Prostatitis treatment as a novel insight into Finasteride related problems

General Discussion
#621

Multiple docs have told me that I have normal Testosterone, normal Thyroid values, that finasteride was FDA approved and only 2% had side effects which went away with discontinuation of the drug. Out of 6 urologists I’ve been to, only 2 performed DREs. Very interesting.

But something IS wrong down there when you’re in pain/discomfort, can’t ejaculate properly, can’t have sex. And yes, he has publications, I’ve posted this earlier in the thread: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=georgiadis%20p

I don’t care what he considers to be the original spark (although he seems to believe that finasteride escalates the situation—that’s pretty relevant/important/significant/damning right there) if he proves to be able to cure it. I still don’t know if this is the main culprit for most of us, or for myself, but he’s got my attention. And it certainly doesn’t seem that much of a stretch to focus on the organ most targeted by finasteride {the prostate!}. Many others have embarked on far more experimental drug therapies, most often w/o the direct supervision of a doctor using black market pharmaceuticals. There doesn’t seem to be as much controversy over their methods. Furthermore, regardless of his confident (arrogant?) claims, he is not the only doctor to claim that chronic prostatitis (which is labeled abacterial prostatitis in the U.S.) stems from bacteria or offer some form of therapy (be it direct injections to the prostate or complementary massage) with antibiotics to treat such a deep-rooted bacteria. There is an Arizona-based prostatitis center, Dr. Guercino in Italy, Dr. Lu and another center in China, Dr. Feliciano / The Filipino Center (on which the AZ method is based), and Dr. Toth in NY. All connect prostatitis with E.D., ejaculatory disorders, pain/discomfort, urinary symptoms, etc. Wouldn’t be the first time that the conventional/accepted medical paradigm would turn out to be wrong.

I agree with your skepticism/cynicism here. The surgeon always tells you that surgery is required. The hormonal doctor tells you that hormonal therapy is necessary. The prostatitis guy will tend to suggest that you have prostatitis. But it doesn’t mean that you don’t!

I’m pretty sure all anyone cares about is results. If the doctor resolves the issues of a PFSer or two, who cares what other uros say. It does remain to be see, I know…

You must have all the confidence in the world in that urologist and his ultrasound. Can you really fault people who took a medicine that targeted their prostate and who present with pain/discomfort, urinary issues, ejaculatory issues, stinging sensations, discolored semen for exploring this angle? Has he promised anything that all the other top PFS docs haven’t?

#622

Mew, just read your new post. All valid points, and I really don’t want to spar, I know you’re looking out for folks, I know it’s easy to let desperation cloud one’s thinking. But some people are fed up with the conventional medical viewpoint and are willing to explore a different avenue. It’s their money. I’m sure they’ve deliberated thoroughly, I’m sure they know it’s a risk, a calculated risk. Instead of reiterating the talking points on the ills of finasteride (we get it; none of us is taking the drug or suggesting anyone take it), let’s allow (and encourage) those making the trip over there to report back in earnest w/o having them sift through scores of argumentative posts. I’m picturing them sincerely wanting to update us, answer questions that people have posted, all while in crowded internet cafes, and having to sift through repetitive, bickering posts. Let’s just let’m report back. We’re all waiting in anticipation.

#623

Mew, again you put far too much faith in mainstream western medicine. You’re still not thinking outside the box and you’re just not “getting it”.

You still want to put all of your eggs in one basket. The same basket that got us into this mess in the first place. So anything outside of a treatment backed by a scientific peice of paper must be a waste of time or a scam etc… Are you aware that medicine is CONSTANTLY evolving? You seem to fail to grasp this simple concept. Medicine evolves with the likes of scientists, sure but also doctors like this Dr in Greece and all other docs who dare to do things a little differntly but still within the laws of their country. A lot of new medical discoveries happen outside of the lab and happen purely by accident. Take Finasteride. It was only prescribed to treat hairloss after prostate patients noticed it was stopping their male pattern baldness. So is it fair to say that by prescribing Finasteride the Doc in Greece noticed some similarities in the prostate in those who suffered side effects and he then manged to cure those side effects. HE’S GOT MY ATTENTION!!

Also he has worked on this protocol for 20 years. Of course he’s not going to publish it all over the internet for all the Mews out there to peruse over. And this is another vital thing you fail to understand. The majority of the most cutting edge medicine is not yet available on the internet for all to see. The majority of what I have learned is straight from doctors mouths who are WELL RESPECTED doctors with a LOT OF CREDENTIALS who are also doctors for high power people and celebrities with a lot of money. You get what you pay for.

