There really isn’t any need for daily updates as such, be patient. By August i will definitely be expecting some updates though.
Afterwards of course, but apparently the doctor suggests that you don’t take them during treatment.
I feel badly for anyone that desperately spent their hard earned money for this theory. This should be a lesson for us to be very careful with who we trust. There are plentey of snake oil salesmen out there, that are happy to take our money.
Sadly this is the most logical theory IMO. I have wanted to believe some of these more simple theories, but I always think back to my degradation that happened when I quit. The side effects came on quickly when I quit. Almost as if, something was turned off in my body. That doesn’t fit with Prostatitis theory at all.
Seriously???
Damn, not again…
Boston, can’t you read??? viewtopic.php?p=39883#p39883
You guys should consider joining a “persistent bias-induced deafness and blindness to plausible argumentation” forum
And how exactly is this a “lesson”? Solonjk act is strange but for the moment we cannot make definite conclusions about the integrity of Dr G based on this! Nothing has been proven nor debunked yet… The chronic prostatitis theory is still valid (and I might add the most credible) and Dr G treatment still appears to very probably be a valid (if not the best) approach to treat it, for the moment.
I mean, seriously… This is unbeleivable… And quite pathetic to see some of you eagerly jumping on this situation to yell “see, I told you so”, without much rational thinking.
I have only just read this properly and i have to say, it’s very discouraging. Also, Oscar should be banned from this thread, the guys a complete and utter prick.
We also must remember that Solon was a unique case.
Having a prostate expert tell him he was “one of the worst cases ever seen” can explain why he was so difficult to treat. Solon, it would appear, is extremely messed up down there…maybe moreso than most.
Maybe many of us who never tried hormones will be easier to treat.
Also, we have to bear in mind that after treatment it can take months to start to feel better.
The TRUS will not lie. And getting a second opinion on the scan from another expert might be a wise option.
Georgiadis never claimed he could cure PFS. He has been very carefull to date with his words via email. He treats prostatitis, and if the TRUS shows prostatitis…he treats prostatitis. If the TRUS shows nothing…he does nothing. Thats his job, and it would appear that he is very good at it. So please lets not bring his integrity into question. SOLON (AND NOW THE REST OF US) found HIM, HE did not come loking for US.
Peronally, If the treatment didnt treat PFS entirely, but took away my prostatitis (if its there), then it would be worth it just to know that my overall health was in check…just like Id get treament if I broke a leg, had bad migraines, had diabetes or whatever.
Id say the fact its discouraging depends on your case.
Solonjk says that Dr G treatment can still be THE final solution FOR MOST…
Lets not forget that he is the worst case the doc has ever seen, infected with staph aureus, rendered ultra resistant by past use of antiobiotics, and also had exacerbated genital inflammation from hormones use.
If you havent abused from either, your case should be much more easily treatable by doc G.
Also “long lasting deprivation of DHT has changed a lot of things”: I guess that it depends on how long you have used finasteride for, and wether you kept losing hair and growing facial/body hair post cessation. I think a lot of us here arent too bad in that regard.
EDIT
Well looks like sean beat me to it
Although
My radiologist (yeah, unfortunately not a uro), whom performed it on me didnt see anything and told me that it didnt mean in any way that I didnt have a prostatitis…
Hi Vence. I meant the TRUS and opinion with Georgiadis himself. Possibly leading to a second opinion from another top expert if one feels it necessary.
Yeah “my behavior is completely Suspect” doctor Mew or should i say honorable judge Mew??
Instead of asking your contact dr. Irwig to include a bit more updated info in his research protocols, (he is testing for post-finasteride users after all, not just hypogonadic), and that means he should definately count androstanediola-glucuronide, at least, let alone ask patients to get a Transrectal Ultrasound since it is a matter of mere logic to check people’s prostates since they used a PROSTATE AFFECTING (SHRINKING) DRUG, you judge me because i 've decided to leave this forum that has done major harm to me and minor good.
If it wasn’t for all the scientific balooney i kept reading in here for all them years i wouldn’t be here right now. If i had been a couple years earlier to this doc i would save my nuts now and not pray to God every day to keep them intact.
But you and some other internet based self-baptized medical scientists kept critisizing the most logical side effect of post-finasteride use, and that is prostatitis.
By the way, not to mention that you personally are only judging people.
You haven’t tried any treatment what so ever as i remember, not even aspirin post-finasteride
You haven’t payed a slice portion of the money i have spent to get here
and as for dr. Irwig research with such vague total T and DihydroT measurements it is still in the stoneage and this is only giving time for Merck’s patent to end. By the way, he kept on contacting me to declare DEPRESSION DEPRESSION DEPRESSION as the major side effect post fin.
