I know next to nothing regarding the science of what’s happened to us, but I’m intrigued by your suggestion, tab. I know that prazosin (an alpha blocker) has had the most positive effect of all treatments I’ve tried and has been the longest lasting helper for my condition as it has restored some of my deficiencies (e.g. flaccid size most days, small libido boost) so I wonder if maybe it’s restoring part of my body’s ability to function normally…and theoretically, if that were the case, then hcg would stand a better chance of working. Now this is all my own speculation coupled with my own trace amounts of scientific knowledge. But I do like the premise.
My actual thoughts, relating to what finasteride done in general:
Finasteride induced prostate atrophy and this turn out to inflammation issues (eventually asymptomatic and extended to urethra, primary and/or secondary genitalia). Atrophy of the prostate might be consistent with “urinary tract hypertension” (would be helpful to take the exams they suggest).
Inflammation issues and lack of blood flow to primary genitalia (due to low testosterone/dht, acquired androgen insensitivity and to the above mentioned hypertension) might impair success with hcg. Even if hcg may increase testosterone and dht levels, slight improvement may be seen: in fact…
… androgens are obviously important in sexual maturation of the brain. Absence of androngens during puberty years will impede the development of male characteristic brain patterns related to sexuality. Elevated oestrogen dominance will conversly generate female carachteristic brain patterns.
These patterns also are very important in regulation of sexual physiology. The use of finasteride not only lowered drastically the concentration of DHT (10 to 30 times more potent than T) impeding brain sexual maturation and adaptation; in many cases it also altered the testosterone to estradiol ratio in favor of estradiol. So, not only “damage” to brain patterns regulating sexuality is pretty plausible, but a feminization of these patterns is also plausible. For persons who used finasteride for long time, years I mean, this kind of “damage” might follow some low of proportionality going with time and obviously it will be harder to recover. That this is reversible to some extent, we all know it: the revenge of dht, unless you have low T, I guess will probably “remasculinize” brain and sexual/urological organs over time. However the hormonal balances that finasteride produced during therapy are far more aggressive in the feminization direction than the ones of POST therapy in the masculinization direction. I think, at least in cases of years of finasteride usage, it might be important to boost hormonal androgens while still in the youth: this will produce a countermove rather than a passive wait that may fail since metabolism decreses with years.
My endocrinologue said me these guys from finasteride are predominantly young and appear to have been left in a prepubertal condition. This is somewhat consistent with the concept of brain sexual maturation. While you get older it gets probably harder to “rewind the tape” with finasteride beacuse sexual characteristics are more consolidated, while it gets easier the more young you are. However, take it for 10 years, and even if you’re 40-50, I bet you will have problems too.
Returning to the testosterone (or dht if you like best, well I do) boosting approach I’m considering, this may have two main autcomes: treatment of androgen insensitivity (if present) as many pointed out and as suggested by Dr. Chrysler, and speeding of brain sexual differentiation in the favor of androgenic physiology. Hopefully this may also restore some sort of normal values in neurosteroids. An equilibrium condition might come over time after androgenic treatment and pct, although you may never be like you were before finasteride (maybe better why not?).
So I guess it is important to treat everything at a time. Using alfa blockers will relief symptoms, but will cure nothing I think, at least not in the short term. They may relief inflammation and allow hcg to work better. However brain sexual maturation has to be taken into account as this will control post treatment behavior. Also prostate athrophy: I guess there will be the need for supraphysiological testosterone to rebuild preceding dimension.
Anyone knows if persons treated with supraphysiological T (or DHT) for an extensive period of time (say one year), had partial or total success after discontinuation and PCT?
This is what my mind says me at this moment to better discuss treatment options with my andro-endocrinologue. Please take it just as an opinion constructed on what I read in these months and I reported just for the sake of discussion. There naturally may be very big holes in this reasoning and it’s surely debased by simplicistic terms and a lack of time in providing scientific references. The following book however gave me some interesting insights about sexual plasticity of the brain; in just about a chapter relating to sexuality.
