Progesterone treatment?


#921

Guys, I have some questions and some things that I’d like to say. First the biggest sign of improvement is ball size, if you notice that your balls got bigger and heavier you will notice more sensitivity in your penis, you will notice less brain fog, more energy, better orgasm, morning wood, night wood, etc.

I think this protocol has nothing to do with progesterone. Because everybody who took progesterone without any test-booster, felt worse. I don’t know if elb got bad again when he smoked weed and drank beer or if it was a discontinuation of test-booster while doing progesterone alone.

When I first used progesterone cream I crashed, I felt very depressed, felt my numbness increasing, no erections (progesterone I think is 5AR inhibitor), my balls decreased in size and I lost some sensitivity, felt no emotions, mind totally numb, the worst brain fog, then I was so desperate that I increased the dosage of my tribulus that I was already taking for two weeks prior I guess, then I was increasing the dosage and I felt the benefits of the protocol, I got great vision, no more tinnitus, no brain fog, personality back, 70% of libido 70% of sensitivity, no more gynecomastia, muscle pumped (I don’t do any exercise), got a masculine face, my jaw changed, no more fatty face. This improvement last for some days and like the guys said on the protocol I got the down, but I got a better base line than before, the problem is, I don’t know if it was the progesterone alone that gave me this down or if it was weed and alcohol like Elb said. But I felt what they called ups and downs, roller coaster ride, also Apr1989 said the same thing, but this is an up and down with an upward scale, so my thinking would be that if I felt another up and down at that time I would get an even better result and after that an even better base line.

One interesting thing that I will look forward is if SERMS has something to do on Estrogen Receptors, blocking them, because beekay said when he introduced tamoxifen and clomid to his protocol he felt even better and gave him results faster. What I think is that the SERMS blocked ER, letting the test-boosters to work more on AR, to produce more AR, because our body doesn’t see difference between estrogen and androgens, the questions is, is it the same thinking related to receptors? If our body knows we have too much ER then our AR will be low, but when we block ER and our body knows we’re lacking something, does the production of AR by test-booster would increase even more? That’s the thing I wanna know. Because I think beekay had good levels of testosterone by taking high amounst of vitamin D, so the logic behind the SERMS would be just what I just said.


#922

there are people who got better of progesterone alone. ive read about 10 stories today of people (3 recoveries) saying that progesterone did something very positive, ihatepropecia even stated that he had the best wood since his crash on a progesterone based steroid and he has tried more than almost anybody on this forum. so we cant deny that progesterone has something to do with this. the research even told us we are lacking progesterone and its metabolites, dihydroprogesterone (DHP) and tetrahydroprogesterone (THP) in our brain. so how can we just ignore that? progesterone has a very important function in sexual health and brain health just look at the research below. low progesterone is even worse for your libido than low estrogen.

bio.utexas.edu/faculty/lizar … yneuro.pdf

  • However, exogenous progesterone can also restore the full complement of sexual responses in some castrated males.
    *Our results demonstrate that minor supplementation of the endogenous progesterone in castrated male rats is capable of initiating the full complement of sexual behavior.
    *These observations led to the discovery that progesterone can facilitate sexual behavior in males
  • Also Debold and co-workers (DeBold et al., 1978) reported that simultaneous injections of progesterone and testosterone proprionate (TP) were more successful (though again not statistically significant) than TP alone at maintaining sexual behavior in castrated hamsters.

But how got our progesterone levels depleted so quickly? a possibility would be that our adrenals got very stressed during the crash or on finasteride. because if you shut 5ar donw you create a big imbalance and you’re body needs more hormones to set off the effects of increased testosterone and increased estrogen so stressing the adrenals, thyroid and the body. that increases the need of coritisol and depletes progesterone and literally scavenged our whole body for it even the brain. altered cholesterol could also play a role in it because it’s needed to make progesterone. During the night of my crash i felt so good, i felt so much testosterone i was about to explde, but also felt a lot of anxiety. the next day only anxiety left, how is it posible to feel anxious from estrogen dominance and testosterone at the same time. if this was as simple as estrogen dominance we had figured this out and our symptoms /condition wasn’t so rare. Women dont feel this way this is worse this is not simple estrogen dominance because else so many woman would commit suicide. this problem is bigger. if we had enough progesterone we wouldn’t have estrogen dominance in the first place. because progesterone keeps estrogen in check. if woman get affected with estrogen dominance their first treatment is progesterone, because it is made for keeping estrogen in check in humans. in woman estrogen levels are higher so they need bigger doses of progesterone, but it works. they dont have the amount of dht to lower estrogen, just progesterone so progesterone is good competition for estrogen else every woman had estrogen dominance. we are in a situation of low progesterone and high estrogen in our brain so we suffer from estrogen dominance. instead of lowerng our estrogen with our depleted progesterone and metabolites that supposed to counter estrogen and got very important tasks in the brain (including regulating gaba, allopregnanole), we are using arimidex letrozole etc to counter the effects. because we are only focusing on testosterone testosterone testosterone. while progesterone is highly needed i think, maybe why small amounts are not workiung is because already progesterone is used for cortisol. in woman they also know about this problem that you get worse if you use only small amounts. the combination of testosterone and progesterone made some guys recover.

