Yeah, I hear that day to day stuff… it really gets to me as well, some days good some days bad.
what I’m really looking for though is some kind of test or indication that inflammation may be a marker of the problems in myself. can you tell me specifically how you know you had inflammation so I can try to figure out if I have it too?
More users i am learning so much from them…
Wow!
I wish i visited their forums earlier, like 4-5 years ago. 60.000 euros was the toll of just sticking here and believing its a hormonal issue on its own
hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=95797&enterthread=y
Mr.Mister
I’ve had pain during ejaculation at times, but it feels like it’s more in the base of my penis. It’s definitely tied to Finasteride because whenever I would skip it for a few days, the pain would go away. I highly doubt Finasteride caused a prostate infection, though–it’s more likely that it’s somehow causing prostatitis. Did your doctor prescribe any medication or offer any suggestions? Does he know you’re on Fin?
I’ve found that taking Fin at the same time everyday greatly reduced my side effects. I rarely experience any these days.
Test is only DRE and ultrasound up your anus.
You can do some other crap like ultrasensitive CRP but it won’t say exactly where the inflammation is.
I payed so much for crap like that, don’t waste your money
Go to a urologist
Let him digitally test your prostate, find someone who knows how to test with a color doppler ultrasound and who knows a great deal and can treat you.
If you don’t have prostatitis then look at hormones, if you haven’t allready
And to end up the hormone issue.
Major hormones are produced by organs, by specific areas in these organs let it be brain or peripheral structures. In order for hormones to be produced or not, and also in order to act in specific tissues, the architecture of the organs that produce or are targeted by hormones MUST be intact.
In other words if you have depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, inflammations, infections etc etc hormones are not produced properly and do not act properly on tissues.
No matter what you do, you have to treat the cause.
I ve had multiple enzyme issues over the course of the years and tested for most of them. Enzyme irregularities that were irrelevant of 5-ar II action, and prior to that, and i fixed most of them pretty solidly.
Some had to do with immune system factors clearance, complementary system activation, adrenergic hormone metabolism, they all recovered to a very well functioning point. Either due to chronic systemic infections, either due to overtraining many enzymatic systems got in a delayed or hyperstimulated route.
Nevertheless after some time they recovered, it was some months to a year for my immune system and the Rnase-L complex to refunction properly and a couple of years for the overtraining problems and all the catechol-methyl transferase issue, the ultra high noradrenaline and the low serotonine.
Everything recovered and i am back on my feet.
The only thing that wouldn’t recover was the 5-ar II. It only got worse as years went by. The worse my prostate felt the worst it became in values.
The day i started treating my prostate this is when the enzyme started functioning again, otherwise i wouldn’t feel that sort of improvements all over.
How worse could i have been. Normal adiol-g values is (3-18) and i had 1.3. According to Hertoghe i should be in the 15+ range.
Two years ago i had 5.6. Now looking at the urological tests i received everything is back in low yet normal however range, i have measured all sorts of metabolites not only 3-adiol-g.
So the better shape the target organ is the better your 5-arII activity will be.
This is my conclusion and i see it in every day living.
Hormones didn’t correct this to the minimum, and i was on testosterone 2x normal dose daily and half of it on my scrotum and the other half on my forehead and shoulders.
Nothing happened. The enzyme remained at very low levels and offcourse i had nothing in sort of improvements.
Then came the napalm mixture of cortisol+thyroid+testosterone+arimidex.
Result, zero improvement more side effects
Then came the dht+anti-inflammatories, result = more prostatic pains, more erection issues
None of us were laughing at anyone who flew to Kos and spent thousands of dollars on the insistence of a promised cure. I highly doubted the theory behind it, but still had my fingers crossed for those guys to come back feeling better.
Bottom line: no one who went to Kos remotely recovered, except you and your ‘cousin who took saw palmetto’. Funny that. One or two got worse, at great expense in time and money and by taking antbiotics you hade previously warned as being highly dangerous. I’m sure they are happy to hear that you think they didn’t get enough treatments done.
I think people have been very leniant with the you and your Dr G acolytes given much of the abuse you were dishing out in that thread prior to treatment.
You were also directing people to Kos at a time when the first scientific study on PFS sufferers was being undertaken, which at one stage was stuggling for participants. This was also a study you were openly sceptical about, so it is interesting to note your new found enthusiasm.
