Perhaps, but perhaps not. Girls don’t have penises that need to stand up and perform, so their issues are not necessarily identical. And I’m not so quick to dismiss Solonjk’s testimony on the PFSers he met at Dr. Georgiades’ practice.
Regardless, this is quite interesting. Accutane does destroy the intestines, in fact, all the lawsuit ads are for crohn’s and ulceritive colitis.
Joetz, could you kindly provide some links to testimonials of females who have these symptoms? Thanks.
I did a bit of reading there. One girl complains of abdominal pains ever since accutane usage (8 years later!) and another got small intestinal cancer 1 year later and blames accuntane. That’s some serious shit right there.
Accutane has a rather long and interesting list of side effects…
from http://www.accutanesideeffects.net/ (which also contains some scary stuff on birth defects)
of note:
[Size=4]Common Reactions to Accutane[/size]
Pain and swelling of the lips
Severe itching
Alopecia (hair-thinning/hair-loss/baldness)
Fragile and weaker skin
Vision problems
Decreased night vision (onset may be sudden)
Conjunctivitis (pink eye)
Contact lens intolerance
Dry mucous membranes (dry nose, lungs, bladder, anus)
Peeling skin on palms/soles
Nail changes
Nosebleeds
Photosensitivity (sensitivity to light)
Elevated triglycerides in the blood
Elevated liver enzymes (indicating liver damage)
Tinnitus (ringing in ears or buzzing in ears)
Joint pain and muscle pain
Back pain
Depression
[Size=4]Serious Reactions to Accutane[/size]
Depression
Erectile dysfunction (difficulty in maintaining erection)
Violent behavior/aggression
Psychosis (seeing or hearing things that are not real)
Suicidal ideation (rare)
Suicide attempts
Hearing impairment
Pseudotumor cerebri (swelling pressure in the brain)
Osteopenia/osteoporosis (loss in bone mass and strength/weak and fragile bones)
Hepatotoxicity (liver damage)
Anaphylaxis (rapid and deadly allergic reaction)
Allergic vasculitis (inflammation and damage to blood vessels)
Major birth defects
Cataracts/corneal opacities (can cause a decrease in vision and lead to eventual blindness)
Premature epiphyseal closure (short stature)
Neutropenia (low white blood cell count, which makes the body vulnerable to bacterial and fungal infections)
Agranulocytosis (a serious condition in which white blood cells decrease in number or disappear altogether) (rare)
Rhabdomyolysis (potentially fatal disease that destroys skeletal muscle) (rare)
Inflammatory bowel disease (inflammation of the intestine and resulting in abdominal cramping and persistent diarrhea)
Pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas, an organ important in digestion)
Vascular thrombosis (heart attack)
Stroke
Seizures
There was an interesting topic by someone who’s had a transexual operation (female to male) who’s also suffering from PFS due to propecia: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4891
From what I’ve read about accutane sufferers they have a very similar syndrome to us. I think there is definitely a link and the action as a 5AR inhibitor is the most likely.
Sure, here are some of many:
Accutane sounds like an absolutely horrible experience, no question. But to say that we have more in common with the Accutane sufferers based on that list of side effects than, say, Prostatitis patients is a stretch. Especially since these cases did not mention any female sexual side effects. Even if there are sexually dysfunctional females who took Accutane, it says nothing about our unique anatomy and its potential to suffer inflammation and infection.
No one on this board has markers for inflammation such as raised ESR or C-Reactive Protein (apart fom Tim who has Chron’s). Maybe ask Dr Mariano why that should be if we are in an ‘inflammed’ state.
If you replace the word “accutane” with “finasteride” in the stories of most accutane sufferers you would notice very little, if any difference. It is not known if we are absolutely dealing with the same problem though, I’ll admit that.
Is the depression and fatigue described by prostatitis sufferers in any way comparable to the life-altering anhedonia of many pfs and accutane sufferers?
Does prostatitis cause aching joints, dry eyes, dry skin, digestive issues, muscular atrophy, vision problems, or intense anxiety?
I actually had a glaring symptom of prostatitis while crashing from accutane (the dull ache between anus and scrotum) and developed a weaker urine stream. I discounted this as irrelevant because the pain was minor and went away within at least 2 months and never returned. Also, it seems that only about 1/3 of the member templates here contain complaints of prostate pain.
The big debate is “can pfs cause prostatitis, or does prostatitis cause pfs?”
There are many complaints of sexual dysfunction among women who took accutane including: vaginal dryness, severe loss of libido, decreased sensation, and inability to orgasm. Compare vaginal dryness to reduced ejaculate and you have the female equivalent of pfs sexual side effects.