  • Estrogendominance is due to insufficient progesterone and therefore there is a low cortisol production.
  • When the adrenals are stressed, the increased need for cortisol depletes the progesterone levels used in making cortisol. As more progesterone is shunted or sequestered to make cortisol, less is available to balance off the estrogen.

#923

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. I’m going to continue with high dose progesterone and then slowly taper off and see what happens, last time I did this I believe I felt much better for a period of time but won’t be sure it was the progesterone until I’m able to duplicate it. Because progesterone blocks 5ar I thought it might be that I had created the PFS rebound and crash effect once I got off of the progesterone. I’ll be updating here and in my new thread.

Would be nice if someone would help test this out but I understand the worry of possibly getting worse.


#924

Pff the three recoveries are light at the end, elb and beekay? If so it wasn’t prog alone.
Deca was the steroid that ihp took, is actually progestin and it reduces progesterone.

One more guy to the list of cured with test boosters: big softie. He said he needed to wait a month to notice. He also said that after stopping he felt a decrease in libido, but better than before and sexual function returned. I would say it was his first up and down with a better base line, like the guys here on this thread.


#925

Are you an autobot?


#926

I think so yes, and prayingtoheal. youre right, Im not saying that people got cured with progesterone alone, but there are about 10 people saying that it had a positive effect for them so we can’t deny that and i dont think that’s strange if the research told us were lacking it in our brains. it is more important in the brain than testosterone because it regulates more neurosteroids/gaba etc. and it is needed for sexual health. it seems that the synergetic effect of progesterone with testosterone has better effect than test or progesterone alone. i think all people who got cured on this forum did not use only one thing but a comprehensive protocol of many components, else we would have known the answer for a very long time. my guess this isnt estrogen dominance alone, because estrogen dominance alone is a problem but our situation is much much more severe. estrogen dominance isn’t very rare and a lots of people who got this do not have suicidal thoughts etc.(the problems we have) there has to be more to it, but it is part of our problem. people respond to anti estrogens just like they do to progesterone (the research about neurosteroids make this logical). there are also couple of people who got better using thyroid hormones, or focussing on the adrenals ( one story i have read even recovered supporting thyroid with hormones ) that makes me think this is a problem that goes deeper than an imbalance in the brain (although the brain makes us feel like we do, so this is the finish line of our problems). the shrinkage problem for example , that many others here got, is in my case from very low body temperature that i got overnight after my crash. so the crash probably fucked my thyroid in one night. think of your dick in a cold swimming pool, it shrinks. i had several small recoveries by just sitting in the sun. this is i think a major endocrinological failure, something in our body keeps us from recovering and it’s not simply addressing one issue in my opinion else we would have solved this. the adrenals are responsible for our progesterone production, so somehow they are not functioning right (probably because of thyroid problems/cortisol), and i don’t think that’s very strange because we stressed our adrenals big time during crash. the thyroid and adrnals are working close together so you get problems there too. also do not think this can be androgen insensitivity, because else people wouldn’t feel anything from testosterone but there are some that do. about deca im not sure, progestin is a synthetic version of progesterone and in big amounts it is used for sex offenders (it is different because natural progesterone do not have this effect), but you could be right i dont know.

-he role of progesterone has been severely underestimated in men. Depending on the stage of a woman’s menstrual cycle, men can have just as much progesterone in their bodies as women. Most scientific studies have focused on the effects of progesterone on women, and its role in men has been neglected. It’s only recently that scientists have started to realize how important this hormone is in men.

