is androctorol any different andractim? maybe get it tested at a clinic?
Yes, Andractim is 2.5%, is in a tube and is commercially made by a pharma company. What I got, Androctorol, looks like itās made in a garage with a home-printed label on itā¦ I have no idea where I can test it.
Update: I wrote to the clinic and received satisfactory reassurances about the legitimacy of the product.
Same exact bottle as mine from All Saints. Try it out, the first time I tried it it DEFINITELY had a masculinizing effect. Then subsequent times it never seemed to work again.
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Ok, thanks! I was getting worried that it was fake.
When you say the first time, do you mean the very first application or the first cycle? How long did you use it for and how long did the effect last? What was the masculinizing effect?
I just dug out some info on Stanolone (DHT). It is a white crystalline powder with high water solubility, 525 mg/mL. So at least it is not impossible that it is legit. Whether vehicle is in fact appropriate for absorption through skin is another matterā¦
i feel like a compounding pharmacy might do it? and @Scott.H , how did you apply it? can you also further explain wht specifically you mean by masculinizing?
So the recommended dose by All Saints sounds legit. They say to use 2 globules of 5 drops two times a day. This is 20 drops. One mL is 20 drops. The solution is 12% so thatās 120 mg/day, assuming all gets absorbed. Thatās the lowest dose used by Kunelius et al. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932266)
For reference, these elderly men had an average DHT of 1.5 nmol/L before treatment and 9 nmol/L after, so DHT rose 6 times (some required a double dose, or 250 mg/d for an equivalent effect).
My DHT is 175 pg/ml (300-850) which is 0.60 nmol/L. A x6 increase will put me at 1050 pg/ml or 3.6 nmol/L. Thatās the maximum expected increase, if I am like the high responders in the paper.
Note the decrease in all other hormones after treatment - T, E2, SHBG, FSH, LH. My free T is very high ā 29 pg/ml (7.0 - 22.7) ā so a decrease might be good.
I started using the DHT liquid last night. I have used it three times so far. It has been less than 24 hours so I havenāt reached a steady state yet. There is some improvement in libido, erections, orgasm strength, and mood. So far the effect is smaller than what I get from a high dose Tribulus. Still I am cautiously optimistic. Will report again when there is more data.
Update 8/12/2019: The initial positive effect on core symptoms, though small, subsided after the first day. There is still a positive effect but even smaller. I am not cycling it but taking it every day. So far the most noticeable additional effects are improvement in joint pain and oilier skin (the way it used to be). Weāll see how it goes.
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hows it going?
I used Andractim for a few months four years ago as part of Dr. Goldsteinās protocol. Iām now interested in trying it again, but the site that he was then recommending to purchase it no longer exists, and the All Saints site recommended here has a note that says:
Due to major supply problems, unfortunately we are unable to supply Andractim for the forseeable future. Very many apologies.
Just wondering if anyone knows of any other place to get legit Andractim?
Did it have any effect?
It did not have a major effect as I recall. But as I look back, I do think it may have been more useful than I realized.
One thing I noted while on it it was that it restored pre-seminal fluid. This in and of itself had not been a big deal to me; it was more just another random indicator that something was badly off in my body. But when I started taking Andractim in ā15, I started getting it again, and even though I havenāt used Andractim since that summer, Iāve continued to get it since.
The reason this is on my mind now is that, from what I can tell, I seem to have gone through a brand new crash in the last month, similar to what happened when I first quit Propecia 7 years ago. Itās baffling ā the condition had been stable for me for years ā and itās of course hard to differentiate between what this ācrashā is causing and what my stress/anxiety/obsessing over it is causing.
But as I look back, I do think I responded at at least somewhat favorably to Andractim (and itās at least possible there were other benefits I didnāt fully realize), and so given my situation now, Iād see some potential value in trying it again.
This is an update about my experience with DHT supplementation so far. I am partially recycling a post I did on another thread. This is a more detailed version.
Before the DHT supplementation, I had low DHT - 175 pg/ml (300-850). I also had high Free T at 29.27 pg/ml (7.0 - 22.7) and high progesterone at 0.783 (up to 0.474). Everything else was normal. I should probably do a table with all tests I did.
Using a high dose Tribulus (6 x 750 mg) by itself for two weeks raises some of my hormones between 10 to 20%. For example, total T went from 21.45 to 23 nmol/l (9.9 - 27.8), Estradiol went from 80.4 to 95 pmol/l (41.4 - 159.00), LH went from 4.3 to 4.68 IU/l (1.70 - 8.6).
I feel the effect of Tribulus supplementation quite fast - within an hour - and it lasts for a couple of hours. I had not taken Tribulus for 12 hours before the tests were done so the tests underestimate the average increase due to Tribulus.
Then on top of the Tribulus, I added the transdermal DHT. I have been taking that for the past 2.5 weeks ā 20 drops of Andractorol (DHT solution, 12%), which should be around 120 mg of DHT.
