Yes!! I had so many things going haywire during the crash: hives, cold sore (first time)/fever, canker sores, fungus, itchiness, etc. I really think finasteride does a number on the immune system, unsure how. Maybe for some, it never calms down.
Thanks for this info. The ache down there is getting really annoying lately. I’ll bet my T is rising during this period of abstention from 100 supplements and meds and causing this. Who knows.
I would think that you HAVE to wear condoms until you know you are 100% clean, otherwise, you would be potentially infecting your girlfriend and re-infecting yourself, right?
Shit man, i couldn’t dream of using a condom right now. Even with cialis, I would fumble and lose my hard-on…that’s an accomplishment on your part…
Does the doctor have a protocol or suggested panel to test women for STDs after you are clean so that one never falls back into this mess? I imagine girls are easier to culture? I hope this is the cure, and if so, I’m afraid to touch any of the past girls I’ve been with, afraid to leave the house w/o a lab order, lol.
simply an FYI, here is a place that does the massages in the US
biotherapy-clinic.com/prostatic_massage.html
biotherapy-clinic.com/prices.html
even though it isnt the greek doctor, perhaps it would be interesting to see if they could milk the prostate to have the fluid tested for pathogens (as that seems to be an issue with many doctors)
I’m sure the older dudes using 5mg attribute any problems from propecia to normal aging or prostate damage rather than the drug itself.
Check out this old guy – he’s having problems, seeking answers, and being misled.
To agree with mew - definitely get your samples in for Irwig’s study. If for some reason the prostate is not the cause, he is our best bet in moving forward in finding the actual cause.
I concur with that notion…Are you saying that older men who took 5mg Finasteride, wouldn’t make the connection as much because they are in their 50s and 60s and would attribute the ED/low libido to age rather then finasteride? However they have prostate trouble as it is, so I think Fin could in rare instances aggravate the prostate further, as in our case…
Toadstool makes a good point: these old guys taking 5mg (and higher!) of proscar have demonstrated prostate issues prior to taking the drug.
Not to mention that we don’t know what Flomax does, nor do we know if this patient had E.D. or if he discontinued finasteride (or flomax) and if his symptoms continued or resolved.
Regardless, I think it’s conceivable that old guys (and young ones alike) don’t connect their issues to finasteride. And yes, old guys would be more prone to writing it off to age. But some (or a lot) would be asking for Viagra—so wouldn’t some make the finasteride connection? Wouldn’t some of their doctors look at what medicines were recently prescribed? Especially if a urologist prescribed these meds? We see it with all sorts of other drugs like Lipitor (memory loss, muscle weakness) with other “old man” drugs (blood pressure meds & E.D.) Guys do notice, they don’t all just stop wanting to fuck. But ultimately, we just don’t know what % report it (whatever “it” is), what % make the connection…what % quit…and what % see side effects resolve.
I think that no matter what, finasteride acts as some sort of catalyst or accelerator. I’ve always believed there’s a connection, but the question has always been what is the predisposing factor(s) that separate us unfortunate ones.
Exactly what happened to me. These similarities are crazy.
I’m pretty much convinced in my case that it’s a fungal issue (the dermatitis).
Everytime I talked about it to docs or showed it to them (never had biopsy done though) they prescribed antifungals. Most of them barely worked, only one seemed to do the trick (“fonx”, oxiconazole), but it always came back eventually. Actually my balls ALWAYS stayed reddish and sometimes the infection would spread to the penis, and that’s when I would seek treatment.
Reason I’m convinced it’s fungal is that I recently started to chelate mercury with DMSA while my penis was “clear” (only the balls were touched) and the dermatitis immediately flared up and spread the the penis all the way to the tip (balanitis). And then I googled “DMSA candida” and it appeared that DMSA “feeds” candida and MANY people have had candida flare up while chelating with DMSA. (which is ironic because candida is often the primary reason for the mercury chelation, as it is said that candida will always come back until you get rid of mercury in your system. Google “mercury candida”)
Just noticed this in the link posted by golf in his last post (“biotherapy clinic”)
I realize this is not exactly a scientific source, but it somehow explains the link between the prostate and ALL the other hormones we have trouble with. Sexual, adrenal, thyroid, ALL of them.
