Short-term Recovery with Choline, Inositol, Cod liver oil, Phenibut

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#104

Vit-A is obviously abit anti-androgenic if you believe moonchild. But choline and betaine should be fine. I think it works because it somewhat reduces estrogen. I would try amino acids too if I were you and maybe hope on a keto / carnivore diet for at least several weeks.

I know excatly what you mean. Its because the symptoms are reduced so much, that you have to think about what details are different to prepfs. There are only two things I still miss. Mental sexual arousal, getting aroused mentally by seeing attractive woman, its odd, because my sexuality somewhat moved to my penis, so I get morning woods and spontanous erections, but my brain isnt as aroused. Secondly the ability to sleep without waking up, its usuall fine within the first 5 hours of sleep and then I constanly wakingup and fall asleep again, also have vivid dreams during that phase. Keto diet seems to help.

#105

Which combo ? Vit- A, Betaine, Choline or L-Dopa, Tyrosine, 5-HTP ?

The first one will lower you estrogen which prevents inhibiting your T. So yes, you might get a reaction from better expressed T. But it does not increase T. Iā€™m not so sure about vit-A. I read somewhere it does increase T but if so not in a large measure. Moonchild says otherwise so who knows.

As for L-Dopa (Mucuna Pruriens), L-Tyrosine and 5-HTP, they donā€™t increase T. They fix neurological symptoms like brain fog, motivation, depression, confidence etcā€¦

But this is all trivial and nothing fundamental. Itā€™s add ons. The main thing to do, and itā€™s safe, is to go ketogenic / carnivore. Eat mostly unprocessed meat with salt, drink water, eat lots of saturated fat (ghee, butter, lard, tallow) as they will be your source of energy. As for plants, limit yourself to spinach, kale, lettuce, cucumbers, avocados, and donā€™t take more than 200 gr a day. You can eat up to 500 gr of meat a day and some 200 ml of saturated fat. That will make you ketogenic.

Considering your condition is not moderate, I would consider the diet more than taking supplements. Itā€™s a more balanced, overall approach.
The first 2-3 days of the diet is hard, the first week medium, and it takes a months to fully adapt. I never heard of anyone getting his pfs symptoms getting worst from this diet. But than again, I didnā€™t hear everything.

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#106

Yes, exactly. Just a few differences. I still have a bit of anhedonia. I donā€™t have the zest of life I had before and I have the same sleep pattern as you. And Iā€™m taking sleeping pills. I donā€™t know what I look like without the pill and I wonā€™t find out before 8 months, as I need to decrease benzodiazepine dosage by 1/8th per month.

I get aroused by looking at girls and have my body odors, but it depends which herb Iā€™m cycling. Tribulus Terrestris seems better for sex drive, horny goat weed for body odors and pine pollen for androgen. As it goes, the effects of each others seems to carry over to the next herb as I cycle them so that can only be good.

#107

Iam hypersexual at the moment, very odd. I think this is due to mucana puriens, it contains l-dopa which pretty much causes most of my symptoms. Unlikely that choline and betaine did this alone, took only one dose and that was 1 week ago.

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#108

Well its good news? How about your orgasm intensity/build up and mental excitement from seeing a woman?

#109

I dont know. I researched a bit and apparently maca puriens (l-dopa) has some effect on testosterone via reducing prolactin which is bascially a hormon which reduces libido, it rises after an orgasm for example. So I can pretty much ejaculate or having an orgasm 15 times and more, typical symptom of low prolactin I would presume. I tried caberglobine which is basically a dopamine agonist but it didnt do anything for me.

Its a bit weird now, because my refractory period is actually shorter than prepfs, and orgasms are better even compared to pre pfs. Sensitivity is good too. The only compound is that my mental excitement is still reduced, hard to explain, but everything is concentrated on my penis now, its like something is missing which stimulates me mentally. In the bigger picture it is probaly a minor thing, its just that one compound of my libido is missing.

And this current state is distressful because my libido is absurd high, I can literaly masturbate the entire day. So I will reduce the dosage of mucana or take it eod.

PFS is a strange condition that absolute makes no sense to me.

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#110

Pretty sure Iā€™m about to be amazon prime 1 dayā€™ing all the maca puriens they have, haha. Iā€™d kill to be hyper sexual and overly orgasmic for a bit

And is the correct spelling ā€œmucuna pruriensā€? Just want to be sure.

#111

I am on mucuna pruriens now. The only thing I noticed for sure is that its very potent mood enhancer and alleviates any negative thoughts or depression. So my mind feels calm and quite balanced. But no sexual changes so far.