There are some interesting things to report, although I am afraid not a resolution of core PFS symptoms such as lack of libido or ED. However positive effects are significant enough that I intend to continue despite the significant cost of the DHT product.
First and foremost, I have huge improvement in joint pain ā which used to be completely debilitating ā to the point where it is almost not an issue any more. The way it is going I think my joints may recover completely within a couple of weeks. The improvement was noticeable immediately on the second day of DHT supplementation. At one week, I could walk with no limit whereas before I had to limit any unnecessary movement and had days/weeks in which I could not leave the house due to extreme pain.
Even before I started DHT I knew that my joint pain was caused by weakness in the soft tissues surrounding the joints (ligaments, tendons and muscles). The pain spread along the muscle. It looks like DHT supplementation is having an effect on what appears to be androgen deprived soft tissues, which weakened the joints.
I also have increased aggression. This is bad - I am lowering the dose partly because of this. The rest is very good: better mood, more enthusiasm, stronger emotions, more hope, less anxiety, more calmness, more confidence, etc.
There appears to be a small but significant effect on libido, erection strength and orgasm strength. I also have increased morning erections, which is a good objective measure.
Tribulus acts in a similar way on libido/erections so I canāt disambiguate the effects very well. I am taking Tribulus alongside DHT in order to prevent reduction of HPTA hormones, which normally happens with DHT supplementation.
The other extremely noticeable effect is increased body odor.
The first day I took DHT there was a noticeable libido/erection boost. Prior baseline was zero so even a small effect would be noticeable. With continual use I consider the effect small but it might be increasing gradually.
My blood work has changed in the following manner following DHT supplementation:
Progesterone has dropped from 0.805 nmol/l to 0.541 (up to 0.474) and is almost in range now. This is a 33% reduction!
Estradiol has also dropped from 95 to 72 pmol/l (41.4 - 159.0), which is a 25% reduction.
DHT went up from 175 pg/ml to 605 pg/ml (300-850).
Free Testosterone went up from 29.27 to 32.32 pm/ml (7.0 - 22.7).
Total Testosterone stayed the same at 23 nmol/l (9.9 - 27.8).
SHBG went up from 33.4 to 56.08 nmol/l (18.00 - 54.00).
Note that I did not take Tribulus at the initial reported measurements of DHT, Free T, and SHBG but I did for the Estradiol, Total T and Progesterone.
My current DHT concentration is not huge at 605 pg/ml. I am reducing the dose partly because the aggression is a bit much and partly because of cost considerations. I am wondering however if achieving a much higher level of DHT (above 850 pg/ml) may not be needed in order to downregulate ARs. Any opinions on this?
An interesting phenomenon occurred when I tried to reduce my DHT dose from 20 to 10 drops a day. I did it cold turkey without expecting much of an effect. Within 24 hours of the reduction I experienced at first gradual and then sudden onset of something I could call a hormonal crash. I am not sure it was due to falling DHT levels or to rising progesterone and estradiol, as these are the hormones that have decreased the most following DHT supplementation.
The effects I experienced were palpitations, extreme shortness of breath, panic-attack like feeling, extreme anxiety and fear. It took me a while to recognize I was getting a reaction due to the change in DHT dose. I was shocked how strong the psychological effects were - a dramatic mental shift. I quickly took a catch-up DHT dose and all physical effects subsided within half an hour and disappeared within an hour. The psychological effects disappeared within 2 hours.
I have previously gotten a milder version of this hormonal shock but without the psychological effects when I increased Tribulus too much, which is making me think it has something to do with high estradiol/progesterone, although it might have something to do with testosterone as well.
So far I have seen a benefit with raising DHT (with a transdermal solution) and Testosterone (with Tribulus). I donāt know what will happen when I stop supplementation and what my new baseline would be.
Any questions, opinions and feedback are welcome.
Sibelio ā just wondering where/how are you applying the Andractorol?
I put it on the inside of my hands (arms?). 5 drops on each hand twice a day (20 drops total), and I smudge it using the other hand - not with my fingers so as not to waste any of it.
I have been slowly reducing the dose and I will see how it is at 8 drops a day. Read above about sudden reductions (not recommended). This thing is crazy expensive at 185 pounds a bottle, which is good for 6 week at standard dose.
The other reason I am reducing it is to reduce aggression which has already gotten me in some troubleā¦
Thanks. Iāve emailed All Saints to see if I can get it through them. They have a note on their site that Andractim is no longer available, but the picture is of a tube of cream ā not the liquid youāre using. Iām hoping they have that. Otherwise, not sure where to look.
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They are the only ones who have it, as they make it.
You should probably test your DHT before starting to supplement. They also ask that you do a PSA test to monitor your prostate.
Anyone have ifo on obtaining proviron or masteron
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Still doin this bruv?
The proviron i ordered never came