Scott's Story - Age 31, loss of everything


#1
  1. Where are you from (country)?
    USA

  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
    Looking up effects of TRT for Finasteride use

  3. What is your current age, height, weight?
    Age:31
    Height: 6’2”
    Weight: 214

  4. Do you exercise regularly? If so, what type of exercise?
    Try and exercise everyday, if not every other. I now lift heavy weight, 3 sets of 8, increasing weight over time. I also sprinkle in HIIT and cardio as well, but focus on weight lifting for its effects on Testosterone.

  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?
    Try and stick very close to Paleo as possible. Usual rules, Fish/lean meats, lots of vegetables, some quinoa and brown rice. No bread.

  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
    Couldn’t get control of my hairloss.

  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?
    2.5 months

  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?
    I was 31, and started taing Finasteride in Feb. 6 2017

  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
    Quit ~2.5 months later when symptoms become terrifying, around April 25 2017

  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
    Cold Turkey

  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?
    Proscar

  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
    Half a pill of Proscar

  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
    About 2-3 weeks in

  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?
    Complete loss of libido and interest in sex
    Complete loss of spontaneous erections
    Half-hard, very weak erections
    When I do get erections, I reach orgasm almost immediatley when masturbating or during sex. Used to last around 10-15 minutes, now I last 2-3 minutes

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[ X] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[ X] Erectile Dysfunction
[ X] Complete Impotence
[X ] Loss of Morning Erections
[X ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[ X] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
[X ] Reduced Ejaculate
Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ X] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
Severe Depression / Melancholy
Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
    No actual prescribed treatments, just the usual exercise and methods to increase to Testosterone

  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?
    Had a blood test, but no actual alteration in Hormones according to doctor.Testosterone was at around 400.

  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?
    Not anything out of the ordinary according to other stories on the site. I’m fairly young and thought this would never happen to someone my age; I was very wrong.

  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I took Finasteride/Propecia for hair loss for a little over 2 months and now I barely have any sex drive and rarely get erections (this is 7 months after stopping the medication). I would do anything to reverse the effects that Finsateride has had on my body and I’m really unsure what to do about it aside from reading the common advice. I’ve exercised myself to death, I’ve lost over 12 pounds, I now have a six pack and am in the best shape of my life, but nothing has changed in regards to my libido and ability to get erections. It is as if the Finasteride has has some permanent effect on the 5a reductase inhibitor and the conversion to DHT. I’ve read some articles and it feels as if I can increase my testosterone all i want through tried and true methods, but it will never get converted to DHT which is (from my understanding) what I need for a sex drive. Before Finasteride, all I could think about was women (I’m 31) and I had an above average sex drive, went on dates constantly, and constantly got strong erections. Furthermore, erections are about 60-70% where they used to be in terms of strength. My penis is actually getting smaller, I know that might be hard to believe, but my entire penile region seems to have decreased in girth and size, testicles included. I don’t ejacuatle nearly as much as I used to, and when I do, it does not “shoot” out any longer, it simply drizzles out. The entire enterprise of sex has really lost its luster since taking the medication.

I’ve also noticed a lot of weird things happening in my mind. I forget what I was thinking about a lot, oftentimes mid-sentence and takes a minute to get back to the point. At first I thought this was just a phase but it seems to have stuck and it looks like a common problem among others in this community. I haven’t had much else in terms of Brain fog, but just a general lack of motivation; not sure if this is due to my loss of libido or something else but it’s definitely noticeable over time. I think what has really had the most effect though is the complete loss of any kind of interest in women at all. It’s altered my entire identity and I really don’t find much joy in the other sex whatsoever any longer. It’s incredibly depressing.

I understand that taking Cialis or Viagra temporarily cures these symptoms, but that seems to avoid the actual issue at hand, what is the way that I can actually get my drive and mind back to where it was before? It’s been 7 months since I stopped taking the medication and there seems to be little change whatsoever, in fact my penis literally is shrinking. If anyone out there knows what to do, I’m absolutely dying to know.

