Good info, good things come to those who are patient with this therapy
i’ve tried progesterone several times in the past, but maybe I wasn’t ready for it yet or didn’t have sufficient T levels because I literally felt nothing either bad or good. i’m considering going back on this protocol, but the thread is so long now I don’t even know where to begin looking for an updated version of it.
- how many people have had success using this protocol/was it long lasting?
- did it get rid of mental side effects? I could give a shit about the sexual ones at this point, I need my brain back big time.
- what is the actual protocol/essential elements? I’ve read in another thread now about upping the dosage for better effect. will I need an anti-estrogen (clomid) as well? i’m already cycling maca, tongkat and tribulus weekly as well as eating well, lots of exercise etc.
cheers guys.
Msab1990 It worked on me I wrote in this page just check the result. was fantastic but it faded I can think for two reasons. Many alcohol and drugs or progesterone alone.
I would like to know if tribulus alone can reverse gynecomastia or if it was the combination with progesterone. I think tribulus alone can do it because some recoveries here people said this.
after five years, i cant control my erections in public when i see a girl that wants to play, i am emotionally flat, and after military service i realise that i have plenty of horny feeling if i compare to others, so i can say i am recovered.
i have used nothing only t4. but i am so flat. no smile no sad. i am not depressed. nothing could changed my emotions. its interesting
it might be worth it for you to keep your current routine and try a higher dose of progesterone, like 15 mg. I’m doing well on it right now and have the same routine
hey dude, how long have you been on progesterone and what dose? what’s your entire protocol ie are you using deprenyl and t boosters as well?
and do you think the effects have been long lasting? I’ve heard in the past it’s meant to be the best thing for mental sides, which are the ones that bug me the most, but I’ve never had any success or even any failure using it. just kind of stayed at baseline which I thought was weird.
my thread I just started covering my higher dose progesterone is here :
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10060&p=94581#p94581
I’m taking brewers yeast every day for the b vitamins
around 3000 iu d3 every day
2 pills tongkat Ali 1:100 every day
7 flavone as a natural ai twice a day
at least 15 mg of progesterone every day, sometimes as high as 30 mg always applied to scrotum
it’s too early to say if the effects are long lasting but I definitely feel better on this protocol and am feeling hornier more often. I plan on staying on this higher dose for awhile as I did only 5 mg a day for about 7 months and did not feel better
on days that I start off doing lower dose progesterone of 5 mg I don’t feel good but upon applying 15 mg more I feel better within 30 min, 5 mg simply is not effective for me like 15 mg along with test boosters and an ai.
The web site that Cdnuts followed to get cured is saying basically that we need to stimulate AR and remove estrogen.
boost-your-low-testosterone. … urces.html
Is also saying to improve liver in this situation to remove even more estrogen.
Is DIM aromatase inhibitor or estrogen blocker like tamoxifen and clomid?
DIM is a 5ar inhibitor.
Also, this may provide some insight as to why Tongkat Ali works in combination with progesterone. Progesterone has been shown to decrease LH (given this article is done on women, but most likely applies to men as well) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1828548, that article also shows that progesterone inhibits 97% of 5ar in scrotal skin, which is why I WOULD NOT recommend putting this anywhere near your genitals. But it would make sense that if we are estrogen dominant on a neurosteroidal level that 5ar would be inhibited, resulting in lower levels of 5ar reduced metabolites (which we do according the the Italian study). And when you re-sensitize the androgen receptor you would be more susceptible to estrogen’s effects. I think this is why progesterone should be cycled on an off. It seems that it may be a 5ar inhibitor, but is unlikely to be in the brain since progesterone is reduced to alleprenanolone via 5ar. Something that inhibits 5ar wouldn’t be reduced by it.
This has me interested and I would like to see what a protocol like this would do for us.
Torem 60 mg EOD (Or other SERMS to keep LH and FSH up while supplementing progesterone)
Arimidex .5 mg ED (To lower neural estrogen and give progesterone and 5ar a chance to work, also to prevent increased E2 levels from SERM)
Progesterone 15-20 mg cycled 2 weeks on 4 days off(For reasons already discussed)
POSSIBLY Andractim- Two pea sized globs, on both sides of the rib cage. (Also to counter neural estrogen and to stimulate 5ar activity throughout the body ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8344190)
Shut down from using progesterone and Andractim would be prevented by Torem. Andractim would be especially important to use while you were cycled off of the progesterone.
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What about testo-boosters, I don’t see any in your protocol.
