I would pay money for your sleep. I sleep zero minutes without drugs. And now I’m in the midst of some mysterious withdrawal (probably from drinking alcohol with sleep meds) . I’m trying to titrate down the booze and sleep on stuff that doesnt hit the same receptors. What a nightmare. I suspect I might actually end up in either rehab or the emergency room due to a AWS complication. Oh… and I have a heart condition that causes the heart to go into a dangerous arrhythmia under certain meds like Trazadone or Seroquel. It’s called QT Prolongation. If I die, I might be the first to actually die from PFS. I suspect my heart condition is PFS related. But I’m fighting the good fight.
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Update:
Monday night - Had a bit too much pistachios. That’s probably on a forbidden list as well, right? Slept for only 3.5 hours then 1.5 hours. Home ridden the entire day.
Tuesday night - Had too much tamari almonds. Oh, fuck, the soy!! Also had some blueberries. Oh, no. Getting palpitations again. Meditated for 45min before bed. After 2 hours of sleep, I’m wide awake making this post.
Never had such dramatic and severe reactions with these foods before eating those cacao nibs. Is post-fin chocolate really going to end me finally?
I have some temazepam lying around and I’m tempted to take it, but I’m afraid of frying away what gaba receptors I have left. Trazodone also makes my heart pulse and paranoid about fatal arrhythmias.
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For what it’s worth, it seems like we all have to work out what’s a trigger and what isn’t.
I eat chocolate most days.
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I was eating pure cocoa beans. What I had was incredibly high in flavonoids, alkaloids, or whatever the hell compounds that make chocolate chocolate and are suspected for its 5ari action, way beyond just dark chocolate. Some chocolate is probably fine, but somehow a tbsp of the stuff I took a day for 3 days triggered this extreme reaction.
I should also note that it gave me normal libido, morning wood, and normal ejaculatory force for only a day when I’ve had neither for months now.
Look at Navitas Cacao Nibs on the chart here:
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Thanks for the info!
Thanks for sharing @mercked. If there’s a sound basis to those measurements it does look like you were eating pretty flavonol-rich cacao. As always, this notable improvement followed by a worsening is (unfortunately) what we would expect, and what we have spelt out and posted caution about many times. It is clear that some cases of PFS are much more affected by even sometimes dietary levels and therefore we can only “officially” caution everyone to be extremely careful with antiandrogenic substances, even if they are taking it with confidence in some theoretical basis or for reasons a substance with antiandrogenic properties may be marketed by the nutraceutical industry.
Flavonoids have a marked antiandrogenic action and this is why people experiencing “PFS” after concentrated phenolic compounds are catered for here and in the survey. @Demon posted a couple of resources regarding this here:
I can only suggest that you give it some time and avoid foods with antiandrogenic properties - eg do lay off the soy and blueberries. I would expect it may take you a little while so I hope you’re taking it easy. If it’s any consolation, I don’t expect this will finish you off in and of itself - basing that upon the fact 1.5-3 hours is my “normal” sleep schedule with my degree of PFS, sadly.
All the best
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I was going to start making weight gainer shakes with Nutella. Good thing i saw this…
Thanks for this post. Funny how a random reddit post got me to take finasteride and another random reddit post got me to take chocolate for the purposes of fighting fatigue with no consideration of my post-fin background. The only improvement I had with the cacao was with sexual sides. I was sleeping worse since day one and did not connect any dots til two days later. How long of a ride do you think I’ll be in for? A few weeks? lashes_to_lashes’ (RIP) story is heart-rending and frankly really triggering of suicidal ideations. I worry extremely for how little sleep you’ve been getting. Sleep loss ought to be one of the all time worse sides of living with PFS from which all things can only deteriorate rapidly. What have you tried recently to get more and better sleep? Are you actively trying to do anything right now to try to fix it?
Maybe I should try to eating a lot of grass fed beef/animal fats and lay off the healthy plant-based eating life style for a while or something?
When ever I read posts like this I can’t help but think it’s a little over the top, same with posts I’ve read about people not using certain deodorants and soaps, and even peopke stop using plastic bottles, when will the madness end
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Yeah, your opinion is useless. No one cares.
plastic bottles are fine
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Trazodone causes me QT Prolongation for sure. I have a diagnosed partial AV block. This limits many of the sleep drugs like the anti-psychotics. Seroquel is a no no also. Ambien, Lunesta, Benzos… all are ok but not sustainable. Oleamide seems to work ok and acts on the canabanoid receptors. Kava kava can be pretty powerful but I’m not sure what if any cross tolerance it has with other things that are GABAgeric or Benzo.
Yes. We recommend staying away from any Flavonoids, they are very very dangerous.
I have been avoiding:
-soy sauce
-tofu
-teriyaki sauce
-brown rice
-green tea
-blueberries
-now chocolate
Ugh, this sucks. Green tea used to make me feel great and I love it, but not worth the risk I guess
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Wednesday night:
Meditated for 35 min before bed. Palpitations at bedtime. Could only sleep for 2 hours at a time. Woke up for 4 hours, went back to sleep for 2 hours, woke up again for almost an hour, etc, etc.
How long should I expect to endure this for??? Will I ever go back to baseline??? I can’t take it, I feel like this will finally end me.
So it turns out almonds and pistachios are the only nuts that contain flavanols, isohamnertin and quercetin. What a fucking curse this is. Can’t eat anything healthy, and if you do, you might completely lose your sleep drive and even end up killing yourself.
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Getting muscle tightness symptoms again, now in new areas of the body.
Day 9:
Slept a little over 2.5 hours again and couldn’t go back to sleep. I slept again for 3 hours after being up for a few hours like the past few days. I have been meditating before bedtime almost every night for the past 5 days. Meditation doesn’t seem to work for sleep maintenance but works very well for sleep latency in my case.
I have no more anxiety about sleep. I get palpitations when I wake up from my ‘second’ sleep. Initial time to fall asleep is decent. Still getting muscle weakness and tightness. Very tempted now to get a script for mirtazapine or a non SSRI AD to help stay asleep. Don’t know if I should try to see an endocrinologist?
Day 16:
What the fuck. I still have palpitations every night before bedtime. I still awoke a little after 3 hours of sleep as I’m typing this after failing to go back to sleep for over half an hour. I also woke up at 4 hours last night.
Not sure what I’ve done wrong. Might have overdone cardio and/or had a handful of pistachios and a huge leafy salad last with some grapes, apples, and oranges last night. I did have a tablespoon of sorghum daily for a week with my oatmeal but then I stopped. This bullshit is giving me orthorexia. I am completely fed up with this. I just might cave and ask to get on mirtazapine this week.
No all Flavonoids are 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, example Hesperidin and Diosmin. I am going to try both starting tomorrow.
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