Things I’ve tried :

  • Extreme workouts to exhaustion for extended periods of time, HIIT workouts and heavy heay weights. In some of the best shape of my life now.
  • Both 5:2 diet and 16 hour intermittent fasting diet with only protein, vegetables, high fiber grain and fruit
  • Grape seed extract with every meal
  • Zinc with every meal
  • Vitamin D with every meal
  • Heavy doses of Arginine with every meal

Nothing from the above seems to have had any effect, not sure how I can kickstart the function of 5a reductace so I can get back to being my base-level male again with DHT doing its job (I do NOT care about my hairloss any longer, this has taken priority). As you can imagine, my entire personality has been crushed by this new reality; it sounds kind of extreme, but I’ve lost a piece of my reason for living. When I really don’t have any interest in the other sex; life becomes surprisingly dull, and in many ways, unfulfilling. Extremely interested in any ideas anyone might have, your help here would be unbelievably appreciated.

Thanks
Scott


#2

why would you take grape seed extract with every meal? its a “DHT BLOCKER” didnt you know this or what?


#4

Thought I’d check-in again, still no change; and in many ways still a bit worse. I have occasional morning wood, but it lasts about a minute ever other week or so. Libido is non-existant except when I cycle Ashwaganda or Tribulus.

One thing I have definitely noticed, and this is strange… is my prostate has shrunk. If and when I do get an erection, it’s as if the base of the penis starts much further inside my body than it used to. Not sure if that makes sense, but the base of my erect penis used to ‘sit’ or start much further away from body than where it does now, leading me to think that over time, my prostate has actually shrunken. I’ve seen reports of this elsewhere, and given that Proscar is a medication for the Prostate, this would make sense.

Tribulus seems to have a small effect, along with a ridiculous host of other supplements, but it only really increases libido for 1 to 2 days before it loses its effectiveness; clearly one needs to cycle this supplement as has been stated before.

Other than that, I think my only hope is to try and re-shock my hormonal system to normal by doing some crazy fast as others have tried. I tried one before but it wasn’t that long (4-5 days) and it had some decent effects, but they didn’t really stick over time.

And now for the traditional venting
It’s pretty exhausting reading all the different treatments out there on the forums, the supplement regimens, the different fasting techniques, the highly specific diets. I even become skeptical when I read the “I’m Cured!” posts, wondering if this person even had PFS in the first place, or if their ‘cure’ maybe lasted a couple months or so before they crashed again. I even wonder if the whole ‘cdnuts’ protocol was really the result of some obsessed ‘fitness hacker’ trying to show off how his killer knowledge and extreme persistence can ‘cure anything.’ He even created a fitness blog after he posted his infamous treatment. Fairly pessimistic outlook, I know, but I’m just trying to avoid bullshit treatments for this.

Has there been ANY group consensus that’s been achieved on how to actually cure these symptoms? It’s unbelievable to me that there isn’t a single thing out there that will correct the damage this drug has done to me. If anyone has had some real success with ANYTHING, would love to hear it. Seeing an endocrinologist next week, probably won’t lead to much, but it’s all I got. I’ll keep checking in and alerting you all to my progress or lack there of.

Cheers,
Scott


Longtime Lurker....I have recovered...after 7 years!!
#5

Any updates on your situation?


#6

Couple updates:

  • Fasting - I tried an 8 day water fast a few months back hoping that this would help shock the system and somehow reset my hormones. It sadly had little to no effect, and in some ways, may have made it worse; but ultimately hard to measure. As has been concluded by many others on the site, the whole CDNUTS protocol seems to be the ramblings of a guy who has some typical ED / Low Testosterone issues that can be fixed with heavy-duty cleanse and ridiculous workout schedule. Furthermore, it seems like there’s even some evidence of fraudulence with him pushing his protocols via a health website for lots of different ailments. In the end, it doesn’t seem there’s a strong pattern on this forum of users actually being cured with this kind of protocol (besides some secondary health benefits from dieting and exercising). I’ve come to the unfortunate conclusion that this kind of extreme fasting isn’t really a solution for those with actual PFS as it seems to be an issue surrounding damage to actual androgen receptor itself or the overexpression of receptors from the sudden and drastic drop in DHT.

