Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone or 5ar2 antibodies.

[tim1911]

@bryce54

@moonman1

I have a close buddy who swears he suffers from “PFS”. Admittedly, he does have all of the exact same issues as us, but his issues came about directly during/after having pharyngitis for a week. The guy was the voted best athlete at our high school, then this turned him into what he calls “an a sexual zombie”. Testosterone has not helped at all, he has seen many of the same doctors that I have including doctor Crisler, but just like us no1 can explain it.

Anyways, that whole story has sort of always made me think that it is possible that an auto-immune or antibody reaction is the cause of this. I can’t even begin to imagine how/where to look into this though.

There’s another website called hardflaccid.org and many of the people there suffer similar symptoms to us in regard to sexual side effects. Their penis goes numb, it stays hard/rubbery, and they have no sex drive. They got it from doing penis exercises or I’m guessing over masturbation. I’m guessing what they have is inflammation… and it seems like what a lot of people have here as well.

Please refrain from derailing this thread.

[bryce54]

@tim1911

@bryce54

@moonman1

I have a close buddy who swears he suffers from “PFS”. Admittedly, he does have all of the exact same issues as us, but his issues came about directly during/after having pharyngitis for a week. The guy was the voted best athlete at our high school, then this turned him into what he calls “an a sexual zombie”. Testosterone has not helped at all, he has seen many of the same doctors that I have including doctor Crisler, but just like us no1 can explain it.

Anyways, that whole story has sort of always made me think that it is possible that an auto-immune or antibody reaction is the cause of this. I can’t even begin to imagine how/where to look into this though.

There’s another website called hardflaccid.org and many of the people there suffer similar symptoms to us in regard to sexual side effects. Their penis goes numb, it stays hard/rubbery, and they have no sex drive. They got it from doing penis exercises or I’m guessing over masturbation. I’m guessing what they have is inflammation… and it seems like what a lot of people have here as well.

Please refrain from derailing this thread.

Autoimmune problems result in inflammation reactions in the body, so nothing is getting off topic.

[tim1911]

Oscar have you seen this?

Allopregnanolone also appears to diminish proinflammatory activity of at least some immune cells, the researchers indicated. But unlike glucocorticoids, it lacks broad immunosuppressive effects – “hence, this and related molecules might provide new therapeutic options, devoid of the side-effects of common immunosuppressive therapies,” Power and colleagues wrote.

viewtopic.php?p=44486#p44486

It looks like allopregnenolone has an effect on the immune system?

Bryce please keep your autoimmune dribble on the other thread, this is for specific problems related to the mechanics of fin backed by scientific research. Thanks.

[Oscar]

Judging by those recent posts by Mew and awor Im guessing someone has tested low for Allopregnenolone. I think I posted a bit about this in other threads before.

Theoretically finasteride can cause neurological inflammation by lowering neurosteroids that are anti-inflammatory. Im sure that would not be good !

Its also true that if you have low 3aDiolG it stands to reason you will have low Allopregnanolone, they are made by the same enzymes (3aHSD).

…

I dont think thats the “root cause” of my problem. Why?

1. I got worse, and only developed brain fog, after stopping - when these neurosteroids should of returned.

2. I have applied DHT directly onto my penis with negative results.

I therefore believe I have developed an endocrine autoimmune disease as a result of using finasteride.

[tim1911]

@Oscar

Judging by those recent posts by Mew and awor Im guessing someone has tested low for Allopregnenolone. I think I posted a bit about this in other threads before.

Theoretically finasteride can cause neurological inflammation by lowering neurosteroids that are anti-inflammatory. Im sure that would not be good !

Its also true that if you have low 3aDiolG it stands to reason you will have low Allopregnanolone, they are made by the same enzymes (3aHSD).

…

I dont think thats the “root cause” of my problem. Why?

1. I got worse, and only developed brain fog, after stopping - when these neurosteroids should of returned.

2. I have applied DHT directly onto my penis with negative results.

I therefore believe I have developed an endocrine autoimmune disease as a result of using finasteride.

Oscar have a read of this, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC52442/

It shows the possibility of a 5ar2 antibody, because of its(5ar2) increased expression due to supplemented dht.
A 5ar2 antibody would explain low neurosteroids, if we infact have them.

[spstriken]

@Oscar

I dont think thats the “root cause” of my problem. Why?

1. I got worse, and only developed brain fog, after stopping - when these neurosteroids should of returned.

2. I have applied DHT directly onto my penis with negative results.

I therefore believe I have developed an endocrine autoimmune disease as a result of using finasteride.
.

