Prostatitis treatment as a novel insight into Finasteride related problems

I don’t know if prostatis can be the root cause of our problems but it could definitely be a factor one of the things we have to deal with post fin. I know before any treatment after taking fin a urologist said I had an enlarged prostate, but it wasn’t affecting my urination so he didn’t want to do anything and I stupidly agreed.

I definitely think this is worth looking into.

As J89 mentioned, we’re all here for one purpose to get this taken care of so we could all carry on with our lives. No point in poking fun at others because they’re willing to try different methods and treatments, as conventional methods of treating this hasn’t yielded any positive results for this yet.

Solonjk and others going to see Dr. G in Greece, please keep us updated on your progress.

Come on. You absolutely cannot say that prostatitis CANNOT be the root cause of Post-FINASTERIDE-Sydrome because some FEMALES have a similar syndrome from ACCUTANE use… Please try to be a little more rational. “I dont think prostatitis is the cause of pfs. How can…” would have been correct. We know you are already a firm beleiver and proponent of chilln’s theory, no need to abruptly and definitively condemn another promising theory based on such weak reasoning and argumentation.

Prostatitis CAN be the root cause of PFS. Why??? - Because the root cause is still unknown.

That is very easy to understand.

We’re going around in circles.

While absolute root cause may be unknown, if you look at the published research, LOGICALLY the most LIKELY area for investigation still has to do with androgenic function being disrupted by the drug. This is also supported by doctors like Traish, Irwig and Jacobs who are actively trying to investigate this problem.

I already gave my thoughts on this before in following posts, with excerpts to argue my point (see images):

viewtopic.php?p=36590#p36590
viewtopic.php?p=37406#p37406

That is my opinion and I stand by it until we get some real answers in the lab to confirm one way or the other.

Hi mew. I havent written anything off. But until the root cause is found then no other seeminly logical theory as to what the root cause might be can be discounted.

Just a question. Is there any research going on behind the scenes to do with the whole androgenic sitiuation. Does ongoing research take place without being mentioned on this site? I would be very interested to know. Does Irwigs reseach cover this?

Not behind the scenes. It’s happening as we speak.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5282&p=39300#p39300

Research initiatives not being mentioned publicly would be at the researchers’ request, which could be for various reasons. So if there were a request for this, we would have to respect it.

Cover what? Awor’s molecular research? No.

Dr. Irwig is conducting a different study: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4815

Is there any research taking place at present to tackle the androgenic side of things?

I’m not sure I understand why this question is being asked again, as I thought I just replied to it.

Awor’s study should hopefully provide insights into this area – Androgen Receptor signaling.

Pls review:
viewtopic.php?p=39407#p39407

Also, this post (John_123’s quote):
viewtopic.php?p=39412#p39412

Did you have a different definition of “androgenic side of things”?

Has anyone, preferably in the US, spoke with their insurance provider regarding them paying for some of the treatment? I typitcally dont have to deal insurance because I’m under my parents insurance…

Those who support the prostatitis theory have made their claims.

Those who do not support the prostatitis theory have made their claims.

Let’s stop the tit for tat comments, effective immediately.

There are members in Kos already and those headed there shortly. Let’s support these folks. They have made this trip at great expense (time, money, pain) in the hope of helping themselves and some of us. If you think they are wasting time, it’s theirs to waste.

Now let’s get back on topic.

The root cause…

The main organs targeted are in the genital area, and this includes prostate, testicles, epididymis, and most glands around there.

Finasteride shrinks all these organs.

Immunity drops in these organs, metabolism is also swifted (read research about it Mew posted it).

Any bacteria that previously did nothing to the local flora start causing issues. Your organism will attack them and inflammation process starts.

The lasting co-inhibition of T to dht conversion adds up to more problems. Dht is important not only for structural purposes but also for immune mediated ones. Don’t forget that dht attacks hair follicles in your hair and destroys them, it has powerful immune-modulating capacities, differing ones in hair follicles and different in prostate tissue. Imagine what role it may play in the organs where it is not produced adequately anymore. Then you get a vicious cycle. More inflammation, low dht being produced for quite a while, less areas to convert T to dht.

Step of treating the inflammation.

Thats where i started feeling all my low androgen related symptoms coming back. My energy, my strength, sexual feelings and erectile strength, hair-loss and sebum production they all came back from just reducing inflammation.

