Prostatitis treatment as a novel insight into Finasteride related problems

solonjk · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

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JG1 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

Guys,

I’ve done the trans rectal ultra sound. The doctor said :

no major problems
a prostate of 12 cc
when he put the thing in my rectum it was painful, so he declared it may be a prostatitis (???)
he detected that the aspect of my prostate was a little bit strange, and he made the assumption it was Hyperaemia

The picture of the TRUS is here : imageshack.us/f/695/photo003bx.jpg/

I’m a bit confused, I thought it would tell more than this, as I have a enormous pain in the pelvis.
Now, I will send the picture to the greek doctor.
And see another urologist in France, the one who examinated blasé.

venceremos · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

For the lazy ones, here is in plain english a nice summary of the reasons why serrapeptase (and to a less extent other proteolytic enzymes such as bromelain) may be very benificial for our condition and an excellent adjuvant to Dr G therapy if you decide to do it
(from a lyme disease blog)

lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/new-hope-for-most-severe-chronic-cases-of-lyme-disease-part-three/

“Serrapeptidase”, better known as “serrapeptase”, is best known for its ability to relieve pain from inflammation, reduce inflammation, and destroying pathogens. It is suggested to be able to kill Lyme bacteria, a wide variety of fungus (another tool in the fight against Candida) and unfriendly bacteria.

This means this enzyme through it’s natural action in our bodies can greatly strengthen the immune system. This enzyme is naturally processed commercially today through fermentation, and was first discovered in the silkworm intestine.

In the past, it has been known primarily for it’s ability to relieve pain – especially pain from inflammation, anti-inflammatory properties.

Serrapeptase reduces inflammation in three ways:

Breaks down the insoluble protein by-products of blood coagulation known as fibrin. Fibrin develops from soluable protein which clots together to form a mesh when you are wounded. Fibrin can cause many health problems in certain health problems and diseases;
2. Thins the fluids formed from inflammation or injury and facilitates their drainage which speeds the tissue repair process.

Serrapeptase alleviates pain by inhibiting the release of specific pain-inducing amines known as bradykinin (according to Wikipedia, bradykinin is a nonapeptide or group of proteins consisting of nine amino acids), that cause blood vessels to enlarge (dilate), and therefore causes blood pressure to lower… The cardiovascular effects of the serrapeptase are due to the remarkable ability to break down dead or damaged tissue without harming living tissue. Atherosclerotic plaques can be slowly dissolved without harming the inside of the arteries.

Serrapeptase is also known for its ability to destroy harmful pathogens and unfriendly bacteria. This helps to greatky strengthen our immune system and free it up to fight more serious infections (such as Lyme disease.)

Surprisingly it has been known for over a decade that serrapeptase works to break apart and/or dissolve biofilms.

The wonderful collision of earlier research with the frantic search for a cure for the many modern chronic illnesses (such as Chronic Neurological Lyme disease, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Epstein Barr, Autism, MS to name just a few) and auto-immune diseases (such as HIV, Celiac disease and Diabetes 1 to name a few) has resulted in the discovery of serrapeptase inhibiting and destroying biofilm.

Bacteria, as we have discussed in many blog posts, often follow a process called biofilm formation which results in virtually impenetrable fortresses for the bacteria to multiply and thrive growing steadily and in extended chronic infections causing the immune system to atack our most weakened and fragile organs and/or central nervous system making the disease incredibly painful and resistant to any anti-micrbial, anti-bacterial or anti-viral agents – pharmacological or organic in nature.

Throughout medical research into various means of inhibiting or destroying these biofilms, great breakthroughs have occurred – especially in the last few years.

One study from top Italian scientists suggest that “proteolytic enzymes” (see definition below) could significantly enhance the activities of antibiotics (pharmacological or organic) against biofilms by revealing the infectious colonies as the biofilms are destroyed, and actually inhibit the invading bacteria or virus from developing any new biofilm “hide-outs.”

If the body were always capable of producing adequate proteolytic enzymes, it is possible that cancer would not develop. In theory, cancer cells have a type of protein coating that is destroyed by these proteolytic enzymes. When this protein is destroyed, the body’s white cells are able to attack the cancer cells and destroy them.

The following part is very interesting if you replace “lyme” with “prostatitis” :

[b]This is also true of the protein coverings that enable Lyme disease to successfully evade our immune system and busily creating these strongholds – sometimes for years without any symptoms – and the WHAM! You encounter exceptional stress and everything shuts down. For “Lymies” we call that the “crash”. For those fortunate souls who discover their Lyme infection immediately, the infection is killed before the biofilms can be constructed.

Unfortunately, for those who think they have successfully eradicated a new infection of Lyme, it is not uncommon for a full-blown infection to flare up months or years later due to stree or extreme physical stress and find that a few spirochetes slipped into the central nervous system and evaded the antibiotic treatment.