If you want to turn the thread into a debate about the merits of your prostate theory, go back to the previous thread in the theories section.
fin was desgined for men with prostate cancer. u shrink the prostate and thus the cancer. those with cancer would neaver stop taking fin. i beluve too the prostate or surrounding area is inflammed. i cant get anti biotics from my dr as he is a dick. but i did try herbal tea which had anti flamatory properties and saw a some small improvments. what anti biotics did u take to feel better and can u but these online?
Ok i rest my case. You are correct and i am wrong, and all the rest in the world that got their prostates damaged by finasteride are also wrong. Its only in their minds.
The research you are referring to started two months after my posts about the prostate treatments. If it was more open and included more parameters i would fly there too, what would be there to loose??.
But i don’t know the scientists behind that, i don’t know where it is, and it seems to have only one issue as a prerequisite for participation. Penile insensitivity.
If i am the one to blaim for people not participating, then i have to apologize, but noone mentioned this to me till now but you.
Now because haters exist in all forums and i ve been in innumerous forums till today about finasteride i don’t feel there is any reason to give this more value. Yet i never attacked anyone that suggested i go to dr. Hertoghe or to Crisler insisting that i can get better there. I also got worse from my visits and therapies from them and spent more money than anyone else. So?? I had to do it to find out if it works or not, since it worked for some others why not for me?? Do i have to blaim them?? No, i moved along and tried something different.
If i start to adopt a childish act like you have, i should start accusing everyone that suggests i visit a doctor a treatment.
To end this, i am way better than i was before and this is not just me, it is from hundreds of patients testimonies, some have also used finasteride and they never made the connection like most of us did here, otherwise this doc wouldn’t have such a large number of patients from all around the globe.
You have completely misunderstood me.
I completely hope that each one of us here gets better one way or another, i just have been through too much to believe in researching and miraculous treatments. I see logic first of all behind all this, and that is why i stick to the prostate as a first line of treating.
And by the way how come you re not accusing me about the adrenal fatigue theory as well.
I remember a few strong haters back then, when i kept telling them about saliva cortisol, adrenal fatigue and the effects finasteride had on the adrenals, they kept telling me its crazy there is no connection its irrelevant etc etc…
Since then how many sufferers have tested for saliva cortisol and found out problems?? A hundred to say the least?? Where are all those folks to accuse me now about spent money and time??
And i particularly remember back then boston insisting that it is a prostate problem and antibiotics could do the trick, but i kept saying first i will treat my adrenals and then we will see.
Poor guy left the forum after being attacked by a bunch of people too, including me at that time, i didn’t even understand how the prostate could be connected back then and dismissed his thoughts.
tbh I can’t be arsed going through all your posts in this thread and quoting all the garbage.
No one told you to go and see Hertoghe or Crisler. In fact you told a guy from England to go and see Chroussos in Athens a couple of years back and that turned out to be a waste of his time and money. People were talking about adrenal fatigue on the old yahoo forum before you showed up, that is even where Crisler himself admits he found out about it. And the Kos thread was already well underway before the biopsy took place.
Then from the outset you said with absolute certainty that the Kos treatments would address and solve the core issue. There was no caution or due warning given to the particularly desperate and gullible who followed in your wake. You pointed to other guys having success with vaguely similar symptoms but omitted to mention that none had taken finasteride, and advised on treatments involving the very antibiotics and fluroquinolones which put you to bed for two years. Then when reality set in you deleted all your posts and disappeared.
Just because you have had PFS along time and spent a lot of money on doctors it doesn’t make your insight any greater. You are hardly alone here in having done this, although I bet most of us don’t have 60 000 euros to spend. I wish you recovery but you have tried to sneak back on the forum as if nothing had happened and be a newly converted supporter of awor’s studies. You can’t be offended if someone has a minor joke at your expense.
I don’t support Awor’s studies or believe that taking a dog anesthetic can heal my inactivated DNA sequences or reverse demethylation processes.
I went to Hertoghe under guidance of some of his patients in here, never knew of the guy.
Crisler is not a doctor and he charged me 250 euros for half an hour consultation and put me on letrozole and i had the worst two weeks vacation of my life with endless prostate pains, more gynecomastia and no sleep.
Adrenal fatigue… I must have sent like 20 pms regarding saliva testing, when in 2007 very very few knew what it was let alone how to test properly
Last but not least, you are a hater and haters deserve to be talked like crap.
So you can go drown your self, you never went to Kos and you can’t accuse me of things that are over your head. If someone went and did the treatments properly and saw no improvement then he could blame the doctor directly
Why didn’t they?
