Cause of PFS/PSSD - I bring back this old hypothesis and bring supporting evidence

[adamhd1]

Hey guys,
@henrique @lazarusry @Oscar @spstriken @Northern_Star @Bigpoppa10040 @Mark2012 @moonman1 @joetz

I would like to re-ignite the hypothesis that the cause of PFS is autoimmune - more specifically auto-antibodies - I first saw this theory being discussed between @Oscar and @spstriken way back in 2012! See the links below this comment.

@Oscar or @sptriken put this study in one of their old threads and I thinks it’s key.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.82.24.8345

The study looks at autoantibodies against the androgen receptor.
“Circulating antibodies to human and rat androgen receptors are present at high tiers in the blood sera of some patients with prostate diseases” (Liao and Witte, 1985)

also…

also

also

^ Says that auto-antibodies react with androgen receptor and not with oestrogen receptors - probably why a lot of us guys get estrogenic effects after crashing?

^^ Androgen receptor-antibody complexes (I think?) are high in some patients with BPH and prostate cancer. Maybe us coming off the prostate-shrinkers caused our prostate cells to grow again in number as our DHT came back (DHT comes back 300% I read somewhere on here I think - if I’m not mistaken) - this is making our body think something is going wrong and in turn produces anti-androgen receptor autoantibodies?
Also in the same paragraph the author(s) imply(ies) that androgen receptors in other organs could also be targets for the autoantibodies.

As mentioned in screenshot the 73, 75 and 83 year old with antibody titres of about 150 fmol had clinical symptoms of BPH and prostate cancer - immune system basically reacting to abnormal prostate cell proliferation by blocking DHT from doing its job? Would those three elderly guys have ‘PFS’? God knows.

^ Them 3 chaps are probably the 3 at the bottom right on the graph for the males. Interesting…

Also from https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.00794/full

^ would explain slow wound healing in some sufferers here.

Following what Oscar and Spstriken discussed and building on Baylor –
a lack of proper androgen receptor signalling from normal androgens (as androgens are being blocked from AR binding-site by autoantibodies) is probably what caused our body to make more androgen receptors to help bring back our androgen activity to normal ?

Also I think all PFS sufferers I’ve seen (except one) have out of range (high) IgE. IgE can be autoantibodies.

********POST YOUR IMMUNOGLOBULIN E (IgE) TEST RESULTS HERE**********

To date, four members have had their immunoglobulin E (IgE) levels tested and all of them have come back above normal range. Could this be a clue to our syndrome? IgE is the most powerful isotype of immunogloblins and it is capable of triggering the most powerful immune reactions. Did it trigger an autoimmune response against DHT or the 5-alpha-reducatse isoenzyme? The world’s leading endocrinologists and urologists are hapless when it comes to treating post finasteride syndrome. Is it beca…

^ downside

Also I saw on a generic health page that autoimmune diseases can be difficult to diagnose. There’s a lab in Germany (I think?) that are testing for autoantibodies (many many hospitals do not test for these - including Mayo apparently) and several PSSD sufferers are coming forward as having high out of range autoantibodies ( check the PSSD Reddit page or PSSD Auto-Antibodies Detected - Proof of autoimmune disorder in PSSD )

Unfortunately as of now there’s no cure for autoimmune diseases but to get another diagnostic criteria under our belt would be a step in the right direction.

This would explain why certain people get better when they get ill or sleep deprived.
Would also explain why a lot of us don’t feel anything with TRT after the crash despite reports of feeling great before.

So I think maybe we have androgen activity but our androgen activity is not what it previously was (due to blocked androgen receptor) - this of course can reduce quality of life as androgens have neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory effects - androgens can also be immunosuppressive.

Also why not test antibodies for 5AR, T, DHT and DHF while we’re at it? Lol. Apparently antibodies against 5AR2 exist. Although personally I lean towards autoantibodies against the androgen receptor. If those scientists from that 1985 paper are still alive maybe they could be contacted to check for autoantibodies against the androgen receptor - (dunno how they did it).

What do you guys think?

Oscar’s and Spstriken’s original convo from '12

Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone or 5ar2 antibodies.

Thanks to Finasteride my brain is slowly being destroyed…and now i have the proof for all doctors to pay attention to what i say. I was diagnosed with an MRI scan as having signs of demyelination. I am 100% certain this was caused by Finasteride and the theory of this guy is correct : hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=85335 Probably i am one of the oldest ex-users of Finasteride in here. I took it back in 1998 (now i am 43) and this medication has ruined my life. I a…

Sptriken’s proposal antibody testing <-- dunno why nothing came of this?

List of anti-body blood tests

Hi all if any body is going for AR antibodies tests, 5 AR anti bodies tests or FSH anti bodies test etc, I am willing to share the cost. Please let me know the total cost and once all the detail is agreed upon I will bear some share in the cost for such tests. I think instead of putting the burden on one we can share it and it will be beneficial for all of us.

What Reddit people have tested and what they are testing positive for

More positive results at https://www.reddit.com/r/PSSD/comments/z3rnsu/many_askt_me_to_share_my_results_well_i_will/

Apparently people are testing for these and sending it to Professor David Healy as he has asked for those?

Key Studies

1. Androgen-Induced Immunosuppression
   https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.00794/full

2. Autoimmune anti-androgen receptor antibodies in human serum
   https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.82.24.8345