I have changed the regimen to the tongkat ali and progesterone 5 days on 2 days off and the calcium glucarate every day. Also, I don’t think such a high amount of progesterone is needed. I am rubbing about 5-10mg on my upper arms and chest. I also have been eating a big salad with a lot of spinach every day for the last few weeks based on the posts about spinach curing some people. Now I don’t know whether it is the spinach or the progesterone, but the improvements have been dramatic. My scrotum for the last six years has been hanging very loose and now it is tight most of the time and looks like it did before pfs. My balls also are normal size most of the time and my erections are getting stronger and easier to maintain. I would encourage people to try the spinach and progesterone. It takes a while to kick in and there are ups and downs, but just be patient and stick with it. My improvements seem to vary not based on the on and off days but based on the time of day- better in the morning than at night.
I wonder if you need less progesterone because you are also taking the calcium glucarate. Maybe you only need the calcium glucarate aand tongka, have you tried/would you be willing to remove the progesterone completely?
I think I will stay on this a couple more months and then try different variations of the regimen.
I started a new relation and i have been postponing sex. I really like the girl, but she is starting to wonder why i am evasive. This is so fucked up, i am only in my 30s. There are guys in their 60s who are horny like hell.
Anywho:it seems like progesterone is the only possible hope for me now. I, like most people here have normal hormonal profile and do NOT respond to t boosters. I have seen people like me get better on progesterone, but never on T shots.
what is the overall satisfaction rate with progesterone would you say? How much worse things could get? Hoe many horror stories vs successes? anyone has lurked here long enough to answer this. I know many do not respond to progesterone, but it seems like progesterone is more likely to do SOMEThING than T-boosters or even dht…
good question and it really depends on how you look at it. Of people who have used progesterone by taking low doses for a short amount of time along with no tongkat Ali , there is a very low success rate and probably not worth it. The very few people who have taken it with tongkat ali and progesterone seem to have success. If I were you I would probably take Tongkat Ali and calcium D glucarate all together and see how I feel, probably a pretty good bet there since the calcium d glucarate removes estrogen without blocking 5ar ii.
as for how much worse it could get and horror stories, I have heard people state that progesterone removed their libido completely, and other states that any progress they had gained from taking testosterone boosters was lost. Again, these people were probably taking lower doses of progesterone and it’s my personal opinion that a much higher dose is needed at first before tapering down to lower doses. I wouldn’t mess with it, although I personally take it and it works for me it seems a bit risky
I can’t take it anymore. I am hopping on the Progesterone bandwagon.
I might regret it, but if I do, I will be just very unlucky.
I have done thorough research on this, going back to the first days of the forum. I do not have everyone’s experience of course, but it looks like the odds look very good.
A casual count of recent experimenters give me this number (I have their name and I have been collection information on them, was thinking of conducting analysis to see who is more likely to benefit but I can’t wait too tired, depressed,…):
recently I have 23 people using it and reporting back
Out of them 12 have had an overall good experience. 4 who had no effect, and 7 who were adversely affected by it.
If I rate the experience from -5 (terrible, such as robbo’s) and +5 (cured, such as LATE, notwithstanding his anti-depressant)
The average satisfaction is (based on my subjective evaluation of their subjective reporting on a -5 to +5 scale):0.95, almost +1
This average is pulled down by the negative experience of Robbo and Ehh. I wonder, did these guys try the Progesterone cream that had SP in it?? Because the other 5 who had a negative experience had a small setback, nothing major.
The average satisfaction of those who responded positively= 3
So I am done with waiting on the sidelines. I have not responded well to anything so far, pro-T do not work for me, pro-DHT work well for short periods, I need to try this.
Today I spread 5mg on my left forearm. I will update. Wish me good luck. If anyone wants to chat by skype PM me.
I think Robbo and Ehh need to tell us exactly what they have done, how much application, for who long, how many interruptions, where did they apply, and importantly the name of the brand.
I am saying this because without the experience of these two, based on what I have seen, trying progesterone is a no brainer. Many people felt worse but either felt much better later or just recovered and went on without long term impact. I think only Robbo claims that there was a persistent negative effect. Of course it is possible. We are all different. But It is nevertheless interesting to dwelve into more detail.
I am willing to write a scientific-style paper detailing the experience of people on this forum, mentionning the theories, the studies in references. Would be great to have some help on this. We can then send to researchers and tell them: think about this…
I am a prof at a top school, but not in biology (another scientific field). will report my experience.
please do share your experience with it. Here’s my log so far, will update soon.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10060&start=20
numbduck,
thanks for the detailed analysis on who benefited and who got worse from progesterone use. Your work is quite helpful. I am also planning to take progesterone in the next couple of days.
