You have an obligation to let people know why you have done what you have done. This is a moral issue! People are spending money and putting lots of effort going to Greece for a similar treatment. If it hasn’t worked and things have got worse then please say. If it never worked in the first place please say. There is a whole load of doubt over this theory now. I would rather know it was a failure than you leave us all hanging. Surely you know how tough our situation is and how we look stories like yours with a sense of potential hope.
I don’t know how important the prostate is in our problems but if what you have said is true it is helpful. I don’t know what to think now. You either no longer believe it is working, or it never worked in the first place, or you’re just going a little nuts.
You’ve been an active poster on this forum for so long - why you leaving now??? And why delete your posts?
As for Mews contention over the prostate idea - i understand his skepticism. The only reason i have given this idea a second look in is due to my prostate pain and a degree of very real improvement with antibiotics. Don’t argue with Mew as his argument is more scientific at the moment and don’t forget to support awors endeavours. I have my own issues with the theory but it is a good idea. These guys are working hard for us! Don’t forget that.
Any word from noiman, gefinauser or anyone else in Greece who has met solonjk???
From the tone of his last 3 posts, I didn’t get the impression he had the major, long-lasting improvements he was expecting. That’s just how I interpret what he posted, however.
Yes, it’s not really clear to me what he’s referring to anymore. These other points he wrote seem to contradict the above:
Truly, only he can clarify his posts or answer any questions, I’d rather not make assumptions. Unfortunately, for me (and I assume others as they have requested multiple times what, if any improvements he has had) his responses thus far have been vague (ie one or two sentences) in terms of what effects the treatment actually had on him.
Difficulty with arguing with Mew to me rather seems to stem from the fact that he has the amazing ability to render himself totally deaf to any argument supporting a theory that he doesnt beleive in :
Explanation (yes only a theory but backed up with factual observation of his own case, and other prostatitis cases) has been given by solonjk many times in this very thread :
Inflammation flares up exponentially as DHT reintroduces the prostatic cells once normal 5AR activity is back -->prostatitis–>messed up hormonal loops and possibly inflamed gonads–>clinical hypogonadism
Again, the theory isnt that “chronic prostatitis” was present prior to fin, but that STD pathogens were present in the prostate but controlled by the immune system and not doing any harm (early, asymptomatic stage of what would have become chronic prostatitis only decades later without finasteride). Then fin lowers local immunity, etc etc…(see above).
So If that 20 yo is a virgin, then yes it is tricky; if he EVER has had unprotected sex, there is your explanation.
And gardnerella vaginalis here is just one pathogen, we know that chlamydia is also very common and can stay asymptomatic for a long time.
Again, 5AR activity returns like it’s supposed to, DHT floods back the prostatic cells only to induce a flare up of the inflammation caused by the pathogens (which have been able to develop thanks to lowered immunity caused by fin), chronic inflammation settles in–>clinical hypogonadism
Sigh… Really?
Traish, Irwig and Jacobs have so far provided nothing but theories to explain our condition as far as I’m concerned (or they just explained some of the mechanisms, not the underlying cause although they do have theories for that), and their theories are no more valid to my eyes than the “chronic prostatitis theory” is.
Again, chronic prostatitis settles in–>lower T(documented in prostatitis patients)–>depression, lower libido, ED, brain fog, low energy, muscle loss etc,etc…
also inflamed prostate–>lower 5AR 2 activity–>lower DHT–>estrogen dominance, gynecomastia, ED, depression, etc
ALso remember this, that you posted yourself here propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=18429#p18429
I dont see what’s wrong with the Doc beleiving that everybody with our symptoms (the same that are shared by his chronic prostatitis patients) is due to chronic prostatitis, based on his experience with the subject.
That’s a low blow, until solonjk answers to any of us, you are the only one putting Dr G credibility into question, and solonjk, based on his post history, still is credible to me. I just have to know why he deleted his posts to really form a definite opinion about this.
Again, this has been said many times in this thread… Fin-induced “Chronic prostatitis” as THE “root” cause of everything PFS related has been explained thoroughly, and better than any other “root cause” theory I might add.