Lymes disease can lie “dormant” for decades without showing more than a few aches and pains here and there…creating massive biofilm colonies while the unsuspecting victim pops ibuprofen for a sore joint or stiff neck[/b].

EDIT
Chronic Prostatitis and biofilms :
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19696557

“Biofilms in chronic bacterial prostatitis (NIH-II) and in prostatic calcifications”
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1574-695X.2010.00659.x/abstract

Nice vulgarisation article on biofilms
prostatitis.org/pdf/biofilms.pdf

venceremos · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

JG, it seems your uro thought that the symptoms you described (and the pain you got from insertion of the apparatus) was enough to diagnose a prostatitis (he still prescribed the abx didnt he?) but he failed to detect all the inflammatory loci by TRUS… Maybe due to lack of experience? Dr G said that he cant trust diagnosis made by other uros based on TRUS because most of them fail to see the inflammation, and he adds that this is based on his 20 yrs experience, getting patients from many diffrerent uros in the world. You story seems to corroborate his observations (I mean , again, you uro DID diagnose the prostatitis based on symptoms BUT FAILED to SEE it with the TRUS).
It will be interesting to see if blasé’s uro will be able to see things that uro failed to see. Then see what Georgiadis has to say about all this when HE finally examines you personally.

EDIT
Could hyperaemia be a reaction to some of the inflammatory processes? And then “mask” the inflamation itself on the TRUS??
From wikipedia:
“Reactive hyperaemia often occurs as a consequence of Raynaud’s phenomenon, where the vasospasm in the vasculature leads to ischaemia and necrosis of tissue and thus a subsequent increase in blood flow to remove the waste products and clear up cell debris.”

EDIT2
roadmind.com/Volume-01-Diseases-of-the-Uropoietic-System/Hyperaemia-or-Heperemia-of.html

HYPERAEMIA OR HEPEREMIA OF THE PROSTATE.

The line of demarcation between prostatic hyperaemia, active or passive, and true inflammation is often rather indefinite. From a pathological, and more especially from a clinical, standpoint, there are, nevertheless, many cases of prostatic disease which fall rather under the head of active or passive hyperaemia than of actual inflam mation. That conditions of hyperaemia predispose to, and are likely to terminate in, true inflammation, is well understood even by the tyro in medicine. Especially is this true of prostatic diseases involv ing local disturbances of circulation. This proposition is, therefore, taken for granted as a preliminary to the discussion of prostatic In perhaps the majority of cases of acute prostatic dis ease which fall under the observation of the practitioner, the diag nosis of prostatitis, acute or chronic, is made and allowed to pass without question. That no harm results therefrom in the majority of cases is simply due to the fact that the principles of treatment are essentially the same in both conditions. In some cases, however, there is little doubt that a true appreciation of the conditions pres ent would be of direct benefit to the patient, as in certain cases of passive congestion from venous obstruction. Measures calculated to relieve passive hyperemia are likely to prevent the development of true inflammation.

Active prostatic has its point of departure, as a rule, in disturbance either of the sexual function, or of the physiological act of micturition. The prostate is, from time to time, the seat of physi ological hyperaemia, as is true of all glandular organs. This attends sexual excitement, however such excitement may be produced. Under normal conditions the circulation resumes its normal status as soon as the source of excitement has been removed. The return to its nor mal circulatory condition is still more rapid when the sexual function has been performed in a normal manner. Prolonged excitement with out gratification is perhaps the most prolific source of prostatic hyperaemia. Frequent masturbation and sexual excess will also pro duce marked circulatory excitement of a more or less permanent character. The periods of rest between the acts of ejaculation are so short that the circulation has no time to regain its normal equilibrium. Sexual excess and masturbation are still more potent factors in the production of pathological hyperaemia when associated with erotic mentality, alcohol and other elements of high living, or the gouty and rheumatic diathesis. If the causes of hyperemia be long continued, subacute or chronic inflammation will probably supervene.

The relation of sexual excitement to the production of morbid con ditions of the prostate should receive the greatest consideration. It should be understood that physical continence may be associated, so to speak, with mental incontinence, with resulting prostatic hyperaemia which may give rise to both functional and organic changes in the affected part. As will be seen in a subsequent chap ter, it is the author’s conviction that prostatic from fre quently repeated and prolonged sexual excitement is an important factor in the etiology of prostatic hypertrophy. The importance of avoiding all sources of sexual excitation, both mental and physical, cannot be too strongly insisted upon in the management of all dis eases affecting the prostate and neck of the bladder.

