Soy discussion (Varility Paradox topic)

Therapeutic Efforts
#81

Its true that there are guys that complain about negative side effects from soy, however usually when this happens there are significant mitigating factors involved. Oftentimes the guy either took too much soy within a short period of time or was taking large doses of soy for an extended period of time. Im firmly of the belief that if one uses moderate doses of soy then there should be no problems.

If you can find any threads where guys experienced negative side effects from soy then please forward them to me so that I can analyze these cases. Im sure there are a decent amount of guys who got negative side effects from soy, but I suspect that the majority of those cases involved significant mitigating factors like the ones I mentioned above.

#82

No offense but just because you are a true believer of something doesn’t make it fact. I’ve been a true believer of a lot of things but turned out to be wrong

#83

What’s your input on the theory of the anti reverse transcriptase meds currently being talked about ?

#84

if you’re asking me, i haven’t done enough of my own reading of the literature of its mechanism of action to speak intelligently on the matter so i won’t be commenting.

also i’ve asked @irishguy754 many questions to gain more information and formulate my own opinion, but sadly i’ve been ignored

#85

I am asking you and I haven’t been answered via dm either just through his post which is good enough I guess, but yeah I don’t know he’s not a new member so I find it exciting

#86

Nowhere did I state that my opinion was infallible. I’ve been very moderate in my promotion of the soy protocol as well as open minded to its potential to cause harm as well. That’s why I wrote this in the very comment that you replied to:

If I was a true believer (aka have blind faith) in the soy protocol then I would not be asking other people to forward me incidences where soy may have caused negative side effects. I’m of the belief that moderate (keyword moderate) doses are soy are most likely safe for guys with PFS, but there’s a possibility that I’m wrong, hence I’m asking for people to send me incidences where soy has given negative side effects in guys with PFS so that I can modify my beliefs regarding the safety of the soy protocol accordingly.

#87

Did soy helped you with anxiety, insomnia and the such ?

#88

Soy does give me a subtle calming effect when I take it. I suspect that it helped my anxiety, insomnia etc to a small degree. The problem is that its only recently that ive started to focus on my anxiety, insomnia etc issues. Previously I was only focused on the sexual side effects, as a result I never really paid attention to my mental/emotional side effects and the effect that soy had on them.

That being said, soy isoflavones do act as a gabaa receptor antagonist, and the soy isoflavones are also capable of downregulating the androgen receptors in the brain as well, so I wouldnt be surprised if soy can help with the mental/emotional side effects. It is interesting to note that during the time ive been experimenting with soy (about 1.5 years now) my sleep has improved to the point where I can sleep a full, uninterrupted six hours. I seem to recall that this was somehow connected to me taking soy, but I dont remember when it happened exactly.

#89

I’m currently doing an Amino Acid For neurological symptoms experiment.

When you’re taking isoflavones in soy, you achieve similar results to those I’m achieving with aminos.

But it’s worth noting that by just eating a steak with Kale and butter, you get a huge amount of amino acids as well as minerals and vitamins. Kale also contains DIM, which is an AR antagonist. I eat at least 200 gr of kale per days.

With sufficient digestive enzymes, this meal is a powerhouse.

I will conclude my experiment on aminos of mental symptoms soon. It appears diet, food and supplements can only go so far to ease the symptoms. I think we shouldn’t overdo it and try to get 100% results. It’s my opinion that If you can be at 80-90% normal without taking anything in excessive quantities, stick to it and let time cure you. That’s what I’ll do once I’ve concluded the third part of my experiment: aminos for sexual symptoms.

So far so good. The collagen experiment enabled me to add carbs to my diet (I couldn’t have any without severe anxiety after I crashed). The aminos for neurological symptoms eased most of my mental symptoms and I’m optimistic about aminos and herbs for sexual symptoms.

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Can't get libido above 0%
#90

Chech out this story: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/73369-oral-pregnenolone-and-dhea-nightmare/

Similar to our stories but induced by Pregnenolone and DHEA. I changed my mind about aminos being only food. Plus I started having side effects from Pregnenolone so I started to tapper off.

The lady was having side effects after 1 week but followed her doctor’s advice and continued for a month.

