There’s another guy believe his name was John he was on the PFS podcast claims to have been cured by exercise, clean living and trt
Yes, all three. Clean food, exercise and raising androgen, it seems to be the case in lots of recovery.
I personally don’t advocate for direct testosterone supplementation. It makes the body lazy and produce less T naturally and can result in people needing to constantly supplement with exogenous testosterone, in some cases for life. I tried oral TRT and it got me very aggressive and irritable. I had to stop.
in February this year I did low dose HCG for 6 months. My testicles have grown in size and the results are persistent after I stopped HCG. Weight lifting is also a natural way of raising T levels and eating certain food while avoiding others is a great way to increase overall androgen levels.
Search 43 best ways to increase DHT to get some great suggestions.
There are many ways to increase androgen without directly taking testosterone supplement. Note that in the video you posted, the guy says oral TRT didn’t work for him while T cream did. This is because 5ar cell are abundant in the skin. 5ar type 2, which is responsible for DHT production, is mostly produced at the root of hair follicles, hence the problem with 5ar and balding.
Applying T cream, DHEA cream, progesterone cream and androsterone (an oily substance) on body hair would ensure greater contact with 5ar type 2. Pubic hair, scrotum, chest hair, beard hair are all places where 5ar would be abundant and hair loss not as dramatic as on the head. Not that I think there’s a link between those product and losing hair, but in case there was, I’d prefer losing pubic hair than those on my head.
I will say it again, increasing androgen will most likely make people feel worst. If someone is in bad shape already, I would not advise getting worst. I personally have done this because I was already better through clean food and exercise and I wanted my body to adapt to higher androgen. It seems to be working, in the last few days, I started feeling visceral sex drive (as in no choice, bite my lips, compulsory sex drive where girls attract me and there’s nothing I can do about it). Sensitivity is much better and sex is more connected. At the same time, motivation and ambition is coming back. It’s anecdotal, doesn’t mean it’s related or others would have the same results, but nonetheless I’m happy to get that.
I had normal to high testosterone levels for the first 15 years after PFS, for some reason I got in really good shape was eating healthy and they dropped below 300 and never recovered. I didn’t notice how low energy I was till I took tlando for trt. It got me back to my baseline again, some people can’t control testosterone even with clean living. My theory is that I’m not using the amount of testosterone because AR receptor is down regulated so my body stopped producing as much.
So your body adapted by lowering T instead of adjusting AR expression. It makes sense to me to do some androgen supplementation. What happened when you did ?
It got my testosterone to the 500 and dht is way high, it helped my depression and energy but sexual sides remain. I do want to mention anyone taking trt should also donate blood to dump red blood cells and also you should monitor your blood pressure if you go on trt it has a tendency to raise a bit. Otherwise no negative side effects to trt besides your body becoming reliant on it
You T is still in the normal range. Is your DHT within range ? It’s difficult to predict which way the body will react: tune down AR sensitivity or tune down androgen production ?
I raised my T to 1209 and I used HCG to have my testes produce the T naturally (even though the LH signal was artificial). Normal T range is 227 - 972 (265 - 923 from another source). My DHT is within range, above average. I stopped HCG so I now have to test if my body reduced LH production, considering it could not reduce natural T production. There’s no test to check the AR that I know of except maybe with a biopsy and looking their shape under a microscope. Not in my budget and not conclusive IMO.
I’m still testing and I haven’t finished. My aim is to reverse the over-expression of the AR by flooding them with androgen above normal levels (which is what made me sicker to begin with). At the moment sex drive is one or two a day, no ED, sensitivity and especially sexual connection is better but really not 100% yet. At least I can now have enjoyable, connected climaxes which felt disconnected before (if I could have them at all). I’m not done with my experiment yet. I did manage to reduce sleeping meds: hydroxyzine from 30mg to 10mg, clonazepam from 4mg to 2.5mg. Sleep is adequate.
