i neaver seen an improvment. I have just got worse and worse
If you want to go the natural route, you have to work very very very hard for long term lasting improvement. The only way you can really do it is by totally re-organising your life in favour of prioritising your improvement methods (daily exercise, healthy eating, sunlight, prostate massages, a good vitamin protocol etc, all the stuff that is good for us anyway, but in abundance). I agree with Mens Rea that I have never felt 100% since all this happened, however i have seen very slow improvement, with a few ups and downs, following a very hollistic approach to my recovery. More recently I have actually started to recognise my body alot more, whereas it has felt a bit alien at times in the past 8 months.
Have you undertaken similar lifestyle changes and still seen no improvement or worsening?
On the sesitivity note, today I can have sex about 2-3 times in a day with a break in between (if i go too soon afterwards itâs quite easy to lose my erection, but I guess that would be normal for some people anyway). I also enjoy it every time, almost as much as before. At my worst, I was impotent or at the very least completely numb. I donât think it will ever go back to the level of sensitivity as before, but I have seen a marked improvement in 8 months. If I drink alcohol, however, I am more horny but less sensitive. So, in my case there is a correlation between the things I consume and do and the level of sensitivity. I guess itâs about finding out what it is for you.
thank you for this. how long were u numb for before some sensativity returned. for me its been over a year. i wounder if its been dead for too long
I think it depends on the individual. However, I think it is possible to recover from this (I mean every aspect of PFS) to an appreciable level (80-90%+) naturally, but you have to work extremely hard and be very patient. Without attacking people on the forum, I would bet that >95% of the people probably havenât got what it takes to go this route. Now I donât want to blow my own trumpet (and believe me I suffer from an awful lot (if not all to some extent) of the PFS symptoms after a heavy crash) but following a completely natural protocol thus far, I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Itâs a long way in the distance still, but itâs there, just a very faint dot on the horizon.
I donât think because you have been numb for a year that itâs completely gone forever. I would say a key turning point for me has been since I started having regular sex again (probably around 2-3 months ago). However, this was also around the time when I really started getting serious about my recovery protocol (more like was able to), so I think it has all contributed. This is why I use the term hollistic. This is key and also evident in another such thread more recently (JN, of course). What I would say is that if it has been 1 year of complete numbness, itâs not going to come back over night, nor in 1,2,3,4,5 months⌠itâs more like a lifelong commitment. This is why it is best to start re-organising your life. Re-organise it as if you will never recover and it will become alot easier.
Youâll have to take my word for this though, because as I said I honestly feel most here donât have a hope of going this route. They are either looking for a quick fix or their pre finsateride lives (i.e. personailities, characteristics, habits, lifestyles, environment, hobbies) and by this I mean their general make-up, âwho they areâ, just wonât be conducive to a natural recovery from something like this. If you saw my wall chart of things that I do each day you would think I am mental, but it is all natural. Donât get me wrong I am not recovered, but my life is so well programmed now that I am living a good one. I am happy. I am also excited by the improvements that have seemingly popped up out of nowhere, because ultimately I donât even think of my recovery protocol as an abnormal way of living. I am just doing these things on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I donât even expect to recover from my protocol either, if you get what I mean, itâs just what I do to keep living a good life. It was a welcome surprise though, when one day I was like, this feels pretty good! Not pre-finasteride good, but better.
If you want more specific details, feel free to PM me. I am not going posting everything I am doing on the forum. Not until my final post in the recoveries section! 
This reasoning is incomplete. Firstly, finasteride blocks testosteroneâs conversion to DHT and as it cannot convert to DHT it converts to estrogen. Per the patient information leaflet, while it suppresses DHT 60+% on the first dose, it also raises testosterone and estrogen on average 15%.
Finasteride affects multiple hormonal pathways that we know and suppression of the 5AR2 enzyme could in addition lead to nerve damage (I believe it can) which is probably not reversible. So taking finasteride may affect the hormonal loops however it also affects the nervous system which, when damaged, probably cannot be repaired. See this thread for more information:
This is not to mention that Aworâs theory could be right, in which case UK20 will only be making his condition worse.
How many people have tried to jumpstart their hormonal system (a la bodybuilding techniques) and failed? This is deeper than just resetting hormonal pathways. If this were the solution it would have been found long ago. Besides, there are people who take finasteride for a period, stop and recover, then start again only to never recover.
UK has earned less respect than he receives from me. Verbal attacks have all been instigated from his side, especially the four letter name calling via PM in addition to what he spews on the forum. He thinks no one else is doing enough or has done enough to figure the problem out so he thinks he will try taking finasteride again which will improve him in the long run. Heâs not even at the 2-3 year mark when some people have reported natural recoveries, but heâs sure as hell gonna keep drinking, âexperimentingâ with drugs, taking finasteride, and spouting his opinion that others are not worthy of his respect, IMO because heâs young, stupid, desperate, and frustrated, none of which I can really blame him for because Iâve felt or been them all myself.
