Prostatitis treatment as a novel insight into Finasteride related problems

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Accutane has a rather long and interesting list of side effects…

from http://www.accutanesideeffects.net/ (which also contains some scary stuff on birth defects)

of note:
[Size=4]Common Reactions to Accutane[/size]
Pain and swelling of the lips
Severe itching
Alopecia (hair-thinning/hair-loss/baldness)
Fragile and weaker skin
Vision problems
Decreased night vision (onset may be sudden)
Conjunctivitis (pink eye)
Contact lens intolerance
Dry mucous membranes (dry nose, lungs, bladder, anus)
Peeling skin on palms/soles
Nail changes
Nosebleeds
Photosensitivity (sensitivity to light)
Elevated triglycerides in the blood
Elevated liver enzymes (indicating liver damage)
Tinnitus (ringing in ears or buzzing in ears)
Joint pain and muscle pain
Back pain
Depression

[Size=4]Serious Reactions to Accutane[/size]
Depression
Erectile dysfunction (difficulty in maintaining erection)
Violent behavior/aggression
Psychosis (seeing or hearing things that are not real)
Suicidal ideation (rare)
Suicide attempts
Hearing impairment
Pseudotumor cerebri (swelling pressure in the brain)
Osteopenia/osteoporosis (loss in bone mass and strength/weak and fragile bones)
Hepatotoxicity (liver damage)
Anaphylaxis (rapid and deadly allergic reaction)
Allergic vasculitis (inflammation and damage to blood vessels)
Major birth defects
Cataracts/corneal opacities (can cause a decrease in vision and lead to eventual blindness)
Premature epiphyseal closure (short stature)
Neutropenia (low white blood cell count, which makes the body vulnerable to bacterial and fungal infections)
Agranulocytosis (a serious condition in which white blood cells decrease in number or disappear altogether) (rare)
Rhabdomyolysis (potentially fatal disease that destroys skeletal muscle) (rare)
Inflammatory bowel disease (inflammation of the intestine and resulting in abdominal cramping and persistent diarrhea)
Pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas, an organ important in digestion)
Vascular thrombosis (heart attack)
Stroke
Seizures

tryingnottoworry · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

There was an interesting topic by someone who’s had a transexual operation (female to male) who’s also suffering from PFS due to propecia: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4891

191 · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

From what I’ve read about accutane sufferers they have a very similar syndrome to us. I think there is definitely a link and the action as a 5AR inhibitor is the most likely.

joetz · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Sure, here are some of many:

I was a 32yr old health women. Ran 5 miles a day, worked out. I had a great life. I had two cysts the color of my skin. One that started to burst, so I went to the dermatologist and he recommened Accutane. When I got the booklet and read it and asked about theese side effects and the I Pledge I was told that I would only get some dry lips, maybe some dry skin. That it would go away afterwards. That they only had to document some of the side effects b/c few people had reported them and everyone blamed everything on accutane.(keep in mind I had no clue on the controversy of this drug) He said the I Pledge was hassle, but that it could cause birth defects. He said he never heard of anyone getting depressed or commiting sucide. (I live in Michigan by the way, where come to find out my congressman son killed him self while on this drug.) I even told them about running and working out they said oh, that’s fine.

People I warn you, don’t listen to your doctors all the time, do your own research, research on line. I sure wish I had.
I take it they foregot to mention this is used to treat cancer. Yep a chemotherapy drug. Do you know what chemo can do to your body???

I really only had some dry lips while on the medcine, but one week after I got a funny feeling in my foot and funny string apperared in my foot. One month later my leg felt like it was going to give out, I got dizzy, floaters in the eyes, tired, headaches, swelling behind the knee and knee pain.
After 6 months off of accutane I now have the following:

I have severe osteopenia, fracture risk, I have a curve in my lower spine. the 1st showed normal spine, 2 months later it showed a curve.

Mri showed trauma to my patella, red marrow, small joint effusion, tendosis of the quadracep. ( I had no trauma to my patella) Doctors are still confused.

Iron defcient, with out being anemic. ( I had 3% iron in my body)

swelling behind my head, switched to both sides. mri showed nothing. still swollen on the left side some

severe dry eyes, skin, hair. the only part of my body that isn’t dry is my face, it’s still oily. (now explain that one) I still have the two cysts and have regular acne worse then before.

I have chemical senstivity to foods and medcines. I can’t eat or drink the one things I use to love.

I have severe bone, joint and muscle pain.

My hair has started to fall out some, my scalp sometimes burns and itches.

My skin is so sensitive I can only use soap and water, If I use anything else it burns and break out in a rash.

My skin aslo looks like I have aged and I look 80 not 32. My face sometimes turns beet red for no reason. However, it always has a slight pink blush color now across the cheeks and burns.

I have a thyroid disorder now. (does not run in my family) also a postive ds strand. doctors say could be drug induced lupus, they don’t really know.

I get vibrations that sometimes run through my body, however it comes and goes at times.

Insomina

Last but no least all this has now gave me depression. I ask god to take me everyday. I loved my life and now it is over. I want my life back

I finally got to have a emg yesterday, I have been to numerous doctors regarding the string in my foot and still they call it a mystery. the emg came back as no nerve damage yet which is good. They can only assume it may be one of the superfical nerves, or that I may of developed calcifications of tendons and ligaments that traped a nerve. He wasn’t sure.

The kicker is I didn’t even need accutane to begin with. The second derm told me he didn’t understand why they put me on this drug. That in order for the type of cyst I had you they had to be taken off. You have to get to the core of the cyst for it to go away and not come back.

I leave you with one question to ask yourself before you pop that first pill: Is vanity, a non life threating condition such as acne worth your health, dying,brain damage or any of the long list of serious long life side effects???

My sickness after Accutane started out as a horrendous sinus infection with strange changes in my bowels, fatigue, nausea and depression. Over the years I have found some drugs that have kept me going this long. Trazadone, Elavil, Celexa (antidepressants) Synthroid for an underactive thyroid and last but not least a string of antibiotics that have for the most part kept the staphlococcus sores off my face and kept me from feeling like I had the flu every day. I have tried to make the best of these last years, trying to grasp the elusive joy in life that Accutane snuffs out of its users.

Beginning on January 1st of this year 2009, I have battled one sinus infection after the other. I have a cough that just wont quit. An easy solution to these problems would normally be a course of antibiotics. Here lies the rub. I have been on these antibiotics for all these years in order to feel halfway decent and try to have a life. Now of course, I have superbugs and no antibiotic is touching them. Gang, I tell you, I weary of this.

I use to think that the suicide ideation side effect was the worst of Accutanes long term side effects. It has dogged me daily for 23 years. I have given it much thought in the last 23 years. ( Plenty of time to think it through). I have come to what I think may be at the heart of this side effect now and have changed my mind. I know this is an unusual statement to make, but the sufferers will know what I am talking about. I now believe that it is God’s way of saving us from A FATE WORSE THAN DEATH. For that is ones life becomes after Accutane and has for thousands of us now. Such a thing has never happened before. A drug that saps you of your life energy and no simple lab experiments to prove it. How long it will go on I cannot imagine. I am getting ready to close up shop. However, I intend to go not with a whimper, but a bang.

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Accutane sounds like an absolutely horrible experience, no question. But to say that we have more in common with the Accutane sufferers based on that list of side effects than, say, Prostatitis patients is a stretch. Especially since these cases did not mention any female sexual side effects. Even if there are sexually dysfunctional females who took Accutane, it says nothing about our unique anatomy and its potential to suffer inflammation and infection.

Oscar · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

No one on this board has markers for inflammation such as raised ESR or C-Reactive Protein (apart fom Tim who has Chron’s). Maybe ask Dr Mariano why that should be if we are in an ‘inflammed’ state.

Dubya_B · July 1, 2022, 1:23pm

If you replace the word “accutane” with “finasteride” in the stories of most accutane sufferers you would notice very little, if any difference. It is not known if we are absolutely dealing with the same problem though, I’ll admit that.

Is the depression and fatigue described by prostatitis sufferers in any way comparable to the life-altering anhedonia of many pfs and accutane sufferers?
Does prostatitis cause aching joints, dry eyes, dry skin, digestive issues, muscular atrophy, vision problems, or intense anxiety?

I actually had a glaring symptom of prostatitis while crashing from accutane (the dull ache between anus and scrotum) and developed a weaker urine stream. I discounted this as irrelevant because the pain was minor and went away within at least 2 months and never returned. Also, it seems that only about 1/3 of the member templates here contain complaints of prostate pain.

The big debate is “can pfs cause prostatitis, or does prostatitis cause pfs?”

There are many complaints of sexual dysfunction among women who took accutane including: vaginal dryness, severe loss of libido, decreased sensation, and inability to orgasm. Compare vaginal dryness to reduced ejaculate and you have the female equivalent of pfs sexual side effects.

