Just FYI: In the admins’ opinion, sulforaphane is highly likely modulate PFS symptoms for reasons I’ve briefly discussed many times. It potently reduces AR levels, so the associated risk I discuss regarding antiandrogenic substances applies. Cases who developed severe PFS with brief exposure should especially consider this.
Exposure to SFN decreased AR protein levels in a time- and dose-dependent manner with almost no AR detected at 24 h with 15 µM SFN (p<0.005). This rapid and potent AR suppression by SFN occurred by both AR protein degradation, as suggested by cycloheximide (CHX) co-exposure studies, and by suppression of AR gene expression, as evident from quantitative RT-PCR experiments.
@axolotl, you have described your case of PFS to be very severe. You have consequently decided not to take any androgenic nor antiandrogenic substances for fear of them making you worse.
Out of genuine curiosity, at what point will you be satisfied to take a substance to potentially improve your state? What criteria would need to be met?
That’s not an accurate summary of my personal situation and I don’t see the question as of relevance to my post or the topic. I can be reached via PM of course in the case of genuine curiosity.
As the administrators and moderators have sometimes observed significant and lasting consequences, as well as suicide, following therapeutic attempts with antiandrogenic substances, it is our prerogative to try and inform users who may not know that it is, in our opinion, a risk that they may wish to take into account when making their own decisions. It is in our view unlikely to be spurious a broad range of antiandrogenic substances cause members to present here in the first place. I am often asked for this information publicly and privately.
I appreciate that. The question perhaps was not suitable for this particular thread, however I do think it’s a useful discussion to have publicly, because both I and many other members hold you in high regard for both your personal investment to the running of this forum, research, but also your insight.
I was under the impression from your previous posts that you did have a severe form of PFS, but I do apologise I’ve mischaracterised your PFS situation.
I personally appreciate the efforts you as well as others have made to warn users of the dangers of toying around with antiandrogenic substances - this kind of warning is the least we can do as forum users and it has the potential to save lives.
I do think it’s of value to have a discussion as to what constitutes something ‘worth’ trying, even if the criteria happen to be extremely demanding. By having a sense of what we are in essence looking for, it can in turn ward people off trying substances which do not fit the criteria.
I understand that at this stage we know more about what does not work than what does, I am mindful of this. However, I think the establishment of a set of criteria of what may be worth considering is something which should hold a more objective basis than rather relying on prayer, impulse and daring.
At some point in the future we may do this. Other staff had wanted to after an unfortunate event but I had reservations regarding doing this just yet.
Thank you. I understand. It’s a reasonable thing, I realise I am not always extremely forthcoming. I am working on a paper and have been for a long while which should contextualise a lot of things regarding the observations in the condition and the (quite rapidly developing) science underpinning the direction of research we believe is worthwhile. It’s not a walk in the park so it’s taking me a long time. Re your assumptions, I do unfortunately experience an extreme degree of PFS. I meant only in regard to implication of no personal therapeutic trials undertaken. Following my own responses and reading the entire history of this forum, that is now my decision for the time being due to personal fragility and therefore risk to my work on the issue, which I will do everything I can to see through and am not willing to jeopardise. My story is in the member story section though it’s not the cheeriest read, obviously.
Like many things to do with this is a tricky one. Firstly, what constitutes “worth trying” and what potentially is a risk are often not without overlap as I’m sure you’ve noticed. Off the top of my head, Gingko is recently being discussed and within the last few months someone said they had a significant crash and worsening, while someone else said continued treatment had “cured” them (although a successful ongoing treatment would be more accurate). In an absence of a mechanistic explanation for this response it is near impossible to guess how to interfere with it when trying to relieve symptoms with such substances. I have many things in my notes of potential therapeutic significance that haven’t been discussed at all, but none of them are without enormous risk in the absence of more information on what is going on at the molecular level. As such the best I personally feel we can do without more focused evidence - and I am hoping we’ll have some soon - is to accurately report outcomes and make sure members are at least making informed choices. Which brings me to…
I spent a lot of time with awor devising an objective system for data focused reporting of per treatment therapeutic outcomes. This was originally in the survey, but the technical complexity literally pushed the software past its limits and we had to separate it off into its own thing. So, it is fully functional and exists, but no one can use it yet…This weekend I’ll be getting back to bothering the non-patient volunteer who helps with our technical development and devising a way to integrate the personal survey invites into (what I’m currently envisaging as) a button at the top of the forum. This will provide a drop down menu so soon as users are eligible they can take both the survey and participate in this separate therapeutic responses system, the latter of which will be continually and freely updateable to account for new responses to substances taken therapeutically or for other reasons. This will work with the analytics system we’re developing and be explorable. There will be neat ways to embed these into posts etc. I hope at least this will allow users to contribute to aggregate data and easily communicate responses they have.
