Not sure what you mean by this. If it’s because I’m being pro-active enough to go and try new things then you’ve got rocks in your head.
Sit on your hands my friend and see how far you get. You are lucky that the guys who are forking out the dollars to go over there are nice enough to report back. Good or bad.
If you hate this theory so much why are you constantly here? I would say curiosity and I’ll be your one of the first on a plane if it works.
Unbelievable.
Mew, the day your “published research” reveals the cure for PFS then I will take note. So far, the scientific community have about as much knowledge of what Finasteride does today, as they did when they first mass produced and sold this poison to the general public.
They have NO IDEA.
Why would you delete all of your posts?? This raises more questions than answers.
There are currently at least 5 people who are now in Kos or are headed over there purely on your and the doctor’s say so. And now you are deleting posts? Why would you do that???
Why must we always put all our eggs in one basket? Is it not possible and more constructive to have different people investigating different things? Isnt that why there is a forum? For discussion and idea swapping?
Why people here cannot see the value in exploring different angles of this syndrome just baffles me. No-one is discrediting Mew’s opinoin (unless first provoked to do so) so why are those exploring things outside of that, on the sh*t list for doing so?
KEEP AN OPEN MIND PEOPLE. No-one is asking you folk to chip in and pay for us to go to Kos. Again, you should be thankfull that we are forking out the cash and willing to report back so you guys could possibly benefit.
Howabout a little SUPPORT.
J89, testicular pain is listed right on the package as a direct result of Finasteride use. I’m not sure why people feel the need to look for alternate explanations.
Penile fibrosis is a documented result of androgen deprivation, per above. I’ve just provided logical answers to these symptoms based on published research, with photographic evidence even, yet you ignore and choose to look for alternative explanations. Why?
I will never understand this mindset when the most logical answers have been tested and proven by scientists, and are presented for you to see with your own eyes. For some reason certain people choose to disbelieve such evidence and simply make up ideas without any evidence whatsoever to explain their case – is it because it’s too emotionally upsetting to you to accept published facts, or for some other reason?
This is not a personal attack, I’m genuinely trying to understand your logic for discounting what has been presented.
(To MEW)understood and fine the penile fibrosis is caused by androgen deprivation, and the temporary testicle pain that was a ride to the testicle sagging was caused by a raise of LH, but end of the day however it doesnt matter how the fibrosis got there it still has to be taken care of, because even if you level androgen levels and lh levels the fibrosis will still be present and there would still be genital numbness. so if Solon found away to diminish the inflammation with antibiotics it would be the first step to recovery. isnt this logical? …p.s. im sure alot of people’s androgen and LH levels have already leveled but problems still persist?? i could be wrong on this but i just think theres more to it than just level the bloods . the change in levels that finasteride caused caued PHYSICAL damaged to the penis ,prostate which has to be taken care of first.
an example is like layers of an orange you first have to peal the outside and the garbage(physical damage…inflamation) to get inside(the blood levels)
Look guys chill out a little. Mew you’re getting very invested in this. Recommend you sit back and wait for other peoples results or lack of them come in. What you are saying is true but it doesn’t really explain much of our situation. Testicular pain post finasteride will not be due to increased testosterone (if it indeed is due to that - its a leap after all). The fact is there are so many assumptions about everything here that its very easy to paint a picture by being selective with our info. Of course some pictures are more easy to paint than others.
The bottom line is this Solonjk reports 95% improvement with this regime when nothing else has helped him. Results are the only thing on this forum which speak for themselves. Is this luck or reproducible? Let these people find out.
We need to keep an open mind. We don’t suffer from every symptom of androgen deprivation. For example when i saw the endocrinologist he looked at my back and i had some back acne. This doesn’t happen if you have no androgen function. Same with hair loss, same with return of morning erections (albeit weak) after doxycycline. Selective AR signalling disruption or post translational modifications are also hard pills to swallow and are very much theories. They are worthwhile theories. Hell i’ve argued for them extensively and believe we need to look into it. However…
Results people…results are worth exploring regardless of reason why they helped.
Mew, I just can’t fathom why you would return to a box of propecia to get your information LOL
Yes, we know this drug causes pain in the testies, BUT WHY?
Because you read some piece of scientific literature that said pain in testes is caused by this or that, you then go ahead and ASSUME that the research everyone else has found on the same subject must be false! You’re hilarious!!
Please go ahead and find me the piece of scientific literature that states the reason for PFS with physical proof (not theory on a bit of paper) and then another that states how to cure it and only then will I give more weight to those ideas rather than anyone else’s here.
We keep having these same arguments Mew and I still think you’re trying to ram your ideas down people’s throat and stop any ideas that dont suit you, due to a bigger agenda. That agenda is a lawsuit.
You are window dressing this forum for Lawyers, are you not? Shouldn’t our health and recovery be the number one priority? And freedom to exchange ideas?