I posted better sexual results in the past but they didn’t stick. I have no way to say if this time will be different. It’s usually not. Overall things are slowly getting better though.
I won’t give up. I’ll continue testing my theory and posting my results.
My dht is 1275, range 106-719 yeah it’s crazy high. Strange I get no symptoms of hair thinning or any prostate issues from high dht. I have the same theory cutting my dht with propecia caused the problem trying to flood my body with androgens to reverse it. Also trying to lose fat to keep estrogen down too deadly to use anastrazole on trt. My range at my doctors office for testosterone is 300 - 900 I was at 291 so just barely under but I did test in the morning when my testosterone is supposed to be the highest so maybe it was even lower then that different times of the day
It makes sense that if your DHT is so high your T would be low. It would suggest lots of T converting to DHT. It could also suggest 5ar being abundant or 3a-HSD being low.
Do you have problem sleeping ? And do you know your progesterone levels ? To produce allopregnanolone you need both 5ar and 3a-HSD.\
There’s natural ways to keep estrogen low: Fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K2), Androsterone, Aspirin and Tongkat Ali. Some of those have caused people to get worst as they increase T. Caution is advised.
Hey, ozeph，my progesterone dropped to 0.32 after the crash, it was 1.67 before taking the pill, my testosterone didn’t change much in comparison, I measured it two days after the crash, what does this mean?
My sleep is pretty regular I only have a problem if I take 5-htp in the evening, i take it because I have low serotonin and dopamine according to a neurotransmitter test. I know there’s mixed opinions on those tests
I’m not sure. Pregnenolone (from cholesterol) is transformed into Progesterone by the enzyme 3b-HSD.
5ar, 3a-HSD and 3b-HSD are all enzymes involved into the production of sexual hormones, important neurosteroids and much more. Finasteride creates a mess of varying degree to those enzymes. Both 3a-HSD and 3b-HSD are used by cells in their process to produce energy.
Is lack of energy one of your symptoms ? You may be low on one or both of those enzymes.
It’s not much of an answer. I too am low on Progesterone too and I believe it’s part of what cause my insomnia. I did find pure Progesterone and pure Allopregnanolone. I’ll receive my parcel within a week and test if I can turn Progesterone into Alopregnanolone in my body. The pure Allopregnanolone is just to have something to compare to so I know what it feels like to have Allo back.
In my opinion, this is just fiddling with secondary symptoms. The main one is AR over-expression caused by an androgen deprivation therapy, Finasteride for example, sold as a hair loss treatment. Other substances can cause the same results as we all know.
I don’t know if that helps but at least you know you’re not alone.
It’s good you can sleep (without 5-HTP.).
The Serotonin / Dopamine ratio is important. I used to take both 5-HTP (100mg) and Dopamine (Mucuna Prurien 450mg) in the morning. I had motivation problems, felt bored and unemotional.
I stopped 5-HTP and took only Dopamine and the results were much better. I sleep better (but still not fully), feel happier, I’m more motivated and take initiatives more spontaneously. I tried different ratios and one dose of 450mg of Mucuna Prurien is the best so far. I speak about my case as indication of what an imbalance would look like.
Unfortunately pure allo does not have bioavailability like the drug being marketed does. Sometimes it’s the same. In this case it is not.
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do you have the link?
I take Mucuna Pruriens extract, 450mg, which contains L-Dopa, the precursor to Dopamine and it works for me.
I get L-phenylananine from a mix of Essential Amino Acids I take every day (15g of EAA). I get good benefits from EAA. D-phenylananine is made in a lab and didn’t go well with me when I tried it alone. I never tried DL-phenylananine so I can’t tell. What are your results with it ?
I ll say I am 98 percent recovered. I only have mild fatigue now.
