeutic strategies that involve substances with 5ar inhibiting or antiandrogenic properties.

Noukon · August 21, 2020, 2:32pm

I don’t see how this is relevant as Maca isn’t an androgen and has no known effect on steroids

Data showed that compared with placebo Maca had no effect on any of the hormones studied nor did the hormones show any changes over time. Multiple regression analysis showed that serum testosterone levels were not affected by treatment with Maca at any of the times studied (P, not significant). In conclusion, treatment with Maca does not affect serum reproductive hormone levels.

Lepidium meyenii (Maca) does not exert direct androgenic activities

I’ve done my bloodwork and my steroid levels were perfect with all the fin side effects.
The mechanism of action of macamides isn’t known at this point.

Tzinkman · August 21, 2020, 2:32pm

I was replying to the post I quoted, it wasn’t necessarily relevant to maca, a substance I haven’t properly researched yet so do not want to comment on.

moonman1 · August 21, 2020, 2:39pm

Rhodoila lowers cortisol…

Cortisol is catabolic to cellular proteins. Hence, elevated cortisol degrades androgen receptors, increases the aromatase and inflammation and can lead to many issues in the body.

Das · August 21, 2020, 2:45pm

That’s a good find!

Zonz · September 22, 2020, 5:13am

Well, let’s look at some of the most common components of recoveries:

Fasting/ low carb diet = anti androgenic. Fasting opens the AMPK pathway which downregulates androgen receptors. Low Carb diets could do a similar thing especially long term. CDnutz protocol was originally about fasting for a week, followed by strict paleo diet and cycling T-boosting herbs/ R-andro.

The quantity of different herbs people recover from is vast. Tribulus, St John’s, maca, tongkat ali, Ive even seen people attribute their recovery to Ashwaganda. It’s possible that most herbs contain small amounts of anti androgenic beta-sitoristal in the aerial parts that don’t get filtered out in combination with the pro-androgenic parts, like protodioscin.

Even long nofaps can be anti androgenic, I remember before PFS I did 30 day nofap and entered a pretty bad flatline, no libido, anhedonia. I’ve only achieved 14 days nofap with PFS but I felt slightly better when I reached the later days. On the other hand, fapping like 4 times a day can also be anti androgenic and some users here have experienced improvements with doing that…

The only thing that doesn’t align with this is hormone therapy, but in the hormone therapies I’ve tried (topical dht, testosterone) it hasn’t done shit.

I think it would be harder to find a recovery that DOESNT involve anti androgenic stuff + pro-androgenic stuff. https://www.reddit.com/r/PostFinSyndrome/comments/hszdt2/propeciahelp_pfs_recovery_compilation/ Here’s a recovery compilation, most usually include low carb diets, fasting, herbs, etc. and pro-androgenic things like intense exercise and herbs/steroids, etc.

Herb supplements can be pro-androgenic and anti-androgenic. That’s why they’re kinda risky and not really used in medicine, it’s all dependent on the proportions of ingredients they include.

Yeah most of this is risky. So was getting on these drugs in the first place. I myself haven’t ever noticed a permanent lowering of my baseline state, but I know it can happen.

slick1 · August 21, 2020, 11:22pm

Please stop narrowing it down to pro and anti androgen terminology. You putting it in a way it looks like there is no other properties exist of those substances and trying to oversimplify everything.