-the latest studies suggest progesterone is just as important as estrogen and testosterone. In fact, progesterone is a precursor to both of these hormones (meaning both estrogen and testosterone are produced from progesterone), so it plays a big role in deciding the levels of these hormones. Where guys with man boobs generally have high estrogen and/or low testosterone, progesterone works, in part, by lowering estrogen, and raising levels of testosterone.
Read more: chestsculpting.com/progesterone- … z3NKlP7zUN

-As men age, complaints of weight gain, loss of libido, and prostate enlargement top their list of health concerns. Many physicians and scientists are becoming more aware of a common link between these symptoms and conditions. That common link is often an imbalance between two sex hormones, progesterone and estrogen.
-Progesterone is a key precursor to other steroid hormones, including cortisol, testosterone, and the estrogens (estriol, estradiol, and estrone). When progesterone circulates in the blood, 90% is bound to a protein or albumin fraction. Only a small percentage (3%) circulates unbound.4
-The term “estrogen dominance” describes the condition of lacking sufficient progesterone to counteract the effects of estrogen. A common misconception is that estrogen dominance results only from extremely high levels of estrogen. To the contrary, this condition also may be caused by normal levels of estrogen and relatively low levels of progesterone, or by low levels of estrogen and extremely low levels of progesterone.lef.org/Magazine/2006/4/repo … ne/Page-01


#927

Here is more evidence. A journal article in which dermatologists saw a ton of finasteride users developing Melasma. They theorize a problem with progesteone/estrogem imbalance. Here are 3 articles highlighting this

europepmc.org/abstract/MED/24719069

link.springer.com/article/10.100 … 014-1466-5

sciencedirect.com/science/ar … 1714000548


#928

Wow, all my brilliant theories of 2-3 years ago are now being recognized!! Boooyaaaa!!!


#929

I think I may know what’s going on with me and what I’ve been doing lately and why i’ve seen results.

The picture posted below reminds us that progesterone increases the sensitivity of androgen receptors. Let’s keep in mind that a receptor can either be taken up by estrogen or testosterone, not both ; well if we use progesterone to make those receptors more sensitive but at the same time there is too much estrogen floating around then we just made our body pick up even more estrogen than before we took progesterone which explains why people feel bad on it… But, if you first take free testosterone boosters along with an AI to cut down on the estrogen and THEN take progesterone to make your body more sensitive to hormones, there will be more testosterone to bind to the receptors instead of estrogen and you’ll experience what I have, feeling better all around. I had just completed a cycle with an AI to get rid of some of the estrogen so this all adds up for me.

taking a higher dose of progesterone will make the receptors even more sensitive and also help cut out the estrogen.

So in a nutshell, get rid of excess estrogen, boost free testosterone, then in this window of opportunity use high dose progesterone to re-sensitize the androgen receptors.

I’ll add that I went back on the AI yesterday and today to test and positively felt the first increase in libido any protocol has ever given me.I needed sex yesterday and today again which rarely, if ever happens to me. This won’t mean much to me unless it continues, I’ll keep updates coming,if things happen as they usually do I can expect a crash in a few days.


#930

I enjoyed this, thanks for the info


#931

great thinking brongfogboy. the receptors could be indeed down regulated because of high estrogen in a defence mechanism. plus if progesterone sensitizes the receptors and you got estrogen dominance (what means you got low progesterone), receptor sensitivity is already low. you add some progesterone, sensitivity goes up, so feel worse because of the high estrogen levels.

if you put the three theories (androgen insensiviity, estrogen dominance, low progesterone levels) together you get a pretty logical explanation of our situation, confirmed by research, symptoms and how we feel. because of our depleted progesterone levels in our brain we get estrogen dominance and desentisized receptors. brain scavenged for progesterone because of high testosterone so high estrogen, low dht so more progesterone needed to counter estrogen, altered cholesterol so decreased progesterone production, and disturbed 5ar so decreased progesterone metabolism and its metabolites, dihydroprogesterone and tetrahydroprogesterone plus high need for cortisol(close adrenals/thryoid connection) which also strips progesterone. if our brain cannot even fully detect we are in this situation, how can it restore normal body function. The night of my crash i was feeling a kind of headache, which ive never felt before ( i never have headaches anyway). normally our body protects our brain as last to keep the whole body functioning, if it got drained from progesterone and important neurosteroids somehow, it could dramatically affect dopamine production and change the brain so our whole body. I always had a very clear mind and thinking, but during finasteride use it became worse and when i stopped it ,extreme brain fog/anxiety kicked in, concentration gone, very confused ,sometimes dont even know what to say etc. in one night. but indeed its just a theory. im very curious how youre experiments will go, please keep us updated.

-In another rat study, they mimicked the damage done by a stroke on the brain. Rats given progesterone after the stroke had significantly less damage and had more improvement in function afterward. In that case, progesterone protects the brain and nerves and may even help them regenerate.(13, 21) Progesterone can reduce cerebral edema (21) after an injury too.