Not to discourage anyone, but I think the “progesterone treatment” has been exhausted. Very few recovered - and its likely they recovered naturally.
Why not participate in the PFS studies so that the doctors can figure out a possible treatment.
Dr green: my understanding is that harvars has reached its goal, and texas is maybe 5 away. So i also join you in encouraging people to participate. But let us not make it sound as if people are not going because they want to try a new experimental treatment, since they can always try the treatment after participating (baylor has only one day of examination as i understand…)
Regarding your conclusion about progesterone: can we talk or email? I have been reading all i can about progesterone here and i reached a different conclusion. I agree very few recovered but most seemed to benefit to some extent. I would like to be corrected. I have the list if names, we can discuss the specifics.
Again if someone is willing to help me write that paper let me know
On a personal level it is my 3rd day today. I managed to have sex with that girl, after failing twice. It is too early to tell, cause even if the improvement is due to progesterone it is very very subtle (with real results however). Could be coincidence, most likely. I will update in a week.
Numbduck, one of the leading researchers in Italy, Dr. Melcangi, is an expert on neurosteroids and progesterone. He knows much more than we will understand. I do not think we will come to any beneficial conclusion by comparing different reported experiences with progesterone.
The incorrect use of this progesterone protocol has been exhausted. I’m one of the few (possibly the only) people who are actually following the protcol and have greatly benefited from it, this probably isn’t a coincidence. People are slapping on 5 mg of progesterone for a week and then calling it quits because they feel worse (even though it was stated this should be expected) and come to the erroneous conclusion that progesterone does not help and makes things worse; I tried it like this and felt awful as well. They have failed to include tongkat ali, maca, and selegiline and are applying too small a dose of progesterone (the original poster later says he was taking around 10 mg a day, not 5). I would agree that 5 mg of progesterone by itself is not beneficial in the treatment of PFS, my only stance is that the protocol of this thread in its entirety is beneficial.
If you read the reviews on here then you’ll start to believe it’s worthless as well, if you look at the big picture and context you’ll see a different story.
Good luck numbduck, please remember that in the PFS world the time to determine if a supplement is sustainable long-term with positive effects is measured in months.
As to me, I slowly resumed taking progesterone, even at 5mg I feel that it helps with the neurosteroids without inhibiting too much the LH/FSH and the 5ar enzyme. I wish I could take larger doses like BrongFogBoy suggests, but when I tried it I woke up with tense scrotal sac, testicle pain and eventually crashed, so I’ll stay on low doses for now.
One question for BrongFogBoy, do you think that the body will get used to Tongkat Ali or is it better to rotate it with other T boosters e.g. Tribulus, Maca, etc.
Hey Elijah, Tongkat does need to be cycled. The general rule is however long you are on cycle, you should be off of it for half that time. So if you are on for two weeks then you need to go off for one week.
I like to go 5 days on two days off, I’ve found that it keeps me feeling pretty good most of the time where as when I go for longer cycles like 2 weeks on 1 week off I start to feel a little worse after about 5 days in the off cycle. Find what works for you, please let us know how you feel on it when you have a chance, I hope it goes well for you
Also, would you mind telling me how high your dose was when you crashed and for how long you did it? I’m keeping a bit of a mental track record so I can see how reliable it is.
Since you guys seem determined to try to solve this yourselves, why not add oxytocin. I have no idea how you would get your hands on it, but adding oxytocin would increase 5 ar levels. That way if you took progesterone or T boosters at least more 5 ar would be present to increase DHT. At least peripherally.
Thank you for your advice BrongFogBoy. To answer your question, I crashed at my third cycle, when I increased the dose from 5mg to 10mg and applied it to the scrotal sac.
I’ve been gone gone for a little while but I’m coming back because I started eating raw spinach I have found that eating raw spinach has helped it’s been four days now my body mass has grown muscles look a little bit bigger I don’t look and feel weakBrain fog has kind of lifted body feels a lot hotter warmer I guess I’ll be back later the post more
Guys were a spinach is something that you have to try a lease for 20 days
One other thing people are staying away for steak or red meat this is the wrong thing to do you have to eat meat when you we need it creates Testosterone in the body
Thanks for the response, I found this information (see below) on a website and have found this is true for me. If you ever feel like you want to try it again you may want to start off with a higher dose as 10 is still pretty low. I’ve actually found that just continuing to apply progesterone at ranges of 5 mg every 30 minutes until the “crash” symptoms go away which at the start may be as high as 30, 40, 50 or even higher doses. Over time when the estrogen clears you need less and less: