Progesterone treatment?


#901

Stop doing them and came back after 1-2 months, maybe you get better than before taken them.

Greetings


#902

So I’ve been using progesterone for about seven months now and I’ve learned a few things. First off 5 mg of progesterone makes me feel worse. I feel lethargic, apathetic, just all around crappy. What I’ve found is higher doses of progesterone like 15 mg a day or 20 and even 25 mg works very well, specifically when taking testosterone boosters. When you take test boosters it increases your test of course but it also increases estrogen, progesterone helps keep that in check. I just completed a cycle of 2500 HCG every three days for 30 days. Without progesterone it made me feel like crap, with progesterone I felt much better.

Lifting weights used to make me feel really crappy, but when I apply progesterone it washes away the lethargic apathetic feelings. So what I would suggest is testing progesterone with testosterone boosters like Tongat Ali or lifting weights. If at any time you feel crappy rub 5 mg on and wait about thirty minutes if you still feel bad put on 5 mg more and keep going up until you feel better. I’ve found 15-20 mg to be a pretty sweet spot for me but everyone is different.

In short if you are taking progesterone and feel badly you are probably not taking enough. I should also add that I rub the progesterone into my ball sack and never anywhere else.

I’m not a doctor and this isn’t medical advice.


#903

has anyone tried to use bigger doses of progesterone than 20mg? if the estrogen dominance theory is right we maybe need much higher doses


#904

Thanks BrongFogBoy, I wanted to wait longer before posting my experience with progesterone, but I feel compelled to share it earlier. Here is a summary.

My hormonal levels and PFS condition before starting progesterone: - Blood test show Hypogonadism: low LH, low FSH, low bioaval Testosterone, high total Testosterone, high SHBG - High Estradiol, low DHEA - High DHT, very high 3alpha diol G (even Dr Jacobs doesn’t know why) - Progesterone level in saliva test were in range and normal. - Perfect Vit D level (I take 10,000u each day, SeekingHealth drops)

  • Side effects are mostly sexual, no libido, erectile dysfunction with some brain fog

Even if with high DHT, I’m still sensitive to moderate 5ar inhibitors, for example green tea, fish oil after a few days make me feel noticeably worse. I think because of my high DHT level, my scalp can itch even if sexually I feel crap and with no libido whatsoever. Scalp itching is not a sign of recovery for me, actually it’s an indicator of when I feel worse, because I think the estrogen levels are higher. In short, I went through 3 cycles of progesterone: 2 weeks on 4 days off . The brand that I chose is Progestelle because it’s pure progesterone in liquid form, each drop is 0.6 mg, so that it can be safely measured. Here is my recount:

1st cycle - started with 5mg, applied to areas with low fat to avoid accumulation in the adipose tissue: hence applied it to the inner forearms, neck, palms, scrotal sac, and scalp. After a week I was already feeling better, libido was increased, plump penis, relaxed scrotal sac. The voice was deeper, fantastic nocturnal erections and morning wood, a clear effect of prog as an anti-estrogen and raising testosterone in the short term. Less scalp itching. Regarding the application areas, listed in order of the effect felt, from the weakest to the strongest: neck, palms, inner forearms, scalp, scrotal sac (the strongest).

1st break - I guess the decline in prog in your bloodstream occurs gradually, because you feel a sharp difference only after two days , less energy, voice is squeaky, smaller penis, tighter scrotal sac.

2nd cycle - the dose and positive effects were identical to the first cycle. Because of the well being, I started also taking moderate antioxidants, chia seeds, squeeze omega 3.