I don’t think testo boosters increase lh, fsh, I think it just work in AR, I don’t see any increase in blood test by people who used it. Torem, tamox, clomid would increase for sure. I don’t know if your protocol will work I hope so, but I think the most important are testo boosters. Your protocol seems similar to justquitdut.
Try to see cdnuts posts. He used testo boosters for a long time he would feel better on it alone, but when he used it in his protocol that contain androhard, he got cured. I would say androhard removed estrogen just like progesterone, the science behind both protocols are similar.
did progesterone trtmnt start more sweating and oilness in your skin?
I don’t remember I do remember that my face changed, my eyes changed, I no more had the sick face, feminine, round shape. I would say my face got muscular.
This is the message I sent to Sanane I thought it would be good to share.
Hi Sanane. Actually I think it works, I will try again I got really good like 70% libido back, personality, mood, energy, morning wood, better orgasm, no more gyno etc, that was my up then I got the down that lead me with a better baseline. But then I couldn’t repeat this process because I thought it was just the progesterone cream that did it to me and actually it is a combo. Other stupid thing I did and if you check you will see that Elb did the same and we both crashed was smoking marijuana, this is poison I will never do it again.
So I will tell my theory behind prog protocol and why it works if you do it correctly.
First you need to get your AR back on this you can do by taking tribulus maca tongkat ali but you need to take higher dossges and for a long time until it works (check cdnuts earlier posts he explainsa bout it). When you get better with testo boosters your body will work again, your liver too (ti contains AR, 5ar receptors) when your liver starts to work it will metabolize estrogen, androgen.
Second this is the key in cdnuts and light at the end protocols. Remove excess estrogen, not with AI. Cdnuts used androhard, light used prog. When your body is working prog will help to remove the excess estrogen I read somewhere that you expell through your pee and/or poo. I will also try to use bile acids and high fiber diet and obviously a lot of water.
Why people don’t respond to TRT, why people don’t respond to androhard, why people don’t respond to ecstasy/mdma, why prog didn’t work for many?
The answer is we don’t have AR, that’s why we don’t feel different on TRT, that’s why we don’t feel higher libido from androhard or even muscle building, that’s why we don’t get libido increase from some drugs (check light he said before recovery he wouldn’t feel better libido on mdma, after recovery he felt), and the last question, people don’t feel the prog working because this is a step two a complement.
Tell me what do you think
The idea that we don’t have androgen receptors or they are reduced does not correlate with the current research findings which show that androgen receptor expression in the penile biopsies was actually over expressed.
If it was as simple as not having reduced androgen receptors i think it would be more easily solvable.
The problem likely is therefore past the receptor which is somewhat novel in the medical world and therefore requires research.
We know progesterone is an anti-androgen - meaning it binds to the receptors testosterone wants to bind to but it has also has some androgenic properties meaning it activates some of the androgen responsive genes.
Also as we know progesterone metabolites including allopregnanolone are reduced so increasing progesterone is likely helpful here.
There are a few possibilities and without research we can’t elicit which mechanism is at play. Firstly progesterone itself may activate enough of those genes at higher doses to be helpful. Secondly as i have postulated before progesterone could actually decrease androgen over expression (initially precipitating a mini crash) but possibly by doing so helping to lift the faulty mechanism past the point of the receptor.
This means that it possibly ultimately leads to androgens working again. I say this because there is prior research that shows progesterone antagonists increase androgen expression (therefore speculate reverse is true) and secondly some peoples experiences suggest that using it seems to open that door to androgens that was previously closed in terms of reduction of overall symptoms.
The fact that increasing androgens alone doesn’t seem to do much in us shows that those genes aren’t being activated when they bind to the receptor. The vast majority of us who have such a degree of end gene resistance do not respond and some even worsen. The interplay of androgen receptor and its co-regulators such as p300 and lots of others needs to be researched too as they may be responsible for not letting androgens do their thing.
By increasing testosterone too above physiological levels we also reduce allopregnanolone and this explains the worsening of brain fog and general mental function when some (myself included) try to boost testosterone.
Progesterone also seems to antagonise estrogen and particularly alleviates prostatic discomfort. Noticed this on myself.
Progesterone when I’ve used alone - has an initial boost followed by a decline in energy, sexual function, shrinkage, etc, mentally clearer until i reach a point where androgens are even less functional than before due to progesterones inhibitive nature. Then i become overly sleepy and the fog returns. For those who still believe our condition is permanent I can first hand say there have been a few and only a few occasions admittedly but on this occasions i was pretty near normal. There is hope.