It’s easy to sit back and pick out the bad points of everything. I actaully think it’s highly arrogent of you to sit there behind your computer moniter with no medical credentials whatsoever and question a Urologist you hardly know anything about, who’s been in the game for 20 years. The truth is, you probably don’t DESERVE to know what his protocole is or his reasoning behind why he says he can fix PFS because you are not a medical doctor and would probably be totally lost trying understand his 20 years worth of knowledge. It takes a lot more balls to try new things and investigate options and keep an open mind than it does to sit back and have pot shots at a guy who’s trying to help us.

I want to give a big pat on the back for everyone stepping up and going over there to investigate this and know that if it fails, we did everything we could instead of sitting on our hands waiting for the “experts” who got us into this mess fix us. Cause you should realize by now that it aint gonna happen any time soon.

#624

It wouldn’t be in the general population! Hence why the MAJORITY of people who use finasteride appear to have no ill effects despite all the many illustrated pathways of the drug’s destruction. Doesn’t this make you wonder just a liiiiitle bit?

I mean, how many documented cases of PFS are there? Versus how many men on finasteride at large? And when you think of older men who take the drug and don’t have problems (at 5MG doses!), it could be that they don’t have internet access to participate in this forum (but they still register complaints regarding Lipitor, for example); it could be that they’re embarrassed to report sexual side effects (but Viagra sales are pretty solid, right?). Or it could be that they are less sexually active/promiscuous, and thus less likely to contract an infection. Not that the infection necessarily has to come from promiscuity (I would imagine dating a girl who has a urinary tract infection, or having sex with a girlfriend while she’s on her period, other things can increase the likelihood of a bacterial infection along w/ one’s general state of health or immune health–and perhaps one of finasteride’s most insidious paths of action IS the suppression of the immune system).

Why is it so crazy, that a small % of men might contract some bacteria in their urogenital system that get absolutely out of control, ESPECIALLY under the effect of a POWERFUL drug like finasteride? And why does this absolve Merck (for those preoccupied with the legal side) from culpability when they did not provide informed consent that their product COULD lead to sexual (and other) side effects that lingered on after discontinuation as reported for YEARS? They didn’t follow men to see what happened with the prolonged use of a 5AR inhibitor, they didn’t attempt to find a way to screen for potential causes of ill health, they just stonewalled, and denied, denied, denied.
[Size=4]
*and sorry if I’m being hypocritical here by posting again after trying to calm the debate, but I felt like I had to make this point. What’s more likely, given that most men (as far as we know) don’t seem to be radically/permanently affected by finasteride use? That the tiny % of us with ongoing issues are the ONLY ones crippled by all the terrible, documented deleterious mechanisms of action of finasteride which most people appear to be able to compensate for? Or that some men, a tiny % get an infection RIGHT at the site of the crime, probably made worse by a prostate-targeting drug? Nobody can answer this question, but consider it…[/size]

#625

Probably genetic predisposition – ie, our bodies simply cannot handle 5AR being inhibited for whatever reason, hormonally or otherwise.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1407

#626

i was diagonosed with prostatitis when i had my crash by my uro and had all the symptoms and i still do have some symptoms so there is definately a relation with pfs and prostatitis and i believe our bodies should recover naturally but maybe due to an infection stopping it

#627

Yes, I’d like to know this too. Can you not come home for 2 weeks in this period?

#628

There are some big red flags here, i just hope for the guys who think this is the cure right now that they won’t mean much eventually because it will hurt otherwise. Personally i am just waiting to see how the 6 people visiting the doctor feel after treatment.

#629

The massages are daily, so he can’t go anywhere. This is how it was explained to me.

#630

@Mens Rea ChrisC, it’s 15 days of THREE antibiotics and prostrate massages. I start with a massage once a day and when it gets better we do two times a day. plan so far. I don’t know about how long the treatment goes on really, propably to a point when there is zero iflammation and microbes left. You want to ensure this, do 2 treatments a day. To my understanding you can’t do more than this? I’m not sure.

@Frustrated, to my understanding/if i recall right he couldn’t tell? so i figured we get to know that once the antibiotics start and we see how the mibrobes react to them (theres lot of different types and they all react differently, also changing genetic data within itself to become resistant so there has to be patience and dynamic use of antibiotics. you heard me guys, dont just pour in antibiotics or do finger pressure yourself! jesus christ especially believe the latter part, please take my word on that.)