2nd break - the second break seemed to be slightly worse than the first

3rd cycle - because the second break didn’t go that well, I increased the dose to 10mg, rotating among the usual areas. I felt that the anti-estrogen effect was still there, evidenced by the plump penis, but something was not right, my energy level was decreasing, no morning wood, no nocturnals, more brain confusion. When I applied prog to the scrotal sac I felt even worse, but kept going. I don’t know if it was either the continuing usage of the progesterone, or the omega 3 squeeze (fish oil), that tilted the balance, but after another 5 days I reapplied prog to the scrotal sac, and then bam! My worst crash in two years. It was horrific, second only to the first crash after taking dutasteride. My testicles were retracted and shrunk, horrible feeling. I had to stop after 10 days instead of 14 because I couldn’t take it any longer. I won’t ever apply it to the scrotal sac ever again, I was feeling so bad that I thought I had made no progress in two years, and that was PFS day 1 once again.

3rd break to present - after stopping progesterone I slightly began to feel better, after two weeks some mild morning wood returned. Right now after a month I actually feel slightly better than before I started using progesterone. For full disclosure, since stopping progesterone I also took tribulus for a few days, and after reading mario vitali’s post on dolichol/NOx I also started eating a lot of spinach. I really hope this recent recovery is not the usual prologue to a new PFS crash. If the recovery becomes prolonged and steady I will give progesterone another try.

My take: if you think of PFS as an impairment of the steroidogenesis chain, progesterone does certainly something good, but it can also cause induce a negative feedback due to the effect on 5ar and maybe LH and FSH. As we all know, the neurosteroids affect the body with different time span, as an example think about the inception of PFS: after stopping finasteride/dutasteride we experience a temporary recovery, but because something is broken in the steroidogenesis we crash a few weeks later.
Likewise, the anti-estrogenic effect of progesterone is almost immediate (few days), but the negative feedback is much more difficult to control because it may be due to a cumulative effect of what happened over several weeks.
One of the most interesting posts that I read recently is from RecentQuitter, talking about Dr Goldstein:

In light of Dr. Goldstein affirmation about the altered DHT receptors, it’s unpredictable to know what even a mild 5ar can do to our condition. I believe the effect as enti-estrogens and raising temporarily testosterone is real, but the positive effect could be counterbalanced by its negative effect the 5ar/HPT/steroidogenesis. (I think this is the reason why it is called a “feminizing hormone”). Applying progesterone to the scrotal sac for me was as powerful and unpredictable as playing the Russian roulette, good luck for who wants to try, but I won’t ever do it again. In my opinion, to benefit from progesterone you need to strike a fine balance between the good and bad: anti estrogen vs negative feedback. If you want to try prog, I would advise to start slowly, and don’t be fooled into increasing dosage too fast: you need to be careful as there are side effects that can happen over the course of few weeks.


#905

I think it’s very interesting that you made such progress in such a short time, thanks for sharing. maybe the reason why you gone bad after is because of the thyroid or the excessive estrogen. read this raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr … ries.shtml it’s a lot about women and pregnancy but also some information about the effects on the thyroid and could explain why you had such a roller coaster experience.


#906

Thats a good one dude…restaurant theory. Good name for a restaurant too. Good point. :sunglasses:


#907

I have taken around 30 mg doses in a single day which made me feel better. I believe this only worked for me because I was taking big testosterone boosters so I needed more progesterone to counter the estrogen along with it. now that I am taking less intense test boosters I only need around 15 to 20 mg to feel good. I’ve found it’s key to start low and apply more throughout the day until you feel better, usually in 5 mg increments, too much and you will feel bad, too little and you’ll feel even worse. Two things happen whenever I get the dose correct; my voice is noticebly deeper and I feel all around better, these are markers for getting dosage correct.


#908

isnt progesterone a strong 5ar inhibiter???


#909

I think only on the skin area you apply it. zinc has the same effect 5ar inhibitory on skin. its a very important sex hormone also in men, without it you wont be able to have sex.


#910

hey guys, I’m looking for someone who would be willing to test something along with me. Basically it will be taking a testosterone booster (tongkat ali as the OP did) , with higher dosage of progesterone like 15 milligrams to 20 milligrams per day. I have definitely felt improvement with this protocol consistently. I can even lift heavy weights without feeling awful and feel good after I workout. I suspect it may work even without a testosterone booster, so if you have progesterone and want to give it a try without a test booster then go ahead, but I can’t say for sure as I have never tried it myself. The higher dose has been essential as when I do a 5 mg dose I actually feel bad and sometimes awful. Let me know if you’re interested please, I would like to find out if this works for other people or just me.