When combined with tongkat ali i can take progesterone for longer without feeling the negative sides as much. Eventually though progesterone does over power the tongkat ali and i find things shrink again.
The real question is what happens when we stop progesterone as some people have reported a bounce back effect where they worsen on the tail end of their treatment and then stop and after a month or so bounce back to a higher baseline than before. Of course this has not happened to everyone.
I have suffered for coming up to 8 years now and have tried lots of things including Xyrem, antibiotics, Clomid, tribulus, tongkat ali, cerebrolysin, IV procaine, sulphoraphane, B12, folate, NAC, vitamin D and more.
The only two things that i can say have impacted the mechanisms at play in a positive way have been doxycycline (which i have now stopped - think it helped alleviate some of the inflammation around prostate - also inflammation itself increases androgen expression!), and progesterone. Vit D, testosterone boosters can only act in a supportive way in my view if inhibiting further their function. Clomid alone does nothing good. I have never used testosterone as my testosterone and DHT and 3 Adiol- G levels were all ok. Prolactin levels have tended to be on the high side.
The progesterone road is rocky and results are by no means guaranteed. I tend to have phases where i improve and then dip back down. I also tend to prefer to be on it as when stopping there is a very uncomfortable 1-2 weeks where it seems like everything goes to hell.
The idea of increasing the dose is a controversial one as depending on each individual some might not withstand the severe anti androgen action of progesterone. Also keep in mind progesterone may increase prolactin levels which further inhibits testosterone. Those that can withstand it might possibly make better gains.
Lastly i just want to mention that the Baylor research study is the FIRST real study that can help us. It is the one that finally looks at the mechanisms at play. Every other study to this point has just been about confirming that our syndrome exists. This one looks at the epigenetics of it all which holds the answers. These ideas and experiences we have are useful to a point but this study could literally change our lives.
For all those in the US and near by i urge you to participate.
I currently have been using the following regimen every morning for the last month and I am seeing dramatic improvements.
Every morning:
20 mg of progesterone
8 pills of calcium glucarate-500mg per pill
4 pills of tongkat ali=420 mg per pill
I am on my 7th year of pfs and this is the best I have ever felt. Everything is almost back to 100%. The size of my penis, balls and scrotum look normal. The firmness and my ability to maintain an erection are also back to normal.
I plan on continuing this for a few more months and then stopping to see if the results are permanent but even if they are not permanent, this is a cheap and simple regimen I can follow for the rest of my life if I need to.
A couple years ago I tried 5 mg of progesterone along with deprenyl. I saw some improvements but my current improvements are much greater.
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That’s awesome, you might like to taper off the progesterone instead of stopping all at once.Plesse keep us updated good or bad
Has anyone followed the original treatment that started the thread?? Using the progesterone Cream with Selegiline pills?
The original treatment is progesterone, macca, tongkat ali, B vitamins and selegiline. Others did the same but without selegiline and got cured. I think selegiline might be good if you have high prolactin.
The problem with the progesterone protocol is that people think it is just progesterone that was my mistake, not anymore.
I’ve been taking the progesterone on and off for about 6 to 7 months now, along with Tongkat Ali, maca powder & I have just added back in the selegiline for three weeks. I feel about the same after adding the selegiline but I’ve heard it takes time. also I am taking higher doses of progesterone, around 15 to 20 milligrams a day, and even as much as 40 milligrams at times
One week on my protocol. The results.
I was waking up with stomach pain, muscle pain, almost throwing up everyday when I wake up. I couldn’t get out of bad when I wake up I was very tired and dizzy. My penis was totally rubber, no erections even in masturbation, could penis, no morning wood, orgasm without any sensation, heavy brain fog, pot belly, gynecomastia.
Now sometimes I wake up with morning wood, not like before PFS, but now I have sometimes which is a sign of recovery. Better sensitivity, better orgasm, now I can get an erection in masturbation, no stomach/digestion problems (when you reach this stage of PFS you have too much estrogen), no more cold penis, better brain fog, reduced gynecomastia (I still have), reduced pot belly (still have).
When I started using the progesterone cream I started to feel pain on my chest. I also noticed when I started to progesterone cream the results started to fade, so I think I won’t use it anymore since many recoveries here didn’t use it and the ups and downs in my opinion is related to removing estrogen.
My protocol I posted in a lot of places. If you want details, my skype is joocar2, or send me PM. But I also need to say, the results are slow and it will depend on how much estrogen you have in your body. One thing is important, try to avoid sugar when you get into the protocol.