This is the user “Grey_Wolf”, he/she actually developed sexual sides from using propecia to reduce body hair growth, quit the drug successfully without permanent problems, then developed sides again while taking saw palmetto. He doesn’t seem to have a severe case, but still complains of some sides after SP

I was actually expecting joetz to post stories of women who used finasteride to prevent hirutism or other androgenic symptoms of PCOS.
There are women out there taking finasteride and it is probably only a matter of time before they begin showing up on this message board.

Oscar · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

I’m sorry thats just totally, totally incorrect and misleading.

Accutane sufferers have a range of side effects we do not have. Also, even amongst accutane sides sufferers sexual sides are rare.

Xhorndog was right when he said that trying to link finasteride and accutane really does stretch things. Of course that does not make him right about, er, leaky gut? Nor does that mean people advocating prostatitis are correct.

Mew · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Accutane (isotretinoin / 13-cis-Retinoic Acid) has many mechanisms of action, including 5AR1 inhibition. Finasteride is primarily a 5AR2 inhibitor, although it does start to inhibit 5AR1 (reversibly) after prolonged use.

5AR1 is found primarily in skin and liver. 5AR2 is found predominantly in genital tissue, prostate, liver, hypothalamus and other brain regions. Accordingly, inhibition of 5AR and resultant side effects will be different based on tissue localization of these enzymes. What both drugs do have in common is that they reduce DHT/3-adiol G levels in both men and women.

As for “leaky gut”, it is simply a fad/dubious diagnosis peddled by those trying to sell you products, and has nothing to do with Finasteride.

quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/fad.html

A small percentage of physicians and large percentages of chiropractors, naturopaths and bogus “nutritionists” are labeling patients with diagnoses not recognized by the scientific community.

Some of these practitioners apply one or more of these diagnoses to almost every patient they see. The health-food industry profits from this process by selling books promoting these alleged conditions and supplement concoctions claimed to help them. Some “fad” diagnoses have been around for years, while others are recent creations.

… Another diagnosis that is popular among supplement promoters is “parasites,” which may be “treated” with laxatives and other “intestinal cleansers,” colonic irrigation, plant enzymes, dietary measures, and homeopathic remedies. Yet another, “leaky gut syndrome,” is described by proponents as a condition in which the intestinal lining becomes irritated and porous so that unwanted food particles, “toxins,” bacteria, parasites, and “Candida” enter the bloodstream and result in “a weakened immune system, digestive disorders, and eventually chronic and autoimmune disease.”

Treatment of this alleged condition can include dietary changes (such as not eating protein and starch at the same meal); “cleansing” with herbal products; “reestablishing good balance” of intestinal bacteria; and supplement concoctions claimed to strengthen and repair the intestinal lining."

… National Council Against Health Fraud president Robert S. Baratz, DDS, MD, PhD has made an astute observation:
Some fad diagnoses seem almost to be interchangeable.[b] Large numbers of people are scammed in the same way for different conditions, by a variety of practitioners and unlicensed personnel. It is as though there is a "menu" of quack treatments that they can choose for a variety of alleged conditions depending on the patient's susceptibility and pocketbook and the practitioner's guile, gall, and greed.
We believe that practitioners who exploit patients in this way should have their licenses revoked and that the inappropriate products they use should be removed from the marketplace.[/b]

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Does quackwatch list anything for big pharma’s motives? Or the scientists whose studies they sponsor, the FDA, or the the resultant over-prescribed drugs with a list of side effects longer than my formerly erect penis?

I think quackwatch.com ought to be featured on quackwatch.

Mens_Rea · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

As per above.

What makes “quackwatch” such a strong authority?

Frankly, i think it’s a bit ridiculous being so dismissive of something that already helped one member immensely and is helping others currently. And, why? Because “quackwatch” says so?

Our science is miles away from where we need it to be. For that reason alone, it’s bloody stupid to be so dismissive.

Candida is a big thing already on the “underground”. It’s came about due to the overuse of anti-biotics. Watch and see how legitimized it becomes in the next number of years. Much like PFS, perhaps.

I don’t care if i have candida or not. I don’t even care if there’s zero connection with it and fin (although i believe there is). I am convinced that sytemic candida exists because i’ve read many hundreds of personal stories about it and people’s huge recoveries when they targeted/treated it on their own initiative. The evidence is pretty damning…more stronger than PFS, ironically. I think we need to remember that.

notworthit · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Dubya, no one has had to have part of their colon removed because of Finasteride. The acts of violence (self inflictions and that directed at others) that have been incited by Isotretinoin are just abhorrent; for sure, they are clear indications of just how severely hypervitaminosis-A disrupts the healthy brain. I also suspect the fatigue is more pronounced, in general.

visionquest99 · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

Off topic again, but Dr. Sahelian has some interesting comments on Stephen Barrett and Quackwatch here. I’m still undecided on Quackwatch (and Dr. Sahelian for that matter) but they both have some useful info on their respective sites.