[Size=4]I feel like the most important questions are being drowned out because of the endless bickering. For some reason, people trying this new therapy are being held to a MUCH HIGHER standard than any other treatment. Instead of appreciating the fact that some people have taken initiative to explore this treatment, we are crucifying them for not reporting miraculous results for a therapy which by all accounts from the literature out there makes you suffer terrible regressions (you’re allowing an infection to re-permeate your system!). Please people, suspend judgment a little, offer more support, and perhaps the guys will be more inclined to share their insight and ordeal more. I imagine Solon is disillusioned with the mob mentality on this website, when all he was trying to do was share “Prostatitis treatment as a novel insight into Finasteride related problems.” Each one of us can connect dots all we want on paper, but to me, ACTUAL RESULTS FROM TREATMENT MATTER MORE! YOU CAN AND SHOULD ONLY CONNECT DOTS IN THIS REVERSE ORDER. AS IN: “THIS TREATMENT WORKED” SO LET’S REVERSE-ENGINEER OUR THEORIES. So I’ll re-post in hopes that this is noticed by Solon (can we try to wait for his response rather than contributing personal attacks and repetitive reiterations of theories ALREADY EXPRESSED A MILLION TIMES ON THIS THREAD AND OTHERS??:[/size]
[Size=4]Solon, I think what confuses most people is that they don’t truly understand what your “before” and “after” erections are like. And I think this is what MOST concerns MOST of us on this board. Perhaps, you can clarify this in no uncertain terms? What was your sex life BEFORE treatment? And what is it like NOW?[/size]
We’re all wondering—“Can I get my arousal from fantasy, porn, and WOMEN back—by treating CP with Dr. Georgiadis?”
Most of us have limp dicks in romantic moments. Most of us require Cialis, Viagra, Levitra, penile injections, or a cocktail of herbs and supplements to prop ourselves up to a semi-usable erection.
Will this treatment result in erections in all likelihood (barring exceptional cases and complications)?
I THINK you’re saying yes. I THINK you’re saying that you used to have erectile dysfunction, and now you’re having great sex (without Cialis, etc.). And that you are upset because you were hoping your testicles would improve in size. My guess is that most of us cannot even fathom the degree of testicular atrophy that you must have experienced (something like a steroid-abusing baseball player?), and therefore it’s hard for us to understand how this would be more important than getting ERECTIONS. I do have sympathy for you here, as it clearly bothers you. I have experienced some testicular shrinkage, but for me erections are the MAIN thing.
[Size=4]
Lastly, it is a little ambiguous how to plan for this treatment, because it appears it can take longer than expected, and follow-up visits do not seem uncommon.[/size]
Which is the best possible plan (assuming one has flexibility)?
• Is it best to allow for, say, about 2 months with the doctor? To do as many consecutive massages as possible?
• Is it better to get treated for about a month, go home, see how things improve, then follow-up as necessary?
If you could PLEASE try to respond line-for-line with precision, and as little ambiguity as possible, I think it would go a long way to clearing things up for people. Yes, I realize that every individual case is different, and so on. But GENERALLY speaking, in your best ESTIMATION, is the reality that people may need to get a one-way flight ticket and prepare for the possibility of an extended initial stay? Is the likelihood high that people would need to return a few months later for some follow-up therapies? This is kind of the “word on the street.”
I know you’ve been through HELL, and a LOT of scrutiny, so I thank you for continuing to come back and stand up for the cause and explain stuff. Again, if you could clear up the above questions, you may not have to keep re-posting. Sure, there are those who just don’t see eye-to-eye with you, but I ASSURE YOU, THERE ARE MANY MORE THAT ARE WATCHING EVERY WORD YOU POST AND APPRECIATE YOUR REPORTS BACK AND YOUR INTRODUCTION OF THIS THEORY AND TREATMENT. SO THANK YOU!
This bickering really needs to stop because it’s not getting us anywhere. As someone previously mentioned, we have a couple of guys out there aside from Solonjk and there are a few more heading out for treatment in the next month. Why can’t we just sit back for a moment and let the results speak for themselves? due to the nature of our symptoms and the attitude of most doctors out there, this is all we truly have to go on in my opinion. RESULTS.
It is indeed very suspect that Solonjk deleted all of his posts, but he just came back and declared that he is feeling FAR better than he ever has in his 7-8 years of suffering with PFS.
I do have a question in my mind though:
Why do hormonal treatments inflame the prostate further? let’s take some of the guys on this forum that have diagnosed low testosterone, underactive thyroid etc. If for example, one of these people supplemented with testosterone so that levels became normal, why is this bad for the prostate inflammation? surely leaving low/ hypogonadal testosterone levels would be worse?
Over the last week, i have been getting reasonably solid morning erections and even some spontaneous erections for the first time since all this shit began. I assume my testosterone and estrogen levels must be looking quite good at the moment for this to happen. However, ejaculate is becoming worse and worse and so is libido and shrinkage. I just cannot help but feel the theories centered around genetic changes/ silenced genes are going to end up being a complete waste of time. None of these things would happen to me if a genetic change occurred.
The reason this theory is being perhaps held to more scrutiny is that it’s proponents were hailing it as the cure. It quickly gathered steam, with no evidence of the Greek uro curing anyone, and now many men have gone to visit this guy, some from very far away. So people have every right to question if this is an effective treatment. In fact more men are visiting Kos than taking part in the biopsy, which is completely ridiculous.