-Progesterone can help clear the brain fog. Dr. Collins thinks that one of the signs of progesterone dropping too low is in fact a sense of confusion.(35) One preliminary study showed that postmenopausal women did better on some brain tests when they were on estrogen plus either progestin or progesterone than on estrogen alone.


#932

This all makes A lot of sense, when I used profesterone I defintely felt like I was re-sensitizing the receptors


#933

I think you guys are hitting the center of our problem, congratulations.
I also think that we need to remove excess estrogen, I don’t know if progesterone would do it but maybe os bile or any bile acid should help in this process and I just read that high fiber diet helps to remove excess estrogen.

The only protocol that I felt better was 2 weeks on tribulus low dosage then started progesterone and felt worse, then I increased tribulus because I was desperate, then I stopped thinking it was just the cream that helped me. I think I was wrong. I can say that I felt the up and down and got better right after. My personality returned, my emotions, energy, no more brain fog, no more depression, got morning wood back, better sensitivity in my penis, better orgasm, no more gynecomsstia and reduced pot belly.

I think first we should respond to test-boosters and when our body gets working it will be time to remove estrogen. After each cycle we will have less estrogen, more AR, maybe beekay felt better when he used tamoxifen because it binds to the ER.

If justquitdut is a real person and really commited to pfs, he should stop all hormones and help us here.


#934

male to females inject estrogen too much why dont they experience pfs like symptoms? bcs of low prog/est ratio?

there are nice reads about female to males who are using pogesterone and testosterone…intrtesting…


#935

Progesterone… They give this to guys that want to become girls. I guess you guys are just trying to finish the job. :laughing:


#936

mcbifiboth, Adult males have levels similar to those in women outside pregnancy so i do not think you’re right on that. progesterone is even made by the testicles. sure, transgender get progesterone added to their treatment because of the high doses of estrogen. if they dont do that they havet a much higher chance to get prostate and other kind of cancer and all sorts of other estrogen related diseases. transgender even take it for their libido, but that does not say it is feminizing because they are still men. below something about an endo with 20 years experience.

My endo who is also my gender therapist (she has twenty years of experience with Transgender people BTW) doesn’t believe in progesterone in the treatment of transsexual women. Why? because in her experience, progesterone tends to cause masculinization effects on some women, and hence their estrogen regimen has to be increased to potentially dangerous levels (especially if the patient is over forty years of age)

Progesterone is neuroprotective, and acts as a neurosteriod, reducing oversignaling in the brain and producing a feeling of calm in some women, and helping the nerves to regrow when they are injured. It also reduces the side effects of estrogen therapy such as bloating, mood swings, swelling in the legs, and nausea. Progesterone has been shown to reduce the risk for breast cancer. (i was a very calm person, could not worry about anything. since crash the exact opposite, extreme anxiety read that lots of guys got this)

in woman they already have discovered the great importance of progesterone long ago, probably because of pregnancy, menstrual cycle and so forth what makes it fluctuate a lot. in men progesterone is very steady but declines together with testosterone as men age, so makes it effects much harder to detect and easy to describe the pros to testosterone. men and woman are not alien to each other, we are not totally different robots. in woman it is very important, so why would it not be in men? science is now becoming aware of the importance of progesterone also in men.

according to this video finasteride(dont know if it is based on research) can cause demyelination (journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/ … 00010/full also about a nasal spray that could be interesting

topic ms progesterone thisisms.com/forum/general-d … 15101.html

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15669543

again im not saying this is the cure, but i think everybody that used it got an reaction to it. that must say something and the research tells us we are lacking it in our brains. so why could this not be important, in my opinion its quite logical. this thread has 47 pages even though progesterone has a stigma of being something feminizing. i think that already says something. would be great if some smart guys looked into it, maybe it could explain some of our symptoms


#937

agree with that, high estrogen low testosterone stays a problem, indeed maybe first tackle the estrogen problem. but those are great improvements you had, could be a combination of the two what made you feel better, quite hard to tell.


#938

I had a thought, but I think someone might already be trying if I remember correctly. Does anyone think that DHT cream along with progesterone would be counter productive?


#939

I’m not sure but I think as long as it’s safe then it’s worth a try.


#940

internet is full of it, women experience the same thing and it’s very normal. think this is why some people feel worse when they just started progesterone. also when the receptor is not as sensitive as it should be then of course you will get higher levels of estrogen.