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#112

Slick, i am going to order it too! But im too scared of this. I donā€™t want to risk myself. And as far as i know many people crashed further using Dopamine and Serotonin supplements. (5-HTP for example) Should i really give a try for my sexual problems and libido? I donā€™t have any mood problems. I donā€™t want to mess my dopamine up.

Im gonna order Taurine and Betaine+Cod liver too.

#113

From my experience its nothing like 5HTP . I tried 5HTP once and it was very bad on a brain. Brain fog and anxiety lasted 1 day. And i dont have much of a big mood problems but mucuna still gives a noticeable boost of alertness. I will continue taking it carefully in hope of sexual improvements.

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#114

Guys, should I stop mucana puriens or should I continue to take it? Iam not sure. Its the first thing that showed consistent improvement for me but Iam curious what will happen if I stop taking it.

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#115

Mucuna Pruriens in general should not do you anything bad aside of boosting your dopaminergic system, which it seems in most PFS cases is super low. I think you should try it.

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#116

Just a thought: Dopamine, Serotonin and Tyrosine are interdependant.

Taking only one of the 3 can deplete the others.

A good example is taking 5-HTP alone, without 10x the 5-HTP dose of L-tyrosine.

L-Tyrosine removes brain fog so taking 5-HTP without it could result in depleted Tyrosine and brain fog.

A milder replacement for 5-HTP 100 mg is Tryrophan 1000 mg (on an empty stomach)

#117

got worse again. My improvement lasted close to two weeks which is new record when it comes to duration and quality. Iam not even sure what causes it.

l-dopa is interesting because it reduces prolactin. Betaine and choline only have an effect if there is an a huge timespan between intakes. I think its best to stop supplementing at some point and then reintroduce them, because I get better when I stop the intake of certain things too or I just build up a tolerance.

today somrhign weird happen, I realised that I had increased numbness and low sex drive then I slept for 2 hours and it seemed way better. Kind of scary that symptoms vary so much even during one day.

#118

What were you doing prior to this improvement?

#119

I take tribulus but not consistently, so I take it and then stop it. I took betaine+choline+codliveroil, EAAs, mucana puriens.

#120

Canā€™t be of much help but Choline works by increasing Acetylcholine levels in the brain, which could modulate Dopamine. I, among many others, belong to a subset of people that have naturally high Acetylcholine so taking extra Choline makes me depressed as hell with low sex drive & lethargy.

Reddit is full of similar stories. The addition of Inositol could partially negate potential Choline sides, not sure either. Btw, eggs are loaded with Choline so extra supplementation isnā€™t necessary.

Iā€™m also having this rollercoaster effect. Maintaining high libido & good mood have been a mystery.

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#121

Im going to use Taurine and cod liver oil, will post my results here few weeks later.

#122

I canā€™t recommend enough that yall should take 500mg L Phenylenanine and 1000mg L-Tyrosine twice daily before meals. Iā€™ve obviously bought my fair share of shit during the last 2 years but Iā€™ve got to say these are for sure the most impactful that Iā€™ve tried.
For me it seems that PFS was two beasts:

  1. Low Testosterone
  2. Low dopamine

I had been on antidepressants for a while before PFS, and have now ceased them, but noticed that I really fluctuated with energy levels. Through some testing, I found it wasnā€™t seratonin related (felt like shit any time i fucked with seratonin) but felt great whenever I fucked with dopamine.
So I decided to use this combo indefinitely.
Separately, as you know, I started with the tribulus cycle and did thia for about 2 weeks. Interestingly, tribulus was the first herb i bought two years ago, and now, itā€™s the last one Iā€™ve used because after stopping, my T levels have remained high and my estrogen dropped back down.

Feeling good right now. Cautiously optimistic. But so far, I have high libido, and Iā€™m getting hard talking to women, I have great energy, I want to do things (woodwork, work out, etc). Whatā€™s also cool is that when PFS started I picked up guitar and dove in and got really good at it, but with my testosterone back online I havenā€™t touched it. So Iā€™m also noticing certain things change about myself after this swing of the pendulum.

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#123

Taurine, which is a Sulphur based amino acid, is
also a methyl donor and can help produce a state of calmness and relaxation. Its good for those who experience symptoms of anxiety.

That said, it has some powerful mind quieting properties and while initially it produces positive effects it later may results in apathy & anhedonia that translate to low libido and motivation (signs of reduced Dopamine).

If needed, try lower doses (~500mg) and do not take it for a prolonged period. It also stimulates bile acids formation.