Whatever you’re trying guys, stop or tapper off at first sign of trouble. You think you’re bad, well guess what? you could be worst !

And I won’t ever follow a doctor’s advice to go on taking something that makes me feel bad. Doctors forget about you 5 minutes after you walked out. You have to live with the consequences of their decisions.

#91

hey IIRC you are the guy on solvepfs who had problems with some sort of estrogen resistance. Assuming you are that guy, I just wanted to let you know that soy is basically a mild SERM, therefore in theory it could help treat your condition (obviously it might make it worse too). Anyways I just wanted to pass on that information to you in case you might find it useful.

Can't get libido above 0%
#92

Hey yeah that is me. I appreciate the concern and the suggestion. However, I have taken 1 dose of nolvadex and clomifene (SERMs) each at different times, and have crashed extremely badly to the point where I legitimately thought my life was over and made my condition exponentially worse.

In addition, soy protein makes my condition worse as well so I avoid it at all costs.

Either way, thanks for the suggestion I know you are trying to help

#93

Check out this video about estrogen:

To summarize, if you eat grain, soy, chicken (that eat soy) or eggs from those chicken, or use some type of plastic, you get lower testosterone and higher estrogen.

Apparently, chicken are the worst as they concentrate the worst phytoestrogens from the soya they are fed.

It reassure me in my diet: I don’t eat grain, soya, eggs or chicken. Only beef and greens and some fat dairy products.

#94

None of those foods affect me or my testosterone, since I am on TRT and I control my dose.

Soy protein really fucks me up though due to the high genistein content. 1 serving of soy protein could leave me impotent, depressed, sick, and muscle wasting increased for a week.

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#95
#96

You are missing the point. Many (not all, but many) of guys with PFS have altered receptor function/altered hormones. Therefore, what applies to most guys no longer applies to us. That is why for normal guys soy is probably not very good, but paradoxically for PFS guys soy may be helpful for us.

Also to reiterate, the primary issue regarding soy is not estrogen, nor is it productive to get caught up in the whole soy = estrogen debate; while this is true to an extent, what is more important to consider is that soy downregulates the androgen receptors themselves. This in itself is huge, and extremely important. So basically with regards to soy, its not a black and white issue, soy needs to be considered on a couple of different levels because its mechanism through it affects guys with PFS is deeper and potentially more complex than what most people think.

#97

I have two questions for you:

  1. how does beer (a moderate source of xenoestrogens) affect you?

  2. Do you respond to TRT pretty well?

#98

  1. it’s a form of phytoestrogens and there’s actually not that many in beer contrary to what people believe. there is much more in sesame seeds, soy protein, and flax seeds. to answer your question, i’ve recently had 2-3 beers without any adverse effects.

  2. i’ve lost many benefits that are attributable to TRT. i’ve lost libido, erection strength, muscle recovery, i’ve lost the nitric oxide boost, muscle protein synthesis boost, euphoria, skin health, hair health. id day i’ve lost all of its positive benefits and even its side effects such acne i don’t get oily skin, i don’t get high blood pressure. but, if i wasn’t on my 63mg per week, i know id be much worse off. the only benefits i have left are muscle strength (NOT size) and energy.

but please remember I do not have PFS, i believe my issue to be with the estrogen receptor so that will affect different things and leave other things unaffected

#99

Well, I can’t eat grain or soya, I get anxiety, and I don’t trust fish. it’s polluted.
I’m not going to turn vegan, get food allergies, anxiety and end up fucked up and suicidal.

But that shows what we already know: humanity can’t go on the way it does, we’re heading for a wall.
And when we hit it, I’ll have as little pfs symptoms as I can because it’s going to be survival of the fittest.

#100

I understand what you’re saying. It’s good for those who need to downregulate the AR. All the better for them. Experiment and see what works for you. Go slowly and stop at first sign of trouble.

I was just pointing out that for those who do no need to down regulate the AR, like me, not only soy but grain an chicken and eggs can be bad. I’ll stick to beef and kale. I’m doing fine with it.

I’m, currently on an experiment where i’m taking Carnitine to increase AR density, and pine pollen to get extra phyto androgens. Let’s see if I feel better or worst with that.