  • HISTIDINE - This was wild. Based on what I read from THIS POST, I took ONE dose (2 pills of 500mg) of L-Histidine and had a FULL RECOVERY that lasted an entire 2 days. When I say full recovery, I mean: complete sensitivity back, complete libido back, I had sex in a completely natural and organic way that just ‘kinda happened’ (usual feels forced and unpleasurable), my erection was totally full and back to normal size and force, my ejaculate was full and actually spurted out rather than drizzled out the tip, my mind was clear and full of energy. It was amazing, completely forgot what being a normal person felt like, I was completely floored and thought I found the magic cure. Naturally I kept taking the supplement, and never had the same effect again. I’ve tried cycling the Histidine (1-week, 2-week) but to no avail whatsoever. It seems no matter what I do, it will never have any effect again. This 2 day experience gave me some small glimmer of hope however, because if it is possible to go back to 100%, even momentarily, then there MUST be some sort of avenue out of this. While the symptoms feel permanent, the small, 100% recovery leads me to believe there simply has to be a solution out there - as if our bodies just need a simple push in the correct direction and it know what to do to correct itself. It will be interesting to know what some of the more informed users can infer from this temporary cessation of side-effects from L-Histidine, but (for what it’s worth) I do know that I have always had a strong allergic reaction to cats and dogs. I also have a minor skin disease called Vitiligo which affected me much more when I was younger but is an auto-immune disease. This could clearly have something to do with my Histimine levels, not sure how interrelated this could be with my sides and the underlying cause of the disorder. This info could be helpful in some manner to someone, but I’m not the person who’ll be able to gleen a hypothesis on how the above info helps unraveling the mystery.

I can’t promise that the HISTIDINE will have the same effect for you, but it might. Worth giving it a try.

  • Other Supplements - I’m starting to try R-Lipoic Acid which I’ve heard could help, but so far am not experiencing any effect at all. I’ve done a whole host of other supplements that are too long to list here, nothing really seems to have much of an effect, and really any libido effect I get from Ashwaganda, Tribulus really subsides after a few uses and then I have to give it up for many weeks if I want an effect again.

I do want to try Oxaandrolone as I’ve heard that’s an option that might have a stronger effect. I’m ready to try something a little less ‘over-the-counter’ as I’m in a bit of desperate state. It does feel like this is the new normal for me.

  • Dr. Irwin Goldstein I gave the man, the myth, the legend - Dr. Goldsetin a call. He gives you a free 10 minute consultation which then leads to a list of tests he wants you to come to his office in San Diego for. The issue is, it’s around $2500 - 3000 dollars (no insurance accepted) and there is NO GUARANTEE any of it is going to work or have any kind of long-term efficacy. He definitely knows what he’s talking about, and can certainly sympathize with those who suffer from PFS (most doctors don’t even believe me), but it was clear that he had no fundamental insight into a solution or cure and most of the tactics seem to be taking lots of tests where we really just attempt at isolating what the issue might be and guesstimate on next-steps. I haven’t pulled the trigger on an actual visit due to the costs, but it still might be in my future. This was the email I received back with the tests he wanted to perform:

REASON FOR VISIT
Scott began taking finasteride January 2017
Scott stopped taking finasteride March 2017.

Scott has the following symptoms: low libido, erections 60% at best, loss of spontaneous difficulty achieving orgasm, low volume of ejaculation, difficulty falling & staying asleep, pain in gonads, loss of sensation in tip of the penis, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, anger, depression, memory loss.
Main concerns in rank order: libido & ED
Scott has tried exercising and strict diets to fight symptoms.
Scott has seen 3 physicians regarding PFS.
Scott should consider a detailed biopsychosocial assessment at SDSM.

TESTS

Pelvic floor physical therapy assessment.

ASSESSMENT

Hypoactive sexual desire disorder
Organic impotence
Male orgasmic disorder

THERAPY

Recommended request consultation by specialist - Rose Hartzell.

PLAN

Serum thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH)
Serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH)
Serum dihydrotestosterone level
Serum estradiol level
Postpubertal male serum LH level
Serum prolactin level
Serum SHBG level
Total plasma testosterone level
Prostate-specific antigen in serum
A Doppler duplex color-flow ultrasound
Quantitative sensory testing.

Not sure what else I can do at the moment, but please let me know if anyone has any ideas from the information above. Anyone else having success with any other treatments or protocols. Curious about what further strategies can be surmised from the androgen overexpression or damage hypothesis.


#7

Hy Scott please try active vitamin b6 aka p5p along with histadine this will convert histadine to histamine.
Please report if you do that I am also thinking of trying this.

Histadine needs p5p to make histamine.

Please do check if there are any other cofectors.


#8

Hey guys,

Quick update: I’ve tried adding the P5P version of Coenzymated B6 wo a daily Histidine regime, and there is a definite change, BUT not getting nearly the effect that occurred the first time I took Histidine.