Well, now i guess he has an obligation to check peoples 5-ar II activity and prostate status if he wants to help really to get a blow on Merck’s drug.
Otherwise you can sue some ghost company when the patent ends.
As for how i feel, offcourse i feel a thousand bucks i had sex last night and it was like the first day in my life, i actually felt better very soon into treatment but the problem is the inflammation had spread very deeply and my testicles where completely wacked even before i reached the doc.
Got to go now,
Again wishful behaveour . I am not starting a war here. It is so obvious that it is not prostate problem. Why you guys close your eyes when I say it is tissue/ cellular issue. When I say it is not male’s issue? why ? why? What has happened to your minds?
Listen in 2009 when my sides occured to me I called my doctor brother (he works in USA) and told all and begged him to send me some clomids He refused. He said right away this is very comlicated issue which he had not seen ( He constantly treats hypogonadal men).
I fought with him and stopped talking to him for months. I am happy today he did not give me clomids.
If you still want to live in Island of insanity the good luck with your money, health and time.
sps
Listen guys, let’s just take stock here briefly. As someone that visits this forum often but posts rarely, I feel compelled to speak up and offer an objective and reasoned viewpoint here.
Firstly, please can we just stop this in-fighting. We’re dealing with a serious and threatening condition that would make any adult scared, but instead of helping each other we often seem to end up fighting like children. Desperation should create camaraderie, not a load of ridiculous egos. Please can we just treat each other with respect, and treat every theory and opinion on its merit, and not bring disrespectful language into this. That even includes you , Mew. Clearly we owe you big time for all you’ve done here, and I for one admire your work greatly, but sometimes your attitude does not diffuse a situation, which is what your role as moderator should be.
Secondly, regarding prostatitis, spstriken and others, yes, you may well be right that it is not at the heart of our problems. I actually agree with you on that. But certainly many of us do have prostatitis, quite clearly, and so treating it is likely to illicit positive effects. Surely we must have all realised by now that PFS is a jigsaw puzzle, the solution to which, for some of us, includes curing prostatitis. I think, whatever we think, we should be grateful of those investing a great deal in seeking treatment which could ultimately benefit many others here.
Let’s all calm down, be realistic, and, most importantly, help each other and treat each other with respect. For any doctors that look at this site (and I persuaded my endo to do so the other day for the first time), we must appear like immature kids rather than sufferers who are dedicated, and have achieved a lot in terms of, self-educating ourselves about an extremely complex issue. It will be harder for us to be taken seriously if we keep up some of the language used here.
Before posting in future, everyone please think about how this looks externally, as well as how frustrated you feel - however understandable that may be.
Spstriken, imagine a second that solonjk never had started this thread. What would blasé have done? Definitely wouldnt have insisted to get a TRUS done (the one that confirmed prostatitis). So he would have stayed with undiagnosed chronic prostatitis until more severe symptoms of that condition eventually got introduced, (maybe much) later. Until then, he would probably have started to play with hormones like most suggest here (and like Jacobs told him to do by email). What would have happened to him? Like most here, most probably initially improvement of well being, then worsening, due to WORSENING OF THE INFLAMMATION CAUSED BY THE ADDED T. Which would havbe rendered his prostatitis much more difficult to treat and cure for real, LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO SOLONJK.
How can you still say “this is so obviously not a prostate issue” when people have had it DIAGNOSED? Seriouly spstriken, please dont ever post in that thread again, you are worthless.
THIS!
Solonjk, based on your lasts post and this very last one it seems that we can deduce that you arent disavowing Dr G’s treatment at all, but I think that you can understand how your deletion of all your posts mentionning the therapy are spreading doubts in people’s mind, some of them whom already have just arrived in Kos to start treatment, others whom are scheduled and have organized everything to leave in just a few days or weeks! (I’m leaving TOMORROW, appointment with the doc in 3 days)
I understand that you might not feel the best feelings right now towards this website, but I think that you can also understand how important it is for you to clarify why you have done what you have done with your posts, so people can stop freaking out!!
Personally my mind is much more at ease now and I’m leaving to Kos with no doubts in my minds anymore, but I really can understand why others are considering canceling everything.
Do as you wish but you are wasting your cash. We have seen scant evidence that this is an effective treatment. Now consider the poster of this thread has deleted all his posts with no reason. I can’t believe so many guys here are wasting so much time and money on this when Awor has begun an actual microbiological investigation. This entire thread is making us all look foolish.
agree,
i think we should pay attention at awor’s thread viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5282&start=40 , and if possible take part in the experiment.