Another french guy here, Jro, posted that his LHRH stimulation test showed insufficient LH response to LHRH. Just sayin’.
EDIT2 and of course, besides this “prostate–>pituitary–>all hormonal glands” axis perturbance, I beleive there is also the direct effect of prostate inflammation on the nearby genitals and particularly testicles, bringing them to slowly atrophy and produce less T over time - rendering any HPTA restart protocol (-or PCT- using HCG, Clomid or other SERMs, AIs, or triptorelin) unable to produce lasting results, as the inflammation will hold your gonads back and bring them to atrophy again upon cessation of the protocol (this has happened to me, Solonjk, and many others)
EDIT1
I’m really getting more and more convinced that prostatitis could be the explanation for EVERYONE here. I shall see for myself when I visit Dr G.
So far it is the only theory that brings plausible explanation to ALL of the symptoms that we have. Depressed immune system, messed up hormones, genital discomfort and tissue change, ED, you name it.
I have never really crashed but have been slowly getting worse over the years. But I have only taken fin for a few days. I beleive the crash thing occurs with those that have taken fin for a prolonged period of time. Starving your prostatic cells of DHT for so long, and then brutally reintroducing DHT into the system, caused the inflammation/infection to intensify brutally. The “sides” that we suffer DURING fin use are directly due to fin itself and 5AR inhibition (lack of androgenicity), but the ones that appear after cessation (and the crash), are due to the aggravated prostatitis. Without a preexisting prostatitis I beleive that we should all suffer sides during fin use, but our systems should naturally find back their natural androgenicity some time after cessation (personnaly I have kept losing hair and growing a stong beard post fin anyway).
So I now firmly beleive that fin was just the trigger, at least for those that have used it for less than a year or so. Something else might be going on with those that have been on it for years (like the androgen receptor mutation theory), but I’m really not sure.
From what ive been told it’s either a 50 min flight that you should book in advance or you may miss out or risk paying a fortune for at the last minute (like any other flight).
Or there’s a ferry which is a 16 hour ride over night. I wasn’t too keen on that after a 22hr flight.
Will we have a few people finished treatment by August?
I think your general theory has merit. But as someone who took fin for 8+ years, I sure hope it’s not a mutation. I have several family members who took it for a while (although not as long) and did not experience any issues (at 1.25mg/male pattern baldness and higher than 5mg/BPH doses). I convinced them to discontinue the medicine, and I will never put it in myself again; I see no good that can come from messing with your hormones. But I do suspect some other culprit, and that may (hopefully) turn out to be prostatitis.
Well we should give credit to whom credit is due, that theory is not mine, let us all remember that Solonjk is the one that has introduced it here, and he’s got it from Dr Pavlos Georgiadis. We shall see in the near future if we should erect a monument in their name or not.
EDIT
@UK20
Me (if the prostatitis is indeed diagnosed) and blasé (already confirmed in France) should be done by august 10th or so, I beleive Solonjk, Gefinauser and Poga will be done earlyer than that.
So does the doc supply/advise patients to take probiotics daily or nightly? Or wait until after therapy? I was planning on packing some w/ me. Along with my Borat bikini-thong.
I’ve previously heard contradictory things regarding antibiotics and probiotics. Some suggest you ought to take them together, others say after the antibiotics, because they oppose each other. Does anybody concretely know?
I will ask him when Im there, but I will be packing probiotics (culturelle and jarro-dophilus) and antifungals, both pharmaceutical (lamisil, diflucan, sporanox, some topical creams) and natural (NOW candida clear).
Like I told you in PM I wont touch the pharm antifungals until I talk about it to Dr G (dont want to create resistant strains of candida in my prostate if it proves pointless to use these without massages on a calcified prostate).
I also will be packing a few supplements recommended while taking fluoroquinolones in this thread
viewtopic.php?p=31243#p31243
mainly magnesium, NAC, other liver support stuff, a good multi, and antioxydants
My case is identical to yours. I took Fin for five days. No big crash, just gradual decline. Hormone tests come back normal. Still losing hair, strong facial hair etc.
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LOL. Ok dont update on your hard ons, but can you give some update on the patients that you have met in his office. any Propecia cases? Also, have you ever asked the doc or the other patients about side effects of such strong antibiotics? any of his ex-patients suffered those?