@joetz, no, never had done PSA test. i didnt even know it could be prostratis before this topic and i wanted georgiadis to do it and analyze (he did, he will).

im gonna ask for the friggin ranges for prostrate size for different ages, im really curious what shoul be CONSIDER normal at least. that won’t change that the ultrasound along with urine test plus test finger pressure test, checking the size/health of groinal area and interviewing is the final answer to that matter.

also avoid ANY spicy food and alcohol plus sugar mates! even slightly spicy causes inflammation and alcohol causes inflammation. like solonjk said sugar feeds staph and you really don’t want that. so forget your gastronomY/culinary plans if yer coming lol.

he said after a moment of consideration that diary products are “okay”, i need to ask him later about what there is to it.

Ugh, ill post to the longer questions when my laptop is recharged. hold your horses…
and don’t attack Mew too aggressively, he’s just being critical and that is all. Who knows why WE get escalated prostatis from this if that is really the case. Heredity, genetics? I’m not sure if thing would escalate with other prostatis people and im not sure if even Georgiadis can make that kind of conclusion from little correspondence. If people get help from this then great, let’s hope things go well for us here in Kos. I don’t believe that changes too much of the class-action suit, i’m still being cheated by Merck with false studies that this should be completely safe. you cant blame an issue that is not known well like AT ALL or that it can’t be proven that its a genetic disposition for eg. prostatis.

wrote this in a hurry. fyi Mew the doc REALLY needs to be experienced to recognize the inflammed prostrate parts. like i said, 13-14 cm for my age (21) and mine was 19cm yikes. do you have the digital copies of the transrectal? you can try sending those to georgiadis and ask him what he thinks of them… hopefully the images are taken from right angle etc etc. He took like 6-8 screens from my prostrate.

#631

Yea I probably went a bit too hard on Mew before. I just don’t want the guys to get discouraged and to have the courage to take this into their own hands.

#632

Thanks for reporting back and the warning on spicy food. Bummer! :frowning:

[b]Aside from relative ranges for prostate sizes per age bracket, if you will, I’d still like to know if inflammation can be present with a normal or small size prostate.

And which testing method REALLY indicated to him that things were amiss?[/b]

I’m sure you’ll get into all this when your laptop recharges, thanks again.

My urologist said I could have the originals TRUS scans after I just e-mailed him requesting them. I’m almost scared to share them with Dr. Giorgiadis and face a moment of truth, which is absurd and ridiculous.

#633

Would it be possible for you to get copies of YOUR transrectal ultrasound, post them here for us, and point out the inflammation using paint or something? Surely Dr. G has pointed out to you the inflamed parts, which in your case is almost your entire prostate :stuck_out_tongue:

Xhorndog also poses a good question regarding the possibility of having an inflamed prostate that is within the 14-15 CC’s… Please touch on this as well.

#634

Out of interest - when is he in Athens and when is he in Kos? Split over 6 months?

#635

He’s in Kos through June through August, I believe.

#636

Can you elaborate on your symptoms, the diagnosis, the treatments, any improvements? You’re scheduled to see Dr. Giorgiadis in mid-July, right?

#637

My initial symptoms when i stopped propecia was a crash and severe prostatitis, burning when urinating, going to the toilets lots, pain in lower back, fever, couldnt sit for too long, cant wear anything tight, i always wear jogging bottoms now
the uro gave me prostate massage and antibiotics sometime back which helped for few weeks and i did get a spontanious erection the next day,
july 11th im going to KOS,
i tried an anti candida diet for two weeks but dat seems impossible to keep on lol

my current symptoms have changed from what i had a year back, more fatigue,muscle weakness, low stamina, no desire for sex basically everything, brain fog was very bad when drinking but i can say it has reduced as i stopped drinking tea and alcohol.
Vit D injections and tablets now have helped probably the most, plently of sleep, colonics ive done,
i notice a lot of gas wen eating carbs n sugar dont knw wat dat is so now ive reduced sugar and carbs intake which makes a little difference, i take digestive enzymes as after eating evening meals i got bloated and inflamtion which is crazy, i also feel weakness in my leg muscles like theres no strength i dont knw if other guys here get dat

#638

You didn’t specifically mention E.D. as part of your crash (but I’m assuming it was and is a problem / and not just libido?). My IBS and flatulence disappeared w/ the elimination of sugar/carbs (same thing), and grains in general. I used to wake up tooting my butt trumpet at least a dozen times, now, no longer. Sugar feeds all the bad stuff, as even Dr. Georgiadis warns.

#639

bro I have exactly the same symptoms. I feel them numb with no strength or there is no blood circulation there. Some times I feel cold below my knees.
sps

#640

Should we start giving you routing numbers for all the money youre going to be paying out?