However resorting to finasteride to fix UK20âs problems is like an alcoholic trying to cure alcoholism through alcohol. Itâs just not going to work. Itâs fortunate though that we have a guinea pig to report back long term the effects of this experiment, that is if UK20 doesnât make good on his constant suicide hints, especially after his âtreatmentâ deteriorates his condition further. Actually, I think UK20 deserves his own thread for this so we can all follow it.
if u think the numbness is irraversible why do you try to recover from your other sides. what woukd be the point in getting libido back if you cant have sex
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I think finasteride damaged us on multiple fronts. Maybe straightening out the hormone or digestive parts will help a great deal to improve symptoms (like it helped JN, for example), which may improve the quality of life. We are all different. I donât know if everyone has nerve damage.
I think this is a multi-tiered problem. We essentially took a poison that affected multiple things. It could be a combination of things thats causing our problems and straightening out some of them will help, however damaging something further will do the opposite. If Alex Miller is right, then the 5AR2 enzyme actually repairs nerves in certain areas of the body and blocking it can only lead to further degradation of the nerves.
Iâm not saying give up. Iâm saying finasteride could cause nerve damage which may be irreversible as stated in better scientific terms and documentation around this forum.
Libido is tied in with a bigger part of the personality, the spark for life, so to speak. There has been some success with neuro or neurotransmitter treatments. Joetz has had some positive response in his neurotransmitter treatment. This indicates itâs part of the problem.
UK20 man, youâre a good guy, but your posts have been a little strange since you took fin again. Are you OK? Generally, as you know, I am pretty much against most things MartinM says on this forum, but I did not see anything particularly wrong with the excerp you picked out. Wasnât this just fact for alot of the guys on here? I know I wished i hadnât wanked my way through the very early days, it only lead to disasterâŚ
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OK, the post was edited. Anyway, this guy probably hates us for spamming his thread ! I guess we should give it a break.
Many people, many panicky men who are just learning about the real risks of taking finasteride can read your posts UK20.
You mistate facts, you name call, and you attempt childish, low class personal degradation. No one needs to justify themselves to you. Youâre on a forum for people suffering persistent side effects after discontinuing finasteride and youâre taking it again even though âyou have no real reason for trying thisâ. You report success, albiet brief, and giving hope to desperate men who may indeed jump the band wagon even though itâs heading off a cliff. Donât you wish someone would have warned you [edit: of the unlisted dangers of finasteride] before taking finasteride? I sure as hell do.
If you donât want to further argue shut up.
BTW, here is a full quote, not just the exerpt you took UK20, of my response to Gino. It makes much more sense if you read his questions about what to possibly expect after coming off finasteride, questions I was responding to. To further note, Mew has noted earlier in the thread that there is a good chance he will recover fine, heâs just looking for advice about what to do to maximize his chances.
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May i suggest you guys delete all this bollocks above
I read your quote above and added it plus a contradictory quote below from August 28th. Which is it? Were you 100% cured, 110% cured, or 65% cured? Or perhaps you were averaging it out? Not to be too sarcastic as I realize Iâve had similar feelings. When you go from impotent to being able to temporarily able to have sex with feeling back to impotent, with brain fog on top of this, itâs confusing to know where you actually were/are.
Iâm hoping itâs gone that far that Mew will do this with the whole thread.
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This thread has been moved to Theories section so as not to clutter Denarioâs member story, as it is a theory on its own.
If our shared symptoms are a manifestation of nerve damage then it is in fact likely a permanent condition. I personally have shown signs of pudendal neuropathy and I am nearing the end of my investigation on this front. When I have pushed the search to the final boundaries I will post an update in this regard. At this point it looks as though it will remain inconclusive.
My observations are limited to the scope this thread. He obviously should respect others, especially the admins who are working very hard to seek a solution. The attacks on UK seemed unprovoked within the context of this thread, but I think it is terrible when guys on here insult each other especially since we are all in this together, regardless of the degree of our individual situations.
I donât think this analogy works since none of us are really âaddictedâ to finasteride. As I mentioned, I am currently not willing to experiment with getting back on fin since I perceive the risks to be quite large, but I think it could be illuminating to hear about individuals who have experimented with it again. While the reasoning for it may be a bit tenuous, I donât think there are great arguments to made against it since the exact mechanism of destruction is still unknown.
I really hope he doesnât take his life and I hope anybody would reach out for help before taking drastic measures.
UK deleted all his posts shortly after he made them attacking multiple people, including admins. UK20 initiated all attacks. I think this states enough about the legitimacy of this theory and his current state of mind. I think itâs his current finasteride treatment regime and I sympathize, Iâm just trying to make a point so other people, especially someone suffering from persistent side effects from finasteride, doesnât continue damaging their body with with this poison because they are so desperate for any hope.
I hope UK doesnât kill himself either. I also hope he stops claiming heâs going to. Regarding the analogy, look at your language. You say âmechanism of destructionâ which I think is entirely correct. Finasteride can destroy things in the body such as your natural hormonal axis, potentially nerves, among other things.
This analogy isnât about addiction. Itâs about alcohol being a destructive substance to alcoholics just like finasteride is a destructive substance to many males, like those with PFS (we are in this subgroup), who are particularly susceptible to it. When an alcoholic continues to drink they destroy their liver irreversibly. There is potential, if not certainty, that finasteride can do the same with nerves, the hormonal axis, and possibly AR within the skin tissue itself. So this analogy applies in UK20âs case as heâs continuing to consume the destructive substance that has caused 17 months of PFS, finasteride.