[i]However, I hardly came across reports on his website regarding some of the scams or inaccurate promotion and marketing practices by the pharmaceutical industry. Why is this? Why has Stephen Barrett, M.D. focused almost all of his attention on the nutritional industry and has hardly spent time pointing out the billions of dollars wasted each year by consumers on certain prescription and non-prescription pharmaceutical drugs? If he truly claims to be a true consumer advocate, isn’t it his responsibility to make sure the big scams are addressed first before focusing on the smaller scams? It’s like the government putting all of its efforts going after the poor misusing food stamps while certain big companies cheat billions of dollars from consumers with hardly any governmental oversight.
 Why is there no review of Vioxx on Quackwatch? Why is there no mention on quackwatch.org of the worthless cold and cough medicines sold by pharmaceutical companies and drug stores? Hundreds of millions of dollars are wasted each year by consumers on these worthless and potentially harmful decongestants and cough syrups. Why is there no mention on quackwatch of the dangers of acetaminophen use, including liver damage?[/i]

fkthesedrugs · May 25, 2018, 6:39am

erbook.net/accutane.htm
sexualtips.net/accutane_affecting_sex.htm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3310

Accutane causing vaginal pain and fragility

Q: When I took my second course of Accutane I developed severe vaginal pain during intercourse. For two days following intercourse, my vaginal lining would slough and during this period of time it was extremely sore. No tampons could be inserted and certainly no penises either! I saw several doctors through Kaiser Permanente, but none knew why it happened. Not one of them linked it to Accutane. It became almost impossible for me to have sex. I could still do it for a minute or two with a bearable amount of pain, but that too became rare. It has gotten to where I cannot have intercourse at all as insertion of anything feels like I am being stuffed with an extra large sandpaper dildo. Of course, this reduced my appetite for sex. I was a beautiful, flirtatious young lady with a steady boyfriend when this happened to me and suddenly my hopes for a healthy sex life or even a marriage were more or less destroyed.

spstriken · May 25, 2018, 6:40am

visionquest99:

Xhorndog:

Does quackwatch list anything for big pharma’s motives? Or the scientists whose studies they sponsor, the FDA, or the the resultant over-prescribed drugs with a list of side effects longer than my formerly erect penis?

Off topic again, but Dr. Sahelian has some interesting comments on Stephen Barrett and Quackwatch here. I’m still undecided on Quackwatch (and Dr. Sahelian for that matter) but they both have some useful info on their respective sites.
[i]However, I hardly came across reports on his website regarding some of the scams or inaccurate promotion and marketing practices by the pharmaceutical industry. Why is this? Why has Stephen Barrett, M.D. focused almost all of his attention on the nutritional industry and has hardly spent time pointing out the billions of dollars wasted each year by consumers on certain prescription and non-prescription pharmaceutical drugs? If he truly claims to be a true consumer advocate, isn’t it his responsibility to make sure the big scams are addressed first before focusing on the smaller scams? It’s like the government putting all of its efforts going after the poor misusing food stamps while certain big companies cheat billions of dollars from consumers with hardly any governmental oversight.
 Why is there no review of Vioxx on Quackwatch? Why is there no mention on quackwatch.org of the worthless cold and cough medicines sold by pharmaceutical companies and drug stores? Hundreds of millions of dollars are wasted each year by consumers on these worthless and potentially harmful decongestants and cough syrups. Why is there no mention on quackwatch of the dangers of acetaminophen use, including liver damage?[/i]

Dr. Sahelian himself is a snake oil /poison seller. go on his websites and see how many are complaining about gyno, low sex and other health issues after using saw palmetto and he pays no attention to them, instead constantly singing the praise of natural poisons.
I am sorry but the fact is fact. Please do not turst these guys.

spstriken · May 25, 2018, 6:40am

fkthesedrugs:

http://www.erbook.net/accutane.htm
sexualtips.net/accutane_affecting_sex.htm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3310