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I feel 95% my normal self now when it comes to cognition, memory, sleep, anxiety symptoms. Although my vision and hearing seems permanently degraded still. I’m 3.5 months post stopping topical finasteride (0.3% in 0.5ml 2xs daily for 7.5 weeks.) So, anxiety, panic attacks, distracting brain weirdness/numbness, cognition and memory impairment, fight or flight sensations throughout night interrupting sleep after only 2 hour segments, etc all are 95% better now. The last couple weeks of targeting discrepancies and abundances in my body with natural supplements seem to really be helping. Here’s what I’m doing that is having the most positive effects that are targeting my specific blood, urine and saliva tests including hormone and neurotransmitter tests. I’m 5’10” and 140lbs.
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Boron 6mg (2mg 3xs daily) Blood tests 3 weeks ago showed I have high SHBG levels and normal free Testosterone. This means my body has probably less free T than the test shows that my tissues can use due to too much SHBG.
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L-Theanine 300mg (100mg 3xs daily) Urine test 2 weeks ago shows I have very high Dopamine, Epenephrine, and GABA levels. Theanine supposedly helps balance all of those.
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Vitamin C and D daily, B complex (as Methyl B Complete nightly before bed) Urine test showed low levels of Seratonine. Vitamin D essential there although I tried 5-HTP and felt super weird. Vitamin B also essential for sleep?/cortisol? I know blood test showed I have high Homostyceine levels which means a B12 deficiency.
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Also taking daily multivitamin and daily probiotic just as a fail safe.
Will update with further progress or changes.
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I made an appointment with Dr Pierre Marc Bouloux in London while I was visiting. He met me over a video call as I had already returned to the USA. Here is a summary of our call today:
April 18, 2024 Call Purpose:
Discuss Dr. Boulous’s experience treating patients suffering from post-finasteride syndrome (PFS) and get his insights on my own experience with PFS.
Topics Discussed:
Dr. Bouloux’s Background Treating PFS Patients:
- Has seen 300 PFS patients over the years, first trying to get drug manufacturers interested in researching it.
- Symptoms range from sexual side effects to emotional/neurological issues.
- Tried analyzing personality traits and factors to find commonalities but difficult without a proper control group.
- Research is limited and flawed without comparing susceptible vs non-susceptible patients.
My PFS Experience:
- Tried supplements like 5-HTP and GABA before getting cortisol and neurotransmitter test results.
- Tests showed high GABA so I stopped taking it.
- Feelings of fight-or-flight at night disrupt sleep and exacerbate symptoms.
- Cortisol test results may be hard to interpret without circadian rhythm context.
Moving Forward:
- 30-40% of Dr. Bouloux’s patients recover close to normal eventually.
- My regimen seems reasonable for now since it’s helping and is non-toxic.
- Plateau first before withdrawing supplements one by one to see if still needed.
- Omega-3 fatty acids are neuroprotective and I should keep taking them.
Next Steps:
- Continue current supplement regimen.
- Plateau first before slowly withdrawing supplements.
- Continue taking neuro-anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids for neuroprotection.
- Provide periodic updates to Dr. Bouloux on progress.
Action Items:
- Repeat hormone tests, cortisol measurements, neurotransmitter levels, proteomics, and genomics when symptoms improve to establish a baseline for comparison (Sounds like he wants this data to add to his growing file of PFS patients.)
- Withdraw supplements one by one every 1-2 months and monitor any changes: probiotics, Methyl B Complex vitamins, L-Theanine amino acids, and Boron. Continue omega-3 supplementation
- Send a summary report and keep in touch periodically via email
Dr Bouloux thinks $10 million would pay for the kind of study needed on humans with baseline tests before starting Fin and then ongoing tests periodically during and after use, especially on those who see no side effects versus those who do. He says most studies haven’t tested those who have taken Finasteride with no side effects.
I’m wondering if we could petition some lawmakers in Congress to try to introduce a bill that would require this study to be conducted and funded by the companies who sell Finasteride products. They could attach it to a spending bill or something and get this research done!
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