Keep me updated man 
I’m happy for you
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that AR suppression occurs, so I really don’t know anymore. I’m just sticking to my regimen because it works for me. I’ve shared it in a different thread. The more I read into this condition (and trust me, I’ve read a shit ton of papers at this point), the more I realize how complex and novel it is. There is no one right “regimen”, not every supplement or amino will effect everyone in one uniform way. I think we are all unique, we’re all affected in different ways and to different extents.
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Where’s your regimen at? Which thread ?
Totally agree.
Just to be clear however, are you saying that the evidence says Androgen suppression occurs OR Androgen Receptor suppression occurs?
If the Androgen Receptor is overexpressed and the hormonal pathway is shutdown/not working then that would lead to androgen suppression. Or is it stated that Androgen receptor is getting suppressed for certain?
Glad to hear that its working for you, what you experienced is analogous to what others have reported when they tried taking soy. From my experience, soy gives me a particular feeling/benefit that I have never experienced with any other anti-androgen, something about the way it works is quite unique. Furthermore, the thing that I like about soy is that its effect is “sticky”, by that I mean that the benefits from a single dose of soy last for a few days before fading away. What this indicates to me is that soy probably has the ability to work very powerfully on a fundamental level in order to have such a persistent effect. In theory, if you were to use the right amount of soy for the right amount of time then it should help permanently put some PFS symptoms into remission. Anyways, this is my own experience with soy, YMMV of course
And yes, that is my blog
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You can find it here:
I’m saying that there is evidence suggesting suppression of the androgen receptor via signaling pathway. Read the third paper I posted above regarding men diagnosed with prostate cancer who underwent Androgen Deprivation therapy and the side effects they experienced.
I’ve got to admit i didn’t think for one minute that this would be any help at all I’m actually guilty of being very negative of soy.
It’s great news to hear that it is helping people I’m going to give it a go myself could you please tell me exactly what soy it was that you tried please i really want to see if this helps.
My testosterone and DHT are all normal and perfectly in the middle of the range. I suffer from the neurological effects that are distinctive to pfs and appeared just when I crashed (unexpectedly. I didn’t know about crashes) Although I had half the sexual symptoms, most of them diminished or disappeared with time.
I would say my AR (Androgen Receptors) are currently working not too far from normal parameters.
The AR are not the only thing being affected. 3α-HSD, 3β-HSD enzymes are also affected and important neurosteroids are completely shut down, like allopregnanolone and tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone, explaining the panic attack, anxiety, depression and insomnia; the deregulation of the GABA and Dopamine receptors (bringing anhedonia) and the myriads of effects it has on the mind and body.
In my estimate, if you use fin to inhibit to some degree the AR, they will adapt and work stronger to establish a balance with the inhibitor. Then if you stop the inhibitor, it will throw them off balance and they will end up working harder than they should. If it’s really too much, your body will find a way to shut them down completely and you get AR suppression (like gene methylation). That’s better that than dying.
If the AR are working more than they should but not too much to be a threat, the body may not shut them down but instead try other ways to balance things out. You get AR over-expression.
Maybe for some, when they first used fin, it inhibited the AR completely, never giving them any chances to adapt. Then the symptoms of AR suppression appeared quickly.
This is just a theory, I’m not a doctor, but it appears the differences between pfs sufferers may be linked to how well we first tolerated the drug. After all, we each have wildly ranging natural levels of testosterone and other hormones, enzymes, neurotransmitters etc… (some have 5 times more testosterone than others) but yet the dosage of the poisonous drug is the same for all of us.
I took fin for 20 years and it took 15 years for the first symptoms to appear. I think it’s fair to say my body had time to adapt to the drug and withdrawing it has caused extra damage and threw me off balance.
If we spin around and lose our balance, it’s hard to predict in which direction we’re going to fall. It’s a bit like playing twister. We each end up in a different, awkward position.