This is the user “Grey_Wolf”, he/she actually developed sexual sides from using propecia to reduce body hair growth, quit the drug successfully without permanent problems, then developed sides again while taking saw palmetto. He doesn’t seem to have a severe case, but still complains of some sides after SP
I was actually expecting joetz to post stories of women who used finasteride to prevent hirutism or other androgenic symptoms of PCOS.
There are women out there taking finasteride and it is probably only a matter of time before they begin showing up on this message board.
I’m sorry thats just totally, totally incorrect and misleading.
Accutane sufferers have a range of side effects we do not have. Also, even amongst accutane sides sufferers sexual sides are rare.
Xhorndog was right when he said that trying to link finasteride and accutane really does stretch things. Of course that does not make him right about, er, leaky gut? Nor does that mean people advocating prostatitis are correct.
Accutane (isotretinoin / 13-cis-Retinoic Acid) has many mechanisms of action, including 5AR1 inhibition. Finasteride is primarily a 5AR2 inhibitor, although it does start to inhibit 5AR1 (reversibly) after prolonged use.
5AR1 is found primarily in skin and liver. 5AR2 is found predominantly in genital tissue, prostate, liver, hypothalamus and other brain regions. Accordingly, inhibition of 5AR and resultant side effects will be different based on tissue localization of these enzymes. What both drugs do have in common is that they reduce DHT/3-adiol G levels in both men and women.
As for “leaky gut”, it is simply a fad/dubious diagnosis peddled by those trying to sell you products, and has nothing to do with Finasteride.
quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/fad.html
Does quackwatch list anything for big pharma’s motives? Or the scientists whose studies they sponsor, the FDA, or the the resultant over-prescribed drugs with a list of side effects longer than my formerly erect penis?
I think quackwatch.com ought to be featured on quackwatch.
As per above.
What makes “quackwatch” such a strong authority?
Frankly, i think it’s a bit ridiculous being so dismissive of something that already helped one member immensely and is helping others currently. And, why? Because “quackwatch” says so?
Our science is miles away from where we need it to be. For that reason alone, it’s bloody stupid to be so dismissive.
Candida is a big thing already on the “underground”. It’s came about due to the overuse of anti-biotics. Watch and see how legitimized it becomes in the next number of years. Much like PFS, perhaps.
I don’t care if i have candida or not. I don’t even care if there’s zero connection with it and fin (although i believe there is). I am convinced that sytemic candida exists because i’ve read many hundreds of personal stories about it and people’s huge recoveries when they targeted/treated it on their own initiative. The evidence is pretty damning…more stronger than PFS, ironically. I think we need to remember that.
Dubya, no one has had to have part of their colon removed because of Finasteride. The acts of violence (self inflictions and that directed at others) that have been incited by Isotretinoin are just abhorrent; for sure, they are clear indications of just how severely hypervitaminosis-A disrupts the healthy brain. I also suspect the fatigue is more pronounced, in general.
Off topic again, but Dr. Sahelian has some interesting comments on Stephen Barrett and Quackwatch here. I’m still undecided on Quackwatch (and Dr. Sahelian for that matter) but they both have some useful info on their respective sites.
erbook.net/accutane.htm
sexualtips.net/accutane_affecting_sex.htm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3310
Accutane causing vaginal pain and fragility
Q: When I took my second course of Accutane I developed severe vaginal pain during intercourse. For two days following intercourse, my vaginal lining would slough and during this period of time it was extremely sore. No tampons could be inserted and certainly no penises either! I saw several doctors through Kaiser Permanente, but none knew why it happened. Not one of them linked it to Accutane. It became almost impossible for me to have sex. I could still do it for a minute or two with a bearable amount of pain, but that too became rare. It has gotten to where I cannot have intercourse at all as insertion of anything feels like I am being stuffed with an extra large sandpaper dildo. Of course, this reduced my appetite for sex. I was a beautiful, flirtatious young lady with a steady boyfriend when this happened to me and suddenly my hopes for a healthy sex life or even a marriage were more or less destroyed.
Dr. Sahelian himself is a snake oil /poison seller. go on his websites and see how many are complaining about gyno, low sex and other health issues after using saw palmetto and he pays no attention to them, instead constantly singing the praise of natural poisons.
I am sorry but the fact is fact. Please do not turst these guys.
after this story and many stories on different FTM fourums it is now clear that our problems have nothing to with prostate, testicles or penis. It is very deep rooted. some thing , some thing is making our body tissues very weak and soft. our small penises and testicle are just the visible signs of the problems not the cause.
Besides soft and easily bruiseable body tiusses I am now feeling our blood quality /production is very much compromised. I am having no blood in my body. My face, hands and feet are just pale /whitish. This is no wonder we are feeling numbness in our extremeties and genetile area. Poor blood quality and poor blood circulation is also needs to be taken into account.
I am sorry not hijacking the thread but it is very relevant.
um no…