I will do as I wish and you should keep such useless and negative comments for yourself. Such a baseless and accusatory affirmation is absolutely unneeded and uncalled for, those who are going to see the doc that early without much consequent feedback obviously accepted to take a risk somehow, but NOTHING here has proven that the treatment is ineffective/a waste of money/a scam. You should even consider deleting this mean and stupid post unless you want to look as dumb and bitter as Spstriken and Oscar.
Ok, I agree there is simply too much “in-fighting” going on here and we are simply riling each other up. Emotionally, this problem is difficult to deal with and I think that’s why we’re all so passionate about it. We’re all looking for the same thing here, answers, treatments or better still, a cure. Research initiatives currently underway may help shed light in this area.
Theory-wise, as mentioned before, people can post-whatever they want on an anonymous Internet forum, so it’s important to evaluate such info objectively and with a critical perspective (ie, backed by scientific papers). Otherwise it is simply all one anonymous poster’s opinion vs. another, based on “belief” and emotion vs. logic/published evidence/facts. I am not saying this about the prostatitis thread specifically, I am saying this IN GENERAL as a reminder to all (which I’m sure you all get it by now).
Anyway, Solonjk, I’m sorry you feel slighted and feel I was personally attacking you, which is not the case – I was questioning what I and others perceived to be erratic behaviour all of a sudden. As a long-time member, why would you all of a sudden “leave the forum” and delete your post history throughout this thread, which you were/are a huge proponent of? This critical question still has not been answered by you. Why?
Yes, you have come back and posted, however you have given a reply which STILL has not answered people’s questions about this behavior. Despite you stating “the most logical side effect of post-finasteride use, and that is prostatitis” (yes, agreed – as a symptom post-Fin, I would not discount it; however, this is different than stating it is the “root cause” of PFS) , such behavior has cast doubt for some about this theory and Dr. G. If you believe so strongly in this thread/doctor as a solution to people’s problems, why would you jeopardize it with this behavior and provide no explanation for it?
If you feel I have offended you, my apologies. Again, I pretty much remained silent throughout this entire thread and only really chimed in near the end after the perceived strange behavior of you (a long-time member) deleting your posts, declaring you are leaving the site and are only available by PM all of a sudden, just as people are getting set to book or are already in appointments with the doctor. As others have mentioned and to put others’ minds at ease, an explanation for such decisions would be appreciated, as it effects others’ decisions to follow through on seeking possible treatment for prostatitis (if confirmed and present) with Dr. G.
I’m sure I speak for all when I say this, in that we are looking forward to your answer and reason for this recent behaviour. Cheers.
I agree 100% with Mew here. Prostatitis cannot be the root cause of pfs. How can otherwise females be affected by PFS too (eg accutane sufferers), since they don’t have a prostate?
Therefore, the treatment performed by this dr must be beneficial for some other reason than “curing prostatitis”.
As other people are going to see this doctor we will know whether it is reproducible or not. If it is there is something to be explored here. I don’t think any of us can make judgements yet. We simply do not know. The prostate does play in androgen metabolism and finasteride does affect the prostate. We know that much. It increases the risk of high grade prostate cancer. Prostatitis like symptoms have been seen in PFS patients. It makes sense to try and treat the prostate. Whether it is the root cause of our issues is unclear but it could be a secondary issue which prevents the primary issue from switching back on if you see what i mean. I personally have had all round benefits on one antibiotic and others have had too. We should not discard any improvements if they don’t fit the popular theory. I have often laid in bed thinking why oh why did that help me? I do not know and to be honest neither does anyone here. Doctors have theories but no real results have come of any theory yet. So we cannot say they are correct. We cannot say they are wrong either.
I am leaving as many doors open as possible as it would be foolish to close them as biology has not progressed enough to do that. I look to results and i think solonjk has made big leaps in getting better. He is one of the oldest sufferers here. I can imagine him wanting to try and get on with life like JN. It may not work for everyone like xyrem, weak demethylating agents, hormonal modulation, T3 did nothing overall positive for me.
As for women not having prostates.They don’t have prostates in the male sense but they do have an area akin to the prostate in men the same way the clitoris is the female penis. I’m not coming to any conclusion here…just saying.
I look forward to hearing from anyone else undergoing treatment and i wish you all the best. I also hope you guys aren’t ignoring awors study either. That is very important.