Again, fin–>5AR inhibition–>lower DHT–>lower androgenicity (for most, as people react differently to DHT. Androgen receptors are also receptive to T, my guess is some people are really much more DHT-reactive while some get enough androgenicity from T alone). So,
For some the lower androgenicity is intense while on fin (and then they either recover upon cessation, or crash if they develop prostatitis with return of more DHT)
For others, 5AR inhibition wont lower their androgenicity that much, but they will crash as per the explanation already provided above (lowered immunity–>pathogens increase, then fin cessation–>5AR activity returns–>DHT returns–>prostate gets inflammed, chronic prostatitis settles in–>hypogonadism–>depression, lower libido, ED, brain fog, low energy, muscle loss etc,etc… also inflamed prostate–>lower 5AR 2 activity–>lower DHT–>estrogen dominance, gynecomastia, depression, etc)
Some of this might just be theory and isnt backed up by scientific research papers, but I havent looked hard for them (some of the unproven stuff here has likely already been proven somewhere), and even for the purely speculative parts, those are still EXPLANATIONS that have already been provided to you MANY TIMES… but you will still always ask “explain me how blah blah etc” as if no plausible (even purely speculative) explanation had ever been given to the question you are asking.
You seriously need to be honest with yourself and accept that you have a problem receiving any argument for that theory in particular, when any other theory that fits better with what you have set your mind on already will be received with not nearly as much skepticism or demanding scientific requirements.
Oh and blasé (3months post fin) and a few other have had prostatitis diagnosed by urologists who are not Dr G.
And shall I remind you, blasé had all PFS symptoms (loss of libido, ED etc) with barely any of the pelvic pains associated with prostatitis.
I guess this doesnt mean anything to you.
EDIT
OK, I cant know and it might be wishful thinking, but I think that solonjk maybe wanted to provide a unique, thorough post on this theory and delete all his “approximative” posts about it for other users.
Look at how he edited the very first post in this thread, it looks like an outline that he maybe plans to develop later.
this all prostate theory was BS. I wrote many times against this crap then gave up. yes inflammation is there but it is not in just one part it is every where. I wanted to stop people from wasting their money but wishful thinkers were turning against me. I was not stupid when I say I will give $500 to first person who gets healed, indeed I came here today to increase it to $5000 but wow! what is going on here.
so Why I was so confident?
I exchanged PMS with FTMs they were suffering same as we do after SP use.
Ladies who took fin/SP/accutan suffering same as we do.
I exchanged emails with Danish health ministry. The confirmed sides from SP but refused to share their studies. Chances are if Canadian health department contact them they we can get some help. I showed my emails to my GP and he paid no attention.
So I theorized , it is independent of gender as I have posted under theory thread already.
I again very strongly suggest please get biopsy of our tissues to labs and find out
1-If there is any gene mutations? 2- If there is cellular atrophy or damage? Unfortunately this the most I suspect after discussing with some phDs. Unfortunately I can not backup this point with any studies.
If dont do this then people will keep inventing theories and wasting their time and monies. I would have done my self this all but I am married and have a family. With children, no energy and fatigue I can not do any thing. I tried to contact Doctors and health department here in Canada but I got disappointed.
if a person starts feeling better on Cipro, then starts to feel bad again or the Cipro results do not stick - this is perhaps a reason why (if a bacterial infection is indeed the trigger we all share)
I do think Mew has been a little harsh on this idea - in the sense he has not believed solonjk when he said he was “95% recovered”. I, too have had no real hormonal discrepancies.
Arrfffggghhhhh shut up. Stop fighting. Unsuprised of Mew’s stance but if you haven’t figured out already, solon is fighting a pretty harsh and difficult battle against the worst type of staph FOR ONE THING. You can read about staph aureus from wikipedia.
When solon told you that the worst thing you can do during prostatitis is to use hormone supplements, he really was trying to warn/help you guys.
I don’t know what to say about this exactly or why he went and removed his posts - either it’s depression (bit unlikely but not impossible. I haven’t spoken with him for couple of days to know) or he has deciced to post again when he sees a definite recovery out of consideration. He usually speaks here/posts or writes briefly always anyways.