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Thanks for the info
I will give it a shot see what happens
I just can’t get my head around it as so many guys that consume soy complain of sexual dysfunctions…
Still well worth a shot
I’m still can’t get my head around this soy thing
I’ve seen so many posts saying avoid soy based proteins …
Just done a little bit of reading up on things
Its true that there are guys that complain about negative side effects from soy, however usually when this happens there are significant mitigating factors involved. Oftentimes the guy either took too much soy within a short period of time or was taking large doses of soy for an extended period of time. Im firmly of the belief that if one uses moderate doses of soy then there should be no problems.
If you can find any threads where guys experienced negative side effects from soy then please forward them to me so that I can analyze these cases. Im sure there are a decent amount of guys who got negative side effects from soy, but I suspect that the majority of those cases involved significant mitigating factors like the ones I mentioned above.
No offense but just because you are a true believer of something doesn’t make it fact. I’ve been a true believer of a lot of things but turned out to be wrong
What’s your input on the theory of the anti reverse transcriptase meds currently being talked about ?
if you’re asking me, i haven’t done enough of my own reading of the literature of its mechanism of action to speak intelligently on the matter so i won’t be commenting.
also i’ve asked @irishguy754 many questions to gain more information and formulate my own opinion, but sadly i’ve been ignored
I am asking you and I haven’t been answered via dm either just through his post which is good enough I guess, but yeah I don’t know he’s not a new member so I find it exciting
Nowhere did I state that my opinion was infallible. I’ve been very moderate in my promotion of the soy protocol as well as open minded to its potential to cause harm as well. That’s why I wrote this in the very comment that you replied to:
If I was a true believer (aka have blind faith) in the soy protocol then I would not be asking other people to forward me incidences where soy may have caused negative side effects. I’m of the belief that moderate (keyword moderate) doses are soy are most likely safe for guys with PFS, but there’s a possibility that I’m wrong, hence I’m asking for people to send me incidences where soy has given negative side effects in guys with PFS so that I can modify my beliefs regarding the safety of the soy protocol accordingly.
Did soy helped you with anxiety, insomnia and the such ?
Soy does give me a subtle calming effect when I take it. I suspect that it helped my anxiety, insomnia etc to a small degree. The problem is that its only recently that ive started to focus on my anxiety, insomnia etc issues. Previously I was only focused on the sexual side effects, as a result I never really paid attention to my mental/emotional side effects and the effect that soy had on them.
That being said, soy isoflavones do act as a gabaa receptor antagonist, and the soy isoflavones are also capable of downregulating the androgen receptors in the brain as well, so I wouldnt be surprised if soy can help with the mental/emotional side effects. It is interesting to note that during the time ive been experimenting with soy (about 1.5 years now) my sleep has improved to the point where I can sleep a full, uninterrupted six hours. I seem to recall that this was somehow connected to me taking soy, but I dont remember when it happened exactly.
I’m currently doing an Amino Acid For neurological symptoms experiment.
When you’re taking isoflavones in soy, you achieve similar results to those I’m achieving with aminos.
But it’s worth noting that by just eating a steak with Kale and butter, you get a huge amount of amino acids as well as minerals and vitamins. Kale also contains DIM, which is an AR antagonist. I eat at least 200 gr of kale per days.
With sufficient digestive enzymes, this meal is a powerhouse.
I will conclude my experiment on aminos of mental symptoms soon. It appears diet, food and supplements can only go so far to ease the symptoms. I think we shouldn’t overdo it and try to get 100% results. It’s my opinion that If you can be at 80-90% normal without taking anything in excessive quantities, stick to it and let time cure you. That’s what I’ll do once I’ve concluded the third part of my experiment: aminos for sexual symptoms.
So far so good. The collagen experiment enabled me to add carbs to my diet (I couldn’t have any without severe anxiety after I crashed). The aminos for neurological symptoms eased most of my mental symptoms and I’m optimistic about aminos and herbs for sexual symptoms.
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