Can you elaborate on this? Thanks.
A form of candida can inhibit tissues from responding to hormones…
…could possibly explain why we do not respond to androgens and some other hormones??
How in the hell can Propecia cause a gull on fungal infection???
Women are more prone to getting infections than men, because women have high estrogen levels and lower androgen.
By taking Propecia, the male androgen levels are lowered and the estrogen levels become more dominant. This hormonal environment would make us more susceptible to fungal infection like women are.
This would also explain how/why so many of us had a “crash” after a night of drinking/partying or during an illness. Also would explain why so many people have had rashes during and after their crash.
/soap box
DHT also is important for insulin sensitivity. Lowered DHT would mean lowered insulin sensitivity which would mean higher blood glucose levels. Candida and Fungi thrive on sugar!
Candida can also stimulate inflammation in the prostate by activating phospholipase A2, which then releases arachidonic acid (AA), which is then converted into Prostaglandin E2…a very potent prostate inflammatory compound!
Sorry for these posts in a row IHP, but I can not edit any of my posts. Mew feel free to move these into a separate thread!
can this theory about candida explain why i got much worse in the last month after doing penis enlargement exercises, particularly stretching? maybe something due to stretching penis nerves. Of course the androgen receptor damage theory can’t explain it. As a matter of fact i’m not sure stretching is the cause, there can be other 2 causes in addition to stretching and simply case that could have brought my worsening, but i think stretching is the most likely.
Great finds, Moonman, please keep the info/theories/thinking aloud coming.
It explains A LOT!
Excerpts taken from: thinksteroids.com/forum/mens-health-forum/x-propecia-user-bloods-134313387-2.html
This is interesting in the context of JG’s previously mentioned 3 year recovery from using Tamoxifen (aka Nolva) and its known strong antifungal properties in addition to anti-estrogen action.
Great find moonman!! Xhorndog, who is this from, a fin user? Was he only using Tamox? Haven’t many guys on here tried Tamox with no success. I myself have tried every hormone out ther but never Nolvadex.
Now wait a minute there moonman, i believe you have resolved your brain fog(judging by your previous posting) by using hydrocortisone, now that doesnt sound like something a candida sufferer would say.
Now makes me wonder how hydrocortisone would give improvements, if pfs is an infection of some sort, theoretically it should have put you off the map.
And another thought im having which im sure someone will answer, if this is a systematic candidia infection, how the hell is nystatin treating it?
Great question. I have racked my brain theorizing about this. I don’t know if it is systemic. Or exclusively fungal. I would guess it’s intestinal with intestinal permeability (past or present) possibly filtering to nearby DHT-deprived and therefore venerable uro-genital nerves and tissues. So it could be intestinal —> localized/organ infection.
• The “seeds” of infection could have been planted in a time of heightened immune venerability (finasteride usage/hormonal upheaval/estrogenic environment + other stress factors) and so even if the gut were theoretically later repaired, there could be a residual localized infection of damaged (DHT-deprived), unhealthy tissue (prostate, seminal vesicles, pudendal nerve, etc.).
• Maybe gut inflammation alone can be such a drain on the system that it would make hormones malfunction. Inflammation in the gut = inflammation in the brain.
• Or maybe the gut inflammation / edema is pressing outwards anatomically towards the pudendal nerve. (As suggested by Blase’s modified EMG testing referenced earlier in this thread).
• Or maybe it is just ongoing entrenched/deep-rooted candida permeability which sends toxins to and inflames uro-genital organs. Since antibiotics have cleared people’s prostate pain, I would say that the potential for the colon to infect the prostate is there. And if so, the colon could infect any nearby organ/tissue. Prime candidates for infectious susceptibility would be the organs/tissues that were MOST affected by androgen deprivation, and therefore presumably immuno-deficient.
• And there is the direct toxicity and endocrine-disrupting effect of Candida in and of itself.
• Or maybe it’s a combination of several of these things.
All of this is just utter speculation. I have no fucking idea what’s going on. I just know, as I’ve posted before, that I had rock hard morning erections return around spring of last year when I went apeshit with Nystatin dosing. And I can’t ignore this (or the positive reports from antifungal use by other PFS guys that prefer talking about this controversial topic offline). I got derailed from this treatment angle before because I over-thought the action of antifungals and went in a different treatment direction. (Search “Nystatin” on this forum for backstory if you care).