Accutane causing vaginal pain and fragility

Q: When I took my second course of Accutane I developed severe vaginal pain during intercourse. For two days following intercourse, my vaginal lining would slough and during this period of time it was extremely sore. No tampons could be inserted and certainly no penises either! I saw several doctors through Kaiser Permanente, but none knew why it happened. Not one of them linked it to Accutane. It became almost impossible for me to have sex. I could still do it for a minute or two with a bearable amount of pain, but that too became rare. It has gotten to where I cannot have intercourse at all as insertion of anything feels like I am being stuffed with an extra large sandpaper dildo. Of course, this reduced my appetite for sex. I was a beautiful, flirtatious young lady with a steady boyfriend when this happened to me and suddenly my hopes for a healthy sex life or even a marriage were more or less destroyed.

after this story and many stories on different FTM fourums it is now clear that our problems have nothing to with prostate, testicles or penis. It is very deep rooted. some thing , some thing is making our body tissues very weak and soft. our small penises and testicle are just the visible signs of the problems not the cause.
Besides soft and easily bruiseable body tiusses I am now feeling our blood quality /production is very much compromised. I am having no blood in my body. My face, hands and feet are just pale /whitish. This is no wonder we are feeling numbness in our extremeties and genetile area. Poor blood quality and poor blood circulation is also needs to be taken into account.

I am sorry not hijacking the thread but it is very relevant.

toadstool · May 25, 2018, 6:40am

spstriken:

fkthesedrugs:

http://www.erbook.net/accutane.htm
sexualtips.net/accutane_affecting_sex.htm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3310

Accutane causing vaginal pain and fragility

Q: When I took my second course of Accutane I developed severe vaginal pain during intercourse. For two days following intercourse, my vaginal lining would slough and during this period of time it was extremely sore. No tampons could be inserted and certainly no penises either! I saw several doctors through Kaiser Permanente, but none knew why it happened. Not one of them linked it to Accutane. It became almost impossible for me to have sex. I could still do it for a minute or two with a bearable amount of pain, but that too became rare. It has gotten to where I cannot have intercourse at all as insertion of anything feels like I am being stuffed with an extra large sandpaper dildo. Of course, this reduced my appetite for sex. I was a beautiful, flirtatious young lady with a steady boyfriend when this happened to me and suddenly my hopes for a healthy sex life or even a marriage were more or less destroyed.

after this story and many stories on different FTM fourums it is now clear that our problems have nothing to with prostate, testicles or penis. It is very deep rooted. some thing , some thing is making our body tissues very weak and soft. our small penises and testicle are just the visible signs of the problems not the cause.
Besides soft and easily bruiseable body tiusses I am now feeling our blood quality /production is very much compromised. I am having no blood in my body. My face, hands and feet are just pale /whitish. This is no wonder we are feeling numbness in our extremeties and genetile area. Poor blood quality and poor blood circulation is also needs to be taken into account.

I am sorry not hijacking the thread but it is very relevant.

um no…

Dubya_B · May 25, 2018, 6:40am

I’ll admit that this was poor choice of words to get my point across, but believe me when I say that I have read stories of hundreds of accutane victims on different websites while looking for a cure and MANY of the men and women complain ONLY of sexual dysfunction, brain fog, and blunted emotions[/b]. I very much doubt this is only happening in internet-land and not in real life. Remember how uncommon of a side effect sexual dysfunction is with finasteride users?

A lot of accutane victims are stranded on the same island as pfs sufferers, we have similar symptoms, we just took a different boat to get there and skipped the ports for ulcerative colitis, psychosis, liver damage, etc…

I’m trying no to hijack this thread either so…

My burning question about the topic at hand is “how could prostatitis cause someone to lose their emotional capacity, ex-finasteride user or not?”

best · May 25, 2018, 6:40am

I got lost with the thread
shouldn’t this be just about a breakthrough treatment related to porstatitis?

Xhorndog · May 25, 2018, 6:40am

Well, I don’t know that anyone would claim that Prostatitis is necessarily what ills us, or any given % of us, or that it could or would blunt emotional capacity (at least, not directly).

Solonjk just stated that men with erectile and libido challenges with fin and non-fin backgrounds recovered by pursuing a unique prostatitis treatment. These guys can also be asymptomatic in terms of the acute/painful prostatitis clues. So it’s perhaps, one thing to rule out, if you haven’t already.

One could then say “Oh, well if they recovered from the prostate/inflammation therapy, then they didn’t have PFS.” Or, one could conclude that, perhaps finasteride causes (or exacerbates) prostatitis, perhaps prostatitis is a part of the PFS pathology. Depends on how one chooses to look at it.