EDIT And venceromos seems to be right, the first post seems like a reminder for himself maybe for a bigger post later on. Makes sense to me and you know, i’ve spoken with him countless of times here in Kos face to face. he only has couple of hours during day when he does NOT have fatigue.
Please, calm down people. I’ll answer to the pm’s/questions that have been hanging at the beginning of the next week. This flu/fever/now sore throat has been suprisingly harsh on me and i’m pretty sure this is to be expected while on antibiotics. Had a hell of a hypoglycemia episode yesterday that i am still shaken/miserable of. Fatigue and too tired to focus on things a lot of times/irritability. Hopefully things improve before the therapy starts again - Doctor has been 4 days in Athens to treat post-therapy patients and my therapies start again at Monday.
EDIT short reminder: dont do the prostrate massage yourself ever. EVER. pathogen spreading after bad massage therapy is one thing but scarring prostrate tissue or bursting something is another thing.
The thing that concerns me after reading all of those posts, is that not one person mentioned low libido as a symptome except the guy who I can only assume is Solonjk…
My guess is that people with the terrible pains associated with most hard-to-treat chronic prostatitis (also called chronic pelvic pain syndrome), whom posted there after seeing Georgiadis, while their condition was at their worst, arent anymore concerned about libido when they have those excrutiating pains down there that make sex a chore anyway.
They maybe had experienced the early stage of PFS/CP (ED and libido problems, without pain) but didnt attribute it to prostatitis, until the pains came in and lead them to deperately travel the world to seek prostatitis treatment, with pain reduction as a primary objective.
Solonjk mentions libido because he has made the link between PFS and CP since the beginning and thus is able to put all the symptoms in his frame of reference for progress checking.
Just a guess off course
Spstriken, making silly bets about the health and well being of fellow posters is utterly rediculous and will only induce a flaming war. We’re all on the same side here, try not to rub it in to those who tried to get better, if it doesn’t work.
I’m going to Greece. It’s all booked in for me and yes, now I’m nervous. But if the treatment and all that money doesn’t yeild a result, the last thing I and others in my position need is someone having some kind of sick enjoyment out of the fact that the treatment didn’t work. Saying “I told you so” is not helping anyone.
Have your opinon sure, but lets keep it constructive yea?
Well actually you’re 100% right, I can testimony on this
When you have huge pelvic pain, libido is secondary.
Plus, obviously someone who gets dirty aches each time he tries to masturbate/ have sex will not be as interested an it as he normally would be with no pain.
Solonjk’s erratic behavior is somewhat alarming considering that he has been updating us consistently throughout his treatment in Greece but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the treatment is a complete write off or that it hasn’t worked for him. Hopefully he comes back at some point, it would be very strange if he didn’t considering he has been suffering for so long.
I am on the fence about this treatment, which is exactly why i am waiting until 5-6 people come back with reports. Even then it’s unlikely that i will be able to ever afford full treatment.
Once again, best of luck to all the guys that are going out there in the coming months. I think it’s worth cutting out alcohol, sugar and refined grains altogether while your over there. Take a high quality fish oil to reduce inflammation too.
TBH I’m bloody disappointed in the lack of feedback we’ve been getting from the other guys who are currently over there. Why is it so hard to report back? So many guys, including myself, are hanging on single update on this thread. You guys owe it to the whole cause to give honest and accurate reports. I know that’s what i would be doing. If/when i go over i’ll be keeping a blog for all to see.
Mens, please chill. I will be there next week and Im still undecided wether I will take my laptop with me or not (security and weight concerns)
Maybe wifi isnt present in every one of the cheapest hotels in Kos.
Also I think that gefin, noniman etc whom are at the beginning of treatment probably dont have much positive things to say yet, while they also endure tremendous pain daily from the intense massages, along with probable side effects from the antibiotics, and maybe also worsening of their symptoms due to the pathogens getting released by the massages (until they get effectively eradicated by the abx). And they cant even chill at the beach to relax as they have increased photosensitivity due to quinolones.
I for one perfectly understand that they arent updating us daily for the moment.