There seems to have a neurological effect when taking the Histidine, I’m able to achieve some libido and non touch triggered erections while I am on it. That I can confirm over the long term. But it is by no means a cure all, it’s a very background effect. I may try increasing the dosage to see if this has any effect.
I also notice that some bone ache (almost like arthritis) in my hands dissipate really quickly when taking it; and I see that histidine is used in the treatment of arthritis so not too surprising.

I recommend others try adding P5P B6 along with L-Histidine and see if it has any effect. It’s been one of the few supplements that has had a truly discernible effect that has lasted over the course of weeks/months.

Any other ideas or recommendations would be very welcome.


#9

For nerve reparation as well: l carnosine and acetyl l carnitine.


#10

My histadine will be here any day now,
Please try folic acid with it, this combo will increase NO and histamine level.

Btw in term of percentage where you will place your self.

Are your night time and morning wood any better.


#11

Night and morning woods are better, but they are at 60-70% stiffness. They aren’t at the pure real ‘hard-on’ they normally are.


#12

Hi Scott,

You aren’t alone in noticing a profound episodic recovery with histidine:
http://www.pssdforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1969


#13

Hey Scott thanks for the update, I’m going to order the
100g of powered histidine and see what happens.
I also have the bone aches you mentioned which are annoying, wrist and knuckles, top of hands feel stiff and slow.

Good to hear your doing a little better :blush:


#14

How much P5P you are using?


#15

Dosages:

  • 2 100mg tablets of P5P Coenzymated B6
  • 2 500mg tablets of L-Histidine

@Dubya_B Thanks for the link, there’s LOTS of information there, I wonder what insight can be had from all of this? “The erection-promoting action of histamine is probably due to H2 receptor activation.” I wonder how this can be leveraged for further treatment/cure?

Thanks for the help guys.


#16

Sounds possible. I don’t like to speculate about these things.

It was just surprising to hear 2 individuals, who had no success with a slew of other treatments and no knowledge of each other’s temporary improvements on histidine, both say it worked for them.

There was also a guy on the PSSD forum who mentioned a profound improvement of genital numbness, which is almost unheard of.


#17

The p5p dosage is huge.
Have you consider adding folic acid?


#18

I have added Folic acid as well, but doesn’t seem to do much. I must report that the Histidine has sadly stopped being of much use, although I am still taking it. Who knows what other co-factors there may be in my reversal to a crash.

I’m read this post here by @alteredlife and he seems to have a similar experience with other kinds of Amino Acids, I may start trying this protocol as well since I had some minor success with Histidine. I wonder if anyone else has any theories here.

I’m starting to take note that while the core root of most theories and regimens surround the body’s lost ability to convert Testosterone into DHT, Finasteride also inhibits the conversion of progesterone to the neurosteroid allopregnanolone (ALLO) which helps regulate your GABA receptors which have a fundamental effect on mood, relaxation, memory and pleasure centers. I know this is wildly complex, I’m going to a Endo, a Urologist, and a Neurologist this week in the hopes that someone can help diagnose the cause better.


#19

@Scott.H I read something similar to that the other day. Had something to do with the enzymes it takes to convert or produce certain amino acids in the brain. I am doing some more research on that as well. It’s funny you had the same thing happen to you that happened to me. I’m gonna keep mixing and matching till I get it perfect, hopefully. The crazy thing about it is that I’ve taken amino acids in the past, but nothing ever gave me a full 3 day recovery until this time. But since I’ve been taking a bunch of different ones, I’ve gotten a lot better.


#20

Got some recent blood work done, anyone notice anything?

Blood tests:

LH: 6.4
DHEA-Sulfate: 3,990
Prolactin: 10.8
Estradiol: 34
TSH: .93
Free T4: 1.6
FSH: 6.2
Hgb A1c - HPLC: 5.2

Sodium 144
Potassium 4.5
Chloride 105
Total CO2 27
Anion Gap 12
Glucose 96
Creatinine 0.94
Urea Nitrogen 18
Calcium 9.8
Total Protein 7.1
Albumin 5.2 - HIGH
Bilirubin,Total 0.7
Alkaline Phosphatase 77
Aspartate Aminotransferase 18
Alanine Aminotransferase 13

#21

Including my Free T/T/SHBG results here as well:

  • Testosterone, LC-MS/MS 682 ng/dL
  • SHGB 44 nmol/L
  • Testosterone, Free LC-MS/MS 114.9 pg/mL