Don’t take anything anti-androgenic (dutasteride would technically be a taper anyway if that would even help in the first place). Just ride it out.
Benzos have helped me during my worst periods if sleep/anxiety are part of your issues
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I think you might be on the right path. I’ve been on something similar to cd-nuts protocol (although with a more restricted diet) and I’m eating only once a day while taking androgen herbs. I’ve been doing that for over 2 years and I’m 95% recovered.
I’m on a carnivore/ketogenic diet.
How did you stop them and which one / how much were you taking ?
I’m still on benzos for my last symptom which is insomnia.
Great to hear
What herbs did you use? And did you do herb cycling?
“Go back on 0.25 mg?”
No i won’t touch any anti androgens ever again in my life. I will not touch anything which has the word “Anti” affiliated with it. Plz don’t give this suggestion to anyone.
@lashes_to_lashes this kind soul commited suicide after taking an anti androgen called “Resveratrol”
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I was thinking to try 200mg protocol too. But after reading your comment im know kinda spectic about it. What about taking 75mg a day for 2 months? I bought 5 boxes of proviron and want to give my best shot to use it.
Maybe wait and see how I do. That’ll make three people (pal, Rebel and myself) who will have done it. And then only pal and myself who did pharma proviron (if that makes any difference.)
I feel hideous and deeply deeply miserable most of the time. As in, intensely suicide-miserable. Let me take the hit on this if there’s a hit to be taken before jumping onboard maybe. I’m 9 days away from finishing then sitting on my hands for two months.
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We don’t know if the damage is epigenetic though. It’s only what Ozeph believes pfs to be.
What we do know is that proviron cured someone.
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This disease is likely epigenetic in nature. It has nothing to do with Ozeph’s believes. The point was first raised by Awor over 10 years ago and it is also the belief of the scientists who know about this condition. Considering the long persistent side effects that we have, it all points to a persistent reprogramming of cells in certain tissue. That is likely epigenetic. We also have first evidence of epigenetic effects via the Melcangi study on 5ar methylation. From what we know, it would be very surprising if this condition wasn’t driven by epigenetic changes.
What we also know is that Proviron has been discussed and tried here since the dawn of the forum in 2006. It’s very unlikely that this is the cure™. It is just another wild goose chase and not even a new one.
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So still a theory then without any conclusive evidence. And almost everything causes “epigenetic” changes btw.
Several lifestyle factors have been identified that might modify epigenetic patterns, such as diet, obesity, physical activity, tobacco smoking, alcohol consumption, environmental pollutants, psychological stress, and working on night shifts.
And nobody is saying proviron is the cure™ but atleast we know it helped some people recover.
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Yes, almost everything causes epigenetic changes. And powerful endocrine disruptors will naturally likely cause these changes. We need to find out, what epigenetic changes have occurred to figure out what is wrong.
We don’t know that Proviron helped people recover. We know that some anonymous people on the internet claim that it helped them recover. How many is “some” btw.? How many have tried it? What is the success rate? What is the success rate among people who were severely affected, have been affected for more than two years and have a reliable member story? How many got worse?
You are always happy to refer to some vague recovery stories, but ignore at the same time that this has been going on for almost 15 years on this forum now. Somebody claims recovery by XYZ, everybody goes on the wild goose chase. Sooner or later people realize that nobody but the original thread starter has recovered, and everybody jumps on the next bandwagon. It’s tedious and it’s holding this community back. It’s not “faster” or more “realistic” than the science track. But at least on the science track we have made some progress figuring things out.
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Hey @Ozeph i never used them over an extended period either for 4-5 days in a week during a rough patch then stop or intermittently (2-3 days in a week). I took temazepam 10mg.
I’ve moved onto Remeron for about a week now (7.5mg) so far so good.
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How does people trying things hold back anything? Serious? If you find people trying things to get better tedious you can ignore those threads. But saying this “holds back the community” makes no sense.
And Pal’s recovery story isn’t vague, I’m happy he even shared his recovery story at all here.
I am not against people trying things. I think it is dangerous and extremely unlikely to yield results, but if you want to do that it’s okay. But if it keeps people from supporting more constructive efforts, then it’s holding the community back. You, for example, are very busy on the forum, but you have not even participated in the survey. People are always too busy chasing the wild goose to donate, to participate in studies, to participate in our community projects etc. It’s exactly the false logic that you present here that trying things may help now, that has failed over and over again for now over 15 years. We could be much further ahead if people hadn’t focused on a fictional “quick fix” and had instead supported the efforts to study this problem.
And your posts show clearly that nothing has been learned. You promote the same logic and the same things that have been tried and discussed for 15 years. I wish I could just ignore these threads, but unfortunately it affects my directly that people cannot organize behind a rational and constructive approach.
Pal’s story isn’t vague. But it is just one story from a guy with no credible history and who used something that has been tried for over a decade. I am not impressed. A couple of months from now people will realize that Proviron will not help most (or any) people and chase the next goose, while other efforts are stuck. Rinse and repeat.
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That’s great that you’re doing better. I do believe that low-carb diets and fasting are in the end anti-androgenic, I remember a user here stating he developed PFS-like symptoms after doing keto for 3 years with lots of fasting. He’s now banned because obviously he’s not a post drug patient, but I’m just looking to see what all recovery methods have in common, and this seems to be it. Opening the androgen receptors with anti-androgens, and then going in with pro-androgen substances to, I guess cause homeostasis within the cells… Idk, that’s where my theory gets blurry due to my lack of knowledge.
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Guys where are all the others? I remember at least 4 people doing this protocol on that actual thread. They said they are off now and waiting for something to happen. Where are they?
If anyone knows all of their names, please tag them here so they can get a notification from this thread.
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There are ways to restore epigenetic changes. they include some of the stuff I’m doing and has to do with BetaHydroxyButyrate and sirtuin proteins.
I’m doing some of Dr. David Sinclair protocole. So far so good ! I look younger and frekles on my face are disapearring. They are cause by epigenetic damage .
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What exactly is the Sinclair protocole?
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Well, I’m 3.5 weeks post protocol. There’s been some marked improvements in energy, digestion, and body temperature…but I nothing yet in the areas of libido, body comp, or body odor. This could be due to Clomid/Nolva and having significantly lower free T levels than when I was on Proviron. I’ll probably have a better picture after I stop the PCT in 3 weeks and that crap leaves my system.
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