This time around, I’m gonna stick with Nystatin, but I’m confused at all the options…I’ve re-thought the wisdom of ketogenic (low-carb) diets (the typical anti-candida prescription), I’m contemplating lower overall caloric intake and/or fasting. I’m wondering if a significant part of IHP’s recovery was his reduction of digestive workload (very low caloric intake, and TONS of digestive enzymes). Presumably, in this Immune PFS (iPFS) theory, the body is in an overwhelming state of inflammation and immune distress. Chronic “fight or flight.” In this state, non-vital functions shut down (libido, reproductive system). The body is clinging on for dear life, it’s resources are being focused on fighting infection. Perhaps resting it as much as possible while “putting out the fire” in the intestines via Nystatin are good strategies. I don’t know. Just thinking aloud.
Yes, I know this is a bunch of gobbledygook but I’m starting with the fact that Nystatin has helped, and trying to reverse engineer why. So don’t shoot me for trying; the docs never helped me, it’s up to me.
Nystatin helped because of HDAC inhibition.
Secondamendment, when writing unproven, speculative theories/ideas like this one above, you have to use “I think”, verbs like “may” (“Nystatin may have helped because…”) etc… Like everyone else here.
Please realize you are confusing newcomers to this website that can think only some scientist in hold of hard evidences could be posting such definitive statements.
I think you are an idiot.
That better?
Well, at least that helps people understand who you are and better evaluate the worth of your posts/statements in light of this.
As I’ve posted before on this forum:
This explains my skin clearing up with Nystatin with zero need for topical treatment or containment.
And I think this is HIGHLY relevant to PFSers, because I notice A LOT of reports of dermatitis, psoriasis, eczema, hives and rashes.
Again, the significance of the intestines as a vital organ and an immune modulator CANNOT be underplayed. I do not know why this organ (which contains brain cells, btw) does not get the respect that the thyroid or liver or adrenals do. I guess it’s not sexy to think about shit. Well, I think it’s time to think about shit.
dermatitis is common in all that suffer Androgenetic alopecia
True, but many report outbreaks post-finasteride usage. And many report allergic-like reactions during their crash including hives and rashes as moonman alluded to previously. I went through this myself.
Ya, its pretty simple. Candida can cause major adrenal issues. By using hydrocortisone, I am just replacing any “cortisol” that my adrenals would normally make…therefore curing the brain fog issues from adrenal fatigue.
Xhorndog: thecandidadiet.com/ shows a pretty good idea of the steps to take to get rid of it. It looks nearly identicle to what IHP did, but outlays why and how exactly to go about the different steps. The sight even says that its doubtful you can get rid of cadida with diet a lone. One of the steps include the usage on nystatin and other antifungals…
Thanks dude. I’ve read a hundred thousand candida sites and articles on the so-called candida diet. I’m highly skeptical of most of them, and yes, none of them even claim that diet alone can do anything, nor have I ever been under the impression that it could; it’s typically promoted as being a foundation for recovery. In this respect, certainly excess sugar is to be avoided, and I’ve done that religiously. I’ve been eating a whole foods/paleo diet for a year and am a big fan. For significant portions of this time, I went ketogenic/very low carb/“anti-candida” but as I’ve expressed a few times in this thread, I’ve grown skeptical of that approach.
Very low carb (VLC) can be useful against bacterial infections, but fungus CAN feed off of ketones (see my earlier citation). There is also the question of whether excessive carbohydrate (glucose) restriction impairs the immune system more than it harms highly adaptable fungus. Then again, there’s the point of view of lower caloric intake resting the system. It’s all quite complicated and confusing.
Want more confusion? If you’re fighting auto-immunity and/or permeable intestines (i.e. in a critical/severe state), the safest diet would be a GAPS diet. You’d eat bone broths (gelatin), meats, cooked veggies. No grains, of course, as with Paleo. And no eggs, no dairy, no nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, red peppers)—as these are the most potentially allergenic foods, some of which have permeability-promoting properties that would normally be fine in a healthy individual. One year ago, before going paleo, before removing grains from my diet, I had IBS. This cleared up amazingly with the change in diet. Recent Genova Permeability testing (lactulose/mannitol test) revealed normal gut permeability function. I’ve learned, however, that testing for the presence of the Zonulin protein might be a clearer, more accurate marker of IP. So I’m conflicted: you don’t need gastro-intestinal symptoms (which I no longer have) in order to be gluten or grain-sensitive or have IP. And even if my recent testing is ok, there still could be a degree of IP that’s relevant in our ongoing inflamed states.
Ok, I’m rambling now, but the bottom line is that I’m not sure if eating my general, balanced, Paleo/Whole foods diet is the way to go. Or if I should emulate IHPs lower caloric intake/less digestive load. I AM going to consult with a specialist in this area in a month and consider their advice.
My advice to others is to consider all the angles, and not just trust a lot of the infomercial Candida sites. There are legitimate sources out there on this topic, and there are a lot of questionable ones.