I think you are not alone. Most of us followed this pattern. Symptoms become worse months after stopping and then keep getting worse and worse. I felt my first crash 1.5 months after and then got to peak 6 months after.

[tim1911]

These findings indicate that dihydrotestosterone itself controls prostate growth and 5 alpha-reductase activity. They further suggest that prostate growth is controlled by a feed-forward mechanism by which formation of trace amounts of dihydrotestosterone induces 5 alpha-reductase, thereby increasing dihydrotestosterone synthesis and triggering a positive developmental cascade.

Just an abstract from the above study.
If there is a 5ar2 antibody this is why we feel worse when supplementing dht?

[tim1911]

I wonder what the combination of dht and a corticosteroid would do. It may help with the sexual sides.
In theory dht should “get 5ar2 going” while the cortiscosteriod will suppress the immune system.
Worth a try right?

[Oscar]

I have been told by an administrator of Propeciahelp.com that there is no need to consider alternate theories as they are on the right track with their own investigations.

That can only possibly be said if there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last two weeks and they now know what is causing our/my health problems. I hope thats true.

[bluecloud87]

Fingers crossed, eh.

Is this the theory that you would say is the strongest Oscar?

Is there any particular drug therapy that you would have in mind to treat the antibodies?

[tim1911]

So joining the dots we either have

a) A problem with neurosteroids and/or

b) A problem with AR signaling

[bryce54]

@Oscar

I have been told by an administrator of Propeciahelp.com that there is no need to consider alternate theories as they are on the right track with their own investigations.

That can only possibly be said if there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last two weeks and they now know what is causing our/my health problems. I hope thats true.

can anyone elaborate on this??

[tim1911]

I have had one of the worst weeks sleep in my life and today i have had 3-4 spontaneous erections. I feel like shit but my erectile function appears somewhat normal.

These data implicate sleep in the modulation of immunity and demonstrate that even
a modest disturbance of sleep produces a reduction of natural immune responses and T cell cytokine production.

fasebj.org/content/10/5/643.full.pdf

This is the first study in human cells to show that nTreg number and function follow a rhythm across the 24-h period. Furthermore, sleep deprivation severely disturbs the functional rhythm of nTreg and CD4+CD25– T cells.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2675254/

So a lack of sleep will suppress the immune system.

[JN1]

If there is a 5ar2 antibody this is why we feel worse when supplementing dht?

DHT inhibits E2, especially when used excessively. A certain amount of E2 is required for good functioning.

JN

[JN1]

I have a close buddy who swears he suffers from “PFS”. Admittedly, he does have all of the exact same issues as us, but his issues came about directly during/after having pharyngitis for a week.

Exactly. The precipitant matters not in Chronic Fatigue syndrome. Whether it is pharyngitis/ CMV/ EBV/ death of a spouse/taking finasteride or accutane/a famine or otherwise.

When are people going to extract themselves from the tedious insular thought processes induced by this narrow minded website, and realise the bigger picture?

Why, I suppose this close buddy has 5AR2 antibodies? Maybe even pharyngitis induced AR dysregulation?

Please.

JN

[tim1911]

Jn not every sick person is sick via the same mechinism. Even though some symptoms overlap, your posting is starting to become very suspicious.

[moonman1]

@Oscar

I have been told by an administrator of Propeciahelp.com that there is no need to consider alternate theories as they are on the right track with their own investigations.

That can only possibly be said if there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last two weeks and they now know what is causing our/my health problems. I hope thats true.

Am i the only one shocked by this post!?

More info Oscar? Doesnt this basically mean that they know whats going on and we can just shut the fuck up for a while!?

[spstriken]

@tim1911

I have had one of the worst weeks sleep in my life and today i have had 3-4 spontaneous erections. I feel like shit but my erectile function appears somewhat normal.
.

Wow !
I thought many times to put the same experiment about my sleep but refrained as people might think I have gone crazy.
Yes the more sound sleep I have the more severe my sides get.
If sleep is not good, intially I feel bad but later part of the day is a lot better.

I am sure many more will certify this statement.

[ehh]

@Oscar

I have been told by an administrator of Propeciahelp.com that there is no need to consider alternate theories as they are on the right track with their own investigations.

That can only possibly be said if there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last two weeks and they now know what is causing our/my health problems. I hope thats true.

That’s really good news then.

[golf]

@ehh

@Oscar

I have been told by an administrator of Propeciahelp.com that there is no need to consider alternate theories as they are on the right track with their own investigations.

That can only possibly be said if there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last two weeks and they now know what is causing our/my health problems. I hope thats true.

That’s really good news then.

that depends… could lead to the negative or positive conclusions/diagnosis