Just a little disclaimer, this has not cured me and is only experimental with a chance of allowing you to work out and feel better all around. I have felt no improvement in my libido however. Just want to set realistic expectations


#911

" it is
known to enhance androgen
receptor density in the brain"

examine.com/supplements/Tribulus+terrestris/


#912

“The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.”

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994038


#913

I take progesterone and hcg and don’t notice anything from either


#914

Yes I took 5 mg of progesterone and crashed (completely numb dick) which was exciting since I hit on something. 3-4 weeks later had a massive rebound effect and felt nearly cured. High doses of profesterone is fascinating idea


#915

Sanane: Great arcticle, I will read it. Because this is the thing that we need to fix. Androgen receptor.
Gennaro: Again, great arcticle because it shows that tribulus doesn’t increase testosterone, androstenedione and I suppose DHEA and others androgens too, that’s awesome because it just endorse that its effects on the AR not on hormones.

Huho: That’s interesting because Beekay also tried progesterone and hcg, the different thing in your protocol and his is that he also took pregnenolone and test-boosters, I would say one of these things that made it work, I don’t think it was pregnenolone, but maybe it could be, I just say I don’t think it has a participation because it’s just the next step of cholesterol and then it will become progesterone. Test-boosters may be the interesting thing behind it.

Brongfogboy: Did you feel really depressed when you took progesterone for the first time? The kind of depression that you even don’t want to eat, want to stay alone. Did you feel a really strong calm effect, like meditation of budha? Like being numb mentally/emotionally? I felt this way before I get really better, I would say that my receptors were open and then it made the effect of progesterone really clear to me, like I would really feel progesterone, that’s why I got really numb dick, huge depression etc, and then I increased the dosage of test-boosters I was taking before progesterone and that’s when I felt the up that everybody said they felt. I got down by the progesterone and got up by test-booster (tribulus) I felt perfect vision, no more tinnitus, my muscle pumped (I didn’t change my diet or even lift any weight), my face changed, my beard grew faster, my balls increased (this is a huge sign of recovery, when balls increase you feel all the rest), my sensitivity increased, orgasm better, etc.


#916

Before I forget. I wasn’t feeling cured, but really close to it. I would say I felt 70%
Just had a minor pot belly and needed some more libido. My gynecomastia cleared. The problem that I made the same mistake of Elb, I smoked a lot of weed and drank a lot of alcohol and it got me back to square one.

One other interesting thing is that Beekay took SERMS, it blocks the estrogen receptor (it also can increase estradiol, that’s why people won’t get gynecomastia on a cycle even with high estradiol levels while they take clomid or tamoxifen). Our body don’t know the difference between estrogen and androgen, if your estrogen is high your androgen is low, so I think the beekay protocol also helped his body increased androgen/androgen receptor by blocking his estrogen receptor, so the body thought he was low and then increased the good things.

That’s interesting because many PCT people would take SERMS with Test-boosters, so I think the science behind it would be, blocking the ER (too make the body increase testosterone levels) and also the test-boosters would help the body to increase the AR.

Guys tell me what do you think about I just wrote, I don’t mind people thinking that I’m wrong, but please, be polite.


#917

The very first dose of 5 mg I don’t remember feeling much. After that I typically felt like what you described, emotionally numb but also horrible brain fog and very fatigued.


#918

Hey everyone, I’ve started a new thread for higher dose progesterone logs if anyone wants to give it a go.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10060&p=94581#p94581


#919

progesterone increases sensitivity of steroid receptor. explains why there is an reaction to it every time someone uses it


#920

Yes! Nice find, I had an immediate reaction to it. Next am penis went totally numb which had only had 6 months prior.