And for what? The crux of solonjk’s argument is that ‘all them years’ he spent money on hormonal treatments with little results to show for it, it’s like this is his last throw of the dice and he’s investing all his hopes and emotions rather than any credible scientific theory in this treatment. Now he’s saying he should have followed Boston about the prostate, but he too tried a similar treatment in Tucson with only mild and short term results. Then other guys get hyped up and join in, and can’t seem to handle the slightest criticism. Some of the abuse being thrown at spstriken in particular in this thread should be worthy of a forum ban. I would ask that venceremos in particular refrains from childish tantrums anytime someone raises a small doubt about the Kos treatments.
Clearly using antibiotics brings (temporaray) relief for some people, probably due to some action at the cellular level. To make the jump that all problems stem from an infected prostate doesn’t make any sense, when we have men with muscle wastage that seems resistant to testosterone treatments. And how does prostatis explain blunted emotions, insomnia, twitches etc all developing within 2-3 weeks of quitting as we see so many times? It doesn’t, because the theory is desperately poor. Maybe if I had only sexual sides I would want to believe it, but even then it would be more out of hope and desperation rather than expectation.
The fact is that there are many men on this forum who do not wish to face up to the complexity of the problem, and cling on to theories like this out of self-delusion and fear. I appreciate it is not easy to grasp that there might not be a cure out there, at the moment anyway, but we are finally getting help and attention to help us solve this awful problem.
I don’t know if this post will just add to the clutter on this thread already.
I’ve spoken to Dr. John about this and he thinks the prostate theory is worth investigating and thinks it could be a part of our problems, so let’s stop all this arguing back and forth on whether it’s the right theory or not. No point in trying to discredit this theory. Let’s see what the results of the people who are going to see Dr. G.
Also everyone reacts to medication differently that’s why we’re in this mess, fin was suppose to reduce prostate size but for some me included we have enlarged prostates.
Let’s all hope this works and it’s a piece to the puzzle we have to solve, even if it isn’t the root cause it could be a factor.
There’s obviously people who are willing to spend their time, money and inconvenience their lives to see if this leads to any promising results, so we should at least hope that this works and they see improvements.
Could EVERYONE please stop arguing and stop posting unless you’ve had this treatment. Do you have any idea how much pressure you are putting on those being treated?
I would actually recommend those being treated to create their own thread as there’s so much junk here. As i’ve said results or no results speak for themselves regardless of theory.
Let me them post in their own time and lend them your support no matter what happens.
well said 19!
That is a low blow J89… you know as well as I do that I joined the Yahoo group in 2005, before this site even existed, looking for answers to why I experienced post-Fin hypogonadal symptoms. I then took it upon myself to establish this site to generate awareness about our plight. This has since led to increasing medical, media and now, legal awareness which has resulted in potential litigation against the manufacturer, as many have been crying out for.
This forum has always been about trying to research, organize, provide support, exchanging of ideas, and sharing experiences as a way to generate awareness about this problem, and see if there are any successful ways to improve symptoms. This forum is not “window dressing for lawyers” beyond the simple and single fact that it exists as a place for men suffering from this problem.
Yes, and that is why it exists. As well, to be of assistance to scientific researchers, who we need to help us investigate and find the root cause.
Agreed. Besides the above, I’ve said my piece for now.
The one thing I still think we all deserve an answer to, as a moral obligation, is why Solonjk deleted his ENTIRE POST HISTORY off this site, after proposing this theory and Dr. G to treat it. We still have received no answer from him on this, which is impacting others’ decisions to undertake it.
Besides Solonjk’s answer to this question and those who have gone for treatment, I think we should leave this thread be for now.
thanks Luckfax.
All people who are going to Greece are using their own health, money, time etc. What they do is not my business.I will not make any posts about prostate theory on this thread any more but expect to be respected by all members.
It is comments like this that builds up friction in this thread, and your chain has to be pulled! You must accept responsibility for most of the bickering here.
I have nothing personal against you or anyone else here. But with numerous posts in the past 2 days from our members calling for the bickering to end, what do you go and do? You need to realise how a comment like this can provoke certain people.
You dont agree with the theory…you should step away. Anyone who wants to keep posting relevant material or positive posts should be allowed to remain. The fact is that most on here are aware that this is the hottest thread on the site at the minute and most want to chime in and make themselves heard.
There are tons of other threads to get involved in or create.
Mew
what you posted is very scary and indeed I have also found some research already similar to this where it was shown that after treatment with fin / saw palmetto etc (I will have to dig that study and I am sure I have posted here) prostate tissues under went atrophy/degeneration and developed irregular scar tissues. Since study was focused on prostate area I am sure similar changes would have taken place in other parts of our body as well depending how much they are dependent on androgens. Now if this is true ( unfortunately there is no reason to be untrue) then what are our options? I mean our story is over. I have not fully read your theories but if labs confirm what are your plan of actions.
SPSTRIKEN,
Do not contact me via PM again. If you have anything relevant to say to me you can say it here or in any public thread I am engaged in.
I recommend you create a new thread for this, so as not to hijack this one.