I told everyone what he told me, what i saw there and it was not fake. The guy is treating thousands per year and many people there have used finasteride they don’t make the connection between their problems. My cousin used saw palmetto he never realized it had anything to do with his issues.
So what the fuck is your issue and i have to apologize to you?
You did nothing to this forum but provide with hate and misery and more than that you have no clue about medicine what so ever you just read forums google etc etc.
Try something find some solution to one of your issues and then we may speak and you may share it. Till then there is nothing in between us to discuss.
And looking at my pms about gene problems from finasteride reminds me of the crap i used to read from you
Come on guys give it a break.
Check your fucking prostate properly: If you’re clear, then ok, for you the issue is probably not related with prostatitis. Now, for a subset of us, it is. We, as freaking solonjk predicted, have prostatitis.
After taking a pill designed to mess up with our prostate, we got worse with an infection that probably was already there (this could also explain why some guys that take finasteride reverse their sides and some get fucked up for ever: finasteride agravates an already present infection).
The Dr G treatment is not the final word on how to cure the infection, but that has nothing to do with the fact that many of us have prostatitis. The next step for some of us is to try to address this problem properly (which, oh what a surprise, most doctors don’t know how to deal with it properly)
So, instead of spending so much time talking shit on how crazy solonjk is (and yes, he seems pretty messed up, but who on this forum is not?) check yourselves for prostatitis with a good doctor (not someone that just checks if you have enlarged prostate. You can have a normal size prostate and have an infection). If you don’t have prostatitis, then you have my permission to forget about this topic, click IGNORE or block on this forum on every user that ever mentions the word prostate, and keep on with your forum life.
Thanks man, i prefer being messed up than fucked up.
Its pretty cool actually.
But i feel better in all aspects so who cares.
And i was 2.5 years a bedridden crippled.
So you can understand the way i am acting is weird
Can you please tell me what infection has been further aggrevating because of finasteride? Or an example an what infection this is? I’ve seen other people tested with no infection which is why I am asking.
I never asked or wanted you to apologise to me. Maybe you could to those guys who took your word about Kos. Obviously I have touched a nerve with you, so to speak. For what it’s worth, ever since I have been on this forum you have been rambling about various treatments with neither rhyme nor reason; droning on about various disease states, symptoms, hormones, pathways most of which have nothing to do with pfs and are never backed by medical studies, just because you read about it in a book sometime. Of course you have deleted the vast majority of it but to the uninitiated, as I was in 2009, they were a source of worry and confusion. The last time I saw you on meso you were searching for Masteron in pill form! Thank god we have better figureheads around here or we would still be stuck with the same knowledge as in 1999. That said, I am glad you say you are feeling better - that goes for everyone who has been to hell with this disease, which is more than just yourself.
I would just bow like to bow out of this by asking how a prostate infection can lead to severe insomnia, rampant muscle loss, newly acquired awful cognitive problems etc within a month of stopping? And if so, how come TRT does nothing to alleviate these non sexual sides when men who have had bilateral orchiectomies (both testicles removed) due to testicular or prostate cancer can get a good response from exogenous testosterone?
an infection in the prostate?
i think i dont understand your post.
what I’m saying, as an hypotesis, is that maybe, we already had some kind of infection going on in the prostate, and then we took finasteride and it made it worse. (or even further: we had some infection in some related part of our body, and after finasteride those microbes went into the prostate). No evidence, no information, no papers on it. Just an hypotesis. That could explain why some guys don’t get PFS and some losers get PFS. But still, it doesn’t matter: Either you have prostatitis and care to find a way to treat, or you don’t and can mind other theories. There is no inbetween discussion for me.
oh no a wild paper appears! my hypotesis fainted!
is it the same korean guys that proved that finasteride side effects go away after 3 months?
No one knows the etiology that leads to PFS. There are different theories out there and it’s largely up to each of us and our doctors to figure out which we will pursue.
Personally, I have benefited from antibiotic therapy and have had brief periods of recovery while on them. I know I’m not alone there.
I don’t care to put a label on this phenomenon (e.g. prostatitis, bacteria, worms, inflammation, whatever) as I have no idea what the antibiotics do to help. But if I have found some benefit in taking them, I won’t stop that because a number of Kos guys came back unhappy.
just a question.
what about people who took only one or two pills and suffering now. I cant believe their postate is messed up by only two pills.
I am very sure it is related to anti bodies.
I posted cases of vasectomy, these guys never took any fin but they suffer just like us. their lh and fsh are low like us total T , fee T is low. how anti bodies against sperms cause these all is mystry.