Why didn’t all of those symptoms come back when i took the different hormone cocktails? Testosterone levels i raised to the 1000ands and estrogen i kept under normals for way too long and no androgenic results where seen. NONE. Only when the inflammation was dropped did i see any positive changes till now.

By the way i have deleted all my posts till today. Not only the ones in the current topic.

Finasteride has caused major damage to our organs and this has been neglected badly.
Despite the fact that some people in the past notified us of the damage done to our prostates.
Does any one remember BOSTON?? Try searching for his posts? He was the first to get better with massages and antibiotics, but some of us made fun of him. He kept telling us to look into that direction but Noooo… We had to make it far more complicated than it should be…
Why not treat the simple and then advance to the complicated for once?

We have concentrated on hormonal parametres mostly (not that they don’t play a role, but not in numbers like we kept stressing about) and this was bad for people reading all that and making choices. And then when we saw that restoring hormones didn’t do the trick we jumped to extraterrestial research about the integrity and physiology of the androgen receptor… And that was not the end, now some are looking for something further than that…

You know i also feel responsible for some of the misunderstandings here. We should have never got into so much detail.

I don’t really like lumping in accutane with our situation. I have talked to my physician about this and he has suggested the mechanism for accutane side effects are due to loss of vitamin a sensitivity.

I agree on the moratorium on personal attacks.

I agree that we should support each other, especially those sticking their necks out to try new, progressive theories and treatments.

Solon, I’m glad that you’ve received a measure of reversal of your erectile dysfunction, libido, and energy, and thank you for coming back to tie it all together. I do think that this is one of the most promising leads and explanations for our problems, and it would be a mistake to not research the DHT deprivation / prostate / immunity link to finasteride. There is no need to ignore this vital organ and the effect of a drug we took that by its very indication targeted it, reduced it, inflamed it, and apparently is even responsible for higher risk of high-grade cancers, among so many other things. If we all find that we have some form of chronic prostatitis, this doesn’t suddenly contradict PFS. It redefines it. It makes me ALL the more vigilant in recommending that friends and loved ones never ever ever touch finasteride/proscar/propecia for any type of treatment, not just cosmetic androgenic alopecia, but also for any urinary or prostate-related condition. It’s simply too risky, it’s not a good idea to alter your hormones or shrink vital organs so radically.

I agree with Solon—why make it so much more complicated? If you took a heart-shrinking pill and started experiencing irregular heart beats, would you say your skin tissue was becoming insensitive to blood? I realize this is a ridiculous example, but I think you get what I’m saying. You took a prostate-affecting/shrinking drug, the prostate has very important roles to play with respect to uro-genital function and sex hormones. Your symptoms lie within these parameters, and their byproducts. There is ample literature that indicates that chronic prostatitis can cause all these symptoms. Why the fear over exploring this area?

As previously linked to by Venceremos:




I agree. It’s a different drug. Some similarities in symptoms, but it’s just not the same.

And we also don’t have to explain the precise mechanisms of action of 5AR inhibitors in women. As previously alluded to, despite their different anatomy, women have parallel organs and anatomical parts, and those organs and parts may be similarly compromised by taking 5AR inhibitors. Yeah, women don’t have prostates. But they don’t have penises or erections either. So we won’t necessarily find the unifying answer across genders by fitting the theory onto a single, shared organ.

[Size=4]Solon, I think what confuses most people is that they don’t truly understand what your “before” and “after” erections are like. And I think this is what MOST concerns MOST of us on this board. Perhaps, you can clarify this in no uncertain terms? What was your sex life BEFORE treatment? And what is it like NOW?[/size]

We’re all wondering—“Can I get my arousal from fantasy, porn, and WOMEN back—by treating CP with Dr. Georgiadis?”

Most of us have limp dicks in romantic moments. Most of us require Cialis, Viagra, Levitra, penile injections, or a cocktail of herbs and supplements to prop ourselves up to a semi-usable erection.

Will this treatment result in erections in all likelihood (barring exceptional cases and complications)?