Neuroscience, Fifth ED, Dale purves
Ive managed to increase my testicle size. I went on a 4 day fast were I just drink orange juice, also I took iodine and vitamin d, I even put iodine liquid on my testicles.
I’m not sure what worked but my testicles are definitely bigger but their still not back to their original size and my right testicle is bigger than the left one.
How long have they been shrunk?
Iodine on the balls… must have felt awesome…
They shrunk in August.
Yeah Iodine isnt pleasant but its worth it if it helps them grow.
The Iodine I got is only 2% none of the health food stores I went to had a higher strength so I ordered the 15% strength Iodine off the internet but I wont have that for about 2 weeks Ill report back here if I see improvements from using the 15%. But I think the 4 day fast is probably what has helped me the most.
I wonder if it will help any of us whose testicles have been shrunken for years.
Only one way to find out Broken!
Haha, I would experiment with it but Iodine on the nuts just sounds painful and risky. I’d rather have my boys small for now than have them hurting/burning with little idea of the optimal application and even smaller hope for success. Glad to hear you’re making gains though Mark. Hope they sustain and get even better.
I tried the iodine, very slight progress. I think his fasting may have helped more than anything.
Hey guys - I am back; have not been to the site in like a month as I’ve been travelling, etc. No real progress to report with the exception of a one week vacation. I started the vacation using some ED meds and alpha blockers and had good size on package and testicles throughout. Seems sex with a woman does not shrink my boys as much as masturbation. Also, had huge amounts of sun and warm temps which always helps. Since being back mr small has returned…
Who here besides me has tried HcG with little or no effect?
Exactly the same sort of thing happened to me. Disappointing.
I don’t suffer from shrinkage (yet) however I can relate to the vaction thing and almost being normal, does anyone have any idea why this is? It seem to be common thing for some of us.
Same experience here.
I had made very sufficient progress (maybe 70% back to normal) but now there starting to shrink again and I dont why.
@ the guys who are on vacation and some improvement, i have a few questions for you.
how long are you guys indoors typically or what type of weather environment do you live in when you are not on vacation? also, would you say that during your vacations you were walking around barefoot much more than you would while you are at your regular place of residence? like do you goto vacations to beaches when you actually live no where near the ocean? mostly looking for how often you walk barefoot on both vaction and home life and what ytpe of weather were during both?
inb4 wat doez dis hav 2 do wit 5ar inhibitorz
Live indoors alot in an unsunny place. Vacations to beach areas. None in my area. Walk barefoot mostly on vacation.
I made some notes just after my vacation last year, speculating about my improvement. For what it’s worth, here are some possible explanations…not saying any one of these is the holy grail…not at all. just stating my observations.
could have to do with walking barefoot. pretty much what “earthing” or “grounding” does is help to improve your body’s anti oxidant work on a substantial level. i all ready suspect we have some serious free radicals roaming around doing nothing good… (moonmans test results showed high free radicals actually, but not sure if anyone else got a similar test)
the whole junk food thing is another thing i have considered also. carbs have a weird effect that i haven’t understood yet. because over time if you eat junk food and a lot of carbs, you will get worse. but if you eat very, very healthy and then eat chow down… you will have a spike of feeling normal and better in SOME circumstances because i have experienced it. but other times it doesn’t happen. i still haven’t made the link… but i don’t think it is any kind of recovery because again, over TIME it doesn’t help… but temporarily it does…
Have any of you tried the “ball zinger”? It sounds like quackery but I’ve seen quit a few positive reviews…
The ball zinger did not work for me - the only positive is it kept my balls forward a bit vs. retreating.
I’m sorry but the ball zinger thing is a joke to me. I bought it for it to help and I actually think it made me smaller. That or I started using it at the onset of my shrinkage and it was bad timing. Either way, it didn’t help, and I’m thinking for guys in our condition, it’s not likely to do otherwise. But these are just my thoughts. I guess anything’s worth a try to every different guy here.