A greater or less degree of prostatic hyperemia is probably an almost constant concomitant of urethral and bladder disease, whether acute or chronic, and is due in these cases not only to an inflamma tion of vesico-urethral mucous membrane rer se, but also to the frequent acts of micturition necessitated by irritation of the vesical neck. The termination of the act of micturition is characterized by reflex spasm of the cut-off muscle which is greatly exaggerated in the presence of hypeiwstbesia of the posterior urethra incidental to in flammation or reflex irritation of this structure. So vigorous is the 'spasmodic contraction of the muscles constituting the physiological cut-off that actual traumatism of the prostate results. There is a marked disturbance of the circulation and not only an active_hyperm mia, but a lessened power of resistance of both glandular and mus cular structure to sources of infection.

Irritative and inflammatory affections of the lower bowel produce reflex irritation of the vesical neck with associated hyperemia of the prostate. The hyperemia and spasm may be so severe that reten tion of urine results. This is observed after operations about this part and in inflamed hemorrhoids. Rectal tenesmus, as seen in cer tain cases of dysentery and acute proctitis, is apt to produce some what similar conditions affecting the prostate and vesical neck. In cases of chronic disease of the lower bowel, such as polypi, stricture, tumors,’ and particularly hemorrhoids, passive congestion of the prostate results from obstruction to the venous circulation. The author has observed well-marked enlargement of the prostate asso ciated with stricture of the rectum and hemorrhoids, and has seen the prostatic disturbance completely disappear after an operation on the lower bowel. Constipation, excessive horseback riding, and the modern exercise of bicycle riding, are efficient causes of prostatic hyperemia in some cases.

Hyperemia of the prostate exists in all cases of strangury pro duced by drugs. Cantharides, turpentine, and, it is said, the vari ous balsamic preparations may produce this condition. Prostatic hyperemia rarely, if ever, goes on to acute inflammation idiopathi cally. Instrumental interference with associated trauma and sepsis, or a mixed infection from posterior urethritis, is usually necessary to precipitate acute inflammation. Obstructive affections of the urethra are likely to produce more or less marked prostatic hyperamnia. Urethral strictures of small calibre are usually associated with more or less marked engorgement of the prostate. Large-calibred penile strictures may produce prostatic hyperemia reflexly, even where there is no appreciable obstruction to the passage of urine. The slightest degree of coarctation in the bulbo-membranous region is quite likely, from the close association of the nervous and vascular supply of the affected part with that of the prostate, to produce circulatory distur bance in the latter structure.

Whether or not chronic hyperemia of the prostate may be the foundation of hypertrophy of the organ in after-life has been the subject of much difference of opinion. The author inclines to the affirmative, as will hereafter appear.

Hyperemia of the prostate may become chronic. Under such circumstances it is usually of a passive character, and is generally associated with constipation and ungratified sexual desire. Sexual excitement is the most important factor in its production, and it is especially likely to exist in masturbators. This form of chronic hyperaemia is characterized by the escape of prostatic fluid at various times, and is usually supposed by the patient to be spermatorrhcea, while to the profession at large most cases are classified as prostator rhcea. The congestion of the affected organ brings about hyperse cretion, and in all probability a relaxed condition of the mouths of the prostatic ducts. The condition might be classified as prostatic catarrh were it not for the quite general association of this term with true inflammation. Follicular prostatitis as described by most authors implies this result of hypersecretion, and appears to the present writer to be a misnomer.

The principal disturbances from this form of prostatic disease are of a psychical rather than physical character.

Read this too, from a chinese prostatitis specialist, broken english and dubious source but still interesting, mention hyperaemia (due to ungratified sexual pleasure or “bumps from seat of truck driver” ) as a CAUSE of abacterial prostatitis (but says that if you have pains in testes, urethrea or anywhere else it is bacterial and not abacterial)
prostatitis1.org/consult.htm

JG1 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

vinceremos,
big thanks for your input.

In fact the guy who made the TRUS was not an uro. He was just a doctor and was operating all kinds of ultra sounds.
He did admit it may be prostatitis, but he said so only because the thing he put in my ass was painful. But wait, he put it with no that much fluid to ease, so you know it was like “se faire enc*** à sec” so of course it was painful !

However :
I just got blasé by the phone. He told me 2 intersting things

My ultrasound was performed at 0.9 khz wherehas the one he got was at about 28 hz ! It does not show the sames things.
For me, the trans rectal ultrasound lasted about 30 secondes, where blasé told me it was many longer with his uro.

All this make me think I really need to see someone else, and it will be blasé’s uro.

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

I believe that serrapeptase is also used to reduce scar tissue and swelling for breast augmentation and in surgery in general.

Tpenf · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

Gefinauser has Dr G siad you have a staph issue also? how are things with you?