I THINK you’re saying yes. I THINK you’re saying that you used to have erectile dysfunction, and now you’re having great sex (without Cialis, etc.). And that you are upset because you were hoping your testicles would improve in size. My guess is that most of us cannot even fathom the degree of testicular atrophy that you must have experienced (something like a steroid-abusing baseball player?), and therefore it’s hard for us to understand how this would be more important than getting ERECTIONS. I do have sympathy for you here, as it clearly bothers you. I have experienced some testicular shrinkage, but for me erections are the MAIN thing.
[Size=4]
Lastly, it is a little ambiguous how to plan for this treatment, because it appears it can take longer than expected, and follow-up visits do not seem uncommon.[/size]

Which is the best possible plan (assuming one has flexibility)?
• Is it best to allow for, say, about 2 months with the doctor? To do as many consecutive massages as possible?
• Is it better to get treated for about a month, go home, see how things improve, then follow-up as necessary?

If you could PLEASE try to respond line-for-line with precision, and as little ambiguity as possible, I think it would go a long way to clearing things up for people. Yes, I realize that every individual case is different, and so on. But GENERALLY speaking, in your best ESTIMATION, is the reality that people may need to get a one-way flight ticket and prepare for the possibility of an extended initial stay? Is the likelihood high that people would need to return a few months later for some follow-up therapies? This is kind of the “word on the street.”

I know you’ve been through HELL, and a LOT of scrutiny, so I thank you for continuing to come back and stand up for the cause and explain stuff. Again, if you could clear up the above questions, you may not have to keep re-posting. Sure, there are those who just don’t see eye-to-eye with you, but I ASSURE YOU, THERE ARE MANY MORE THAT ARE WATCHING EVERY WORD YOU POST AND APPRECIATE YOUR REPORTS BACK AND YOUR INTRODUCTION OF THIS THEORY AND TREATMENT. SO THANK YOU!

Solonjk, why have you done this? Why have you deleted your entire history off this site?

You still have yet to address this important question which, as you know, will likely determine if some people decide to pursue this treatment and doctor.

What misunderstandings? The only thing people aren’t clear about is why you have deleted all your posts from the forum, and the info within them now gone. Can you pls answer this question for all of us?

“Should have never gotten into so much detail”? Not sure I agree there. Getting into detail is important so people can really understand what you are talking about, vs. being vague.

Can you clarify your thoughts on all this please, because what you are saying doesn’t really make sense to me and possibly others. Trying as best I can to understand your thought process and where you’re coming from. Thanks.

who the hell you are to tell me to not post here?

Listen, spstriken, I don’t want to attack you…but when you requested this:

…I made no further postings on your thread. But you continually come here and offer patronizing monetary rewards and premature “I told you so’s”. Please…enough! You don’t believe in the treatment being discussed in this thread (which is perfectly all right), and you have your own thread to discuss your angle. Stop creating distractions; those of us planning or considering this treatment have very specific questions of Solon, and you just clutter up the thread with repetitious condescending remarks. Please…follow your own advice, and don’t post anything further–your position is clear. Thank you.

i agree with this theory, this was the first theory that came to my mind, its the simplest and makes most sense (after all the drug is used to shrink prostate) could be other things are involved also but the root is from the shrinking of prostate and testicles causing inflamation. testicles hurting the first few days proves that some inflamation was going on, also there is some hardness in penis like a fibrois(also can be a form o inflamation). solon what steps have you taken to get rid of this inflamation in penis testicles prostate?

To the contrary, this proves nothing to do with inflamation whatsoever. Testicular pain is a documented side effect of Finasteride:

The reason for testicular pain logically and very likely has to do with Testosterone upregulation, since Finasteride is documented to upregulate T production by up to 15% on drug (due to inhibition of T --> 5AR2 --> DHT pathway).

Further, studies have shown leydig cell hyperplasia and adenomas in animal models treated with Finasteride (due to increased LH levels. LH tells the testes to produce Testosterone):

Your statement that just because “your nuts hurt when you take Finasteride proves you have inflammation in the testes” is conjecture, and is not supported by the published research which already provides a logical explanation (Testosterone upregulation, hyperplasia of leydig cells due to working harder to produce more Testosterone, since it cannot convert to DHT).

Penile fibrosis is due to androgen deprivation from Finasteride, as DHT is required for proper genital structure and tissue function.

Removing DHT can cause collagenous deposits and fibrosis:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59

Attached penile tissue images from: Effect of androgen deprivation on penile ultrastructure.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12647000

Chiller20, I have presented published articles that can logically explain the symptoms you are describing. Please provide articles that connect Finasteride use to testicular inflammation, if you believe this is what is occurring. Cheers.