its the other way around i think, PC cells get up regulated thus silenced and hypersponsive to tumor growth, sulforaphane does the opposite by inhibition of HDACi and prevents PC
I get very “reassured” when you post/people who know as much and put in as much research from such a base of knowledge post. Thanks for doing what you do ax. <3
I’m definitely noticing a much better quality of life in general following sulforaphane (took a couple of pills to test tolerance, then ten pills on two days.) Most notable of all I can masturbate 2x day without crashing now - and do.
EQ isn’t brilliant, probably only a few percent worse for either doing that or for the BroccoMax itself. However the sour sinus headache has GONE and the swollen something feeling in my neck is gone - when I look downwards, nothing. I also now tolerate tribulus.
Would this have been due to knocking out androgen receptors? If so, how and when would they regenerate?
Do you have any theories or any thinking as to why I might be improving?
Just as a note - someone’s gotten WAY worse taking this before, so nobody jump on this. I’m experimenting because I am, you (dear reader) shouldn’t. I have no idea what I’m doing.
It almost sounds like the benefits you are noticing could be coming from resensitization of the glucocorticoid receptor rather than the AR. Specifically that your sinus issues are better, you’re not crashing from masturbation, but yet your EQ is not better.
Guys, the point is: you need to take in consideration 3 variable before to give an affirmative answer after any drugs experiment or experience result
1-Do the drug cross the blood brain barrier ( BBB )
2-What dosage was use?
3-For how long was the drug take ?
If you don’t keep all the 3 as a record we are going to be running in circle and unorganized
I proposed to set a page in this forum with a format with the names of supplements and drugs, where to keep a log of record of the used drug.
Drug should be used one drug or supplement at the time as a rule to participate, I can’t be a crazy list of supplements or drugs.
We should divide in groups, what drug are going to try by those group, and keep a record of the effect or side effects of it.
It can be posted daily or one a week.
So we are going to gain time with the experimental treatment, also we are going to know the consistency and it is replicable or no.
Or we can choose as individuals what drug you are going to try.
They used the chemical sulforaphane found in [broccoli sprouts] which is known to turn on a gene that makes more of the enzyme that sticks glutamate with another molecule to make glutathione
Sulforaphane changed the glutamate imbalance in the rat brains and affected how messages were transmitted between the rat brain cells
I’m number 8 in a family of 9. We all have above average intelligence, some PHDs, and a few millionaires even though my parents were dirt poor. We also have high level of anxiety, panic attack and insomnia. All signs of high Glutamate and low GABA. No wonder fin had this specific effect on me. This shed light on my condition.
I was taking Sulforaphane to increase GABA. Took it for 3 weeks and it has given me irreversible improvements.
Please keep us posted, I will do my cycle of Sulforaphane also, I want to finish my own experiment first with Tribulus and Creatine before start mixing supplements or drugs. Read my Crash with Creatine post.
Ozeph, did Sulforaphane improved your libido ?
Thank you for your post
Reading the article I posted above, I understand why my sleep has been deteriorating: I’ve been taking 10 gr. a day of Collagen peptides, which increases Glutamate and lowers GABA. It also explains why I had headaches, which I though were things of the past now that I’m ketogenic.
Very informative. The most thorough article I’ve read on GABA and it’s relationship to Glutamate, and also a good cue as to why some of us are more prone to neurological symptoms. A must read…
Also confirms my approach on the ketogenic diet, as well as magnesium, vitamin D, K and A supplementation as well as B6.
What was your sulforaphane regimen again? On the one hand I’m eager to try this, but on the other I am scared of trying it out because of the admins’ admonishment about sulforaphane being an antiandrogen and the potentially huge risk that entails.
Sex drive is decreased not only by androgen imbalance and androgen receptor inhibition, but by excess Glutamate and lack of GABA (which is also the cause of the neurological symptoms). Sulforaphane was supposed to increase GABA, it turned out to increase Dopamine, Serotonin and most likely GABA although I have no proof of that.
My sex drive has improved. If I have to attribute it to a single cause, it would be the carnivore / ketogenic diet.
But if you look at my regimen, I’ve been taking so many supplements it’s hard to know which one is responsible.
I guess it’s a coincidence, but lots of what I take is also mentioned in the article.
If you try anything I did, start slowly and stop at first sign of trouble. Don’t be stubborn, that’s how people get worst.