Sorry if this has already been covered

Cheers

solonjk · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

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Lincoln28 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

I discussed a loan with my credit Union today and they asked me what the loan was for. I explained the jist of my situation and they said they need a doctors cert. How much of a pain is that when none of the docs here have a notion about prostatitis!!! Damn!!!

venceremos · September 26, 2019, 7:02am

Well personally Im lucky enough not to have used antibiotics that much since fin (nothing stronger than amoxcicillin for sinusitis and other minor stuff, once though they gave me some other IV abx at the ER for my pneumonia but cant remember what). So I hope that the regular abx that Dr G uses first will work on my pathogens.
But I indeed have messed a little with hormones : a 7weeks steroid cycle (HDrol, a prohormone similar to turinabol) folowd by a “PCT” of HCG plus aromasin , then clomid and nolva (springled with a little aromasin towards the end). This has made me feel better, but definitely has done something bad regarding my inflammation down there as I developped epididimitis and pelvic pains that I NEVER had before (much like what happened to you am I right solonjk?). Ironically Im still kind of happy that this happened since this now make me absolutely convinced that I do have a prostatitis and not some other not figured out form of PFS, but you are scaring me when you say that what I have done may have decreased my chances of getting cured by Dr G in 4weeks… Im wont be able to afford 2months of therapy as you are currently doing.

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

Solon, glad that your morale has bounced back and that your treatment appears to be on track.

I’m getting the impression that a patient can do 20 to 30 therapies, be clear of infection and inflammation, but have to wait a month or longer to see symptomatic relief (i.e. erections return). Is this so? Does such a patient continue to take antibiotics in this time away from the doctor? And typically, how often must they return in these types of situations? (I’m trying to best plan for a potentially longer visit).

Also, when you are chatting with the patients (PFS or otherwise) in the clinic who report results from Dr. G’s treatment—are these guys a few weeks into treatment? Or are they there for maintenance or follow-up a month or two later? Can you clarify some realistic time lines for recovery? Thanks!

daveydc82 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

If this doctor is as good as he reads out to be, I’ll gladly plop down the dough to fly over to Greece from the U.S. I’m a little bit nervous about the comment above because I have not yet seen a urologist, but am scheduled to see one in exactly two weeks. I’ve been consulting with Dr. Irwig for the last year because I happen to work a half mile away from the GW campus and will be seeing the uro in the same medical faculty practice, and apparently they’re all familiar with Irwig’s study.

To quickly paraphrase my member story:

Took Propecia for 4 years, Dutas for a few months, Propecia again for a few months
Experienced minimal sides while on the drug – no sexual sides at all
After quitting cold turkey I slowly developed erectile dysfunction where Cialis worked great at first and now approximately a year later, it hardly does a thing

If indeed I am diagnosed with prostatitis, I don’t want to screw myself over with an antibiotics regimen alone and basically make it a challenge for another urologist (such as Georgiadis) to treat the condition.

What should I do? Is it plausible to refuse treatment and simply hold out for a urologist experienced in both antibiotics and massage therapy?

Thanks

prop · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

solon can u provide a new thread with people actually treated by georgiadis?

u can ask to lock it by mew and maybe
only you and the others only have access
to update

this thread is too big to search and many questions r repeated

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

TRANSRECTAL ULTRASONOGRAPHY
in patients with
CHRONIC PROSTATITIS SYNDROME

image examples -
prostatitis.org/tarf/trusatls.htm

Look at these captioned TRUS scans:
prostatitis.org/tarf/tprch.htm

One interesting excerpt:

Another site with images:
ultrasound-images.com/prostate.htm

solonjk · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

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Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

Thanks for the info Solon. I understand that individual cases vary. I’m only wondering what some potential timelines are for those harder-to-treat cases.

I, too, have done TRT. From late 2009 to late 2010. And further dabbled with medicines in 20011 (Clomid, Testim, Cabergoline, Bupropion, Armour, Nystatin, Diflucan) and I do have a history of antibiotic use (which I outlined for the doc to review). I’m medicine free now for a month and a half +.

So I’m just trying to prepare trip logistics / funds for a worst-case scenario, where maybe I have to stay with the doctor longer.

And I’m also wondering if antibiotics are issued to patients even after their massage treatments are over.

Thanks again.

Lincoln28 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

I havent had any strong antibiotics…and absolutely NO hormonal treatment.

Does this mean he would definitely not expect my treatment to last longer than 30 days?

daveydc82 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

I sent Dr. Georgiadis an e-mail and he responded saying that a 4 week treatment period is typical. I have also not been on antibios or hormone therapy and made that clear in my email.

JG1 · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

I just sent a mail to Dr Georgiadis, so as to know schedule possibilities and his opinion on my TRUS.

ChrisC · May 25, 2018, 6:43am

Ditto