Progesterone treatment?

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#641

For those of you on the protocol: What symptoms are you having? Here’s mine at 10 mg all at once during the day:

My voice isn’t as low pitched as it should be, it’s like it’s a “soft” voice instead of a smooth tone.
At times I feel brain fog when I shouldn’t/normally wouldn’t
I can’t speak as fluently as I usually do , this sort of ties in with brain fog.
After running I feel extremely exhausted and wiped out.
Facial hair grows in faster
More oil surfacing on face
Overall lower energy

These are sometimes followed up by a bout of feeling well and energetic. I can hardly wait to get to the off-period of this cycle but powering through and sticking to workouts.

#642

Week 17 - Note, I believe at week 8 or 9 I upped my progesterone dose to 10 mg per day split into morning and night

Had a good week of being completely on the cream, was extremely tired this past Monday, not really sure why probably from too much fun during Friday Saturday and Sunday. Had a huge spike in libido yesterday which was preceded by some very erotic dreams and culminated in spontaneous morning sex (well spontaneous in my wife’s mind :slight_smile:). Brazilian Guy, probably hard to understand with the language barrier, libido is the need / urge to have sex and sexual performance / erections are the mechanics or physical abilities to actually do it, hope that helps clarify.

I Went to a Cross Fit class last night, first time weight training in about ~9 months and was still able to deadlift and squat about 15% less than what used to be my max. This is pretty impressive to me, since I’ve been doing cardio only (swimming, cycling, cross country skiing and running) which should lead to less strength. I’m not going to give progesterone all the credit here, I think the use of prami which does boost Growth Hormone is the main cause.

Brainfog - I noticed you mentioned lack of energy and increased facial hair growth. I experienced those same exact side effects. I shaved yesterday morning (double edge razor blade, baby butt smooth) and by 5pm had a hipster mustache going. During the first 2 months of using progesterone I often just felt drained by about 6 or 7 pm, I think it had something to do with lack of sunlight / vitamin D, I wonder if this will pick up once summer / sunlight returns for you.

#643

isn’t the cream a 5ar inhibitor? From what i’ve read the improvements go away once you stop using the cream?

#644

HopingfortheBest - Hope for the best and stop worrying about if it’s a 5ar inhibitor or not and give the protocol a try. Read through this thread and if that doesn’t convince you, I don’t know what will. If I had an MD instead of an MS behind my name I’m sure you would try it in a second.

#645

I’ve stopped progesterone primarily out of fear that reducing 5ar would mimic what Fin did in the first place.

However, it doesn’t mean I’m against this protocol, only that I don’t have enough information to quell my fears. It appears there are some real benefits to using Progesterone cream in men.

This is a good article about Progesterone use in men: http://www.growyouthful.com/remedy/progesterone.php#progesterone-in-men

And here are my questions which I hope someone could answer by providing some reliable source data:

Did you get your levels of natural progesterone tested BEFORE trying this protocol?
Were your levels abnormally low prior to treatment?
Since Progesterone is a powerful 5ar inhibitor, what evidence exists to show that it is NOT having the same effect as Fin on the group of steroids which rely on 5ar?
Is there a test to determine levels of 5ar or whether our 5ar is performing the conversions as it should?

Here are the downstream conversions which require 5ar:

Aldosterone -> 5ar -> 5a-DHAldo -> 3a-HSD -> 3a,5a-THAldo
(CYP11B2)
Corticosterone -> 5ar -> 5a-DHB -> 3a-HSD -> 3a,5a-THB
(CYP11B1)
DOC -> 5ar -> 5a-DHDOC -> 3a-HSD -> 3a,5a-THDOC
(CYP21A2)
Pregnenolone -> 3B-HSD -> Progesterone -> 5ar -> DHP -> 3a-HSD -> AP
(CYP17A1)
DHEA -> 3B-HSD -> Androstenedione -> 5ar -> 5a-Androstenedione -> 3a-HSD -> Androsterone
(17B-HSD)
Androstenediol -> 3B-HSD -> Testosterone -> 5ar -> DHT

Has anyone asked a doctor about this?

#646

Hopingforthebest:

The point you are missing is that (1) not everything that reduces 5ar does so permanently like propecia and (2) it will reduce your estrogen which seems to be the main problem for most of us…

If you are 70% recovered and feel you want to take your time i understand… But for those who quit fin with no improvement i don t see what there is to lose.

Of course this is not a medical advice, but as a statistician numbers of recoveries speak louder than some half baked theories (which is all what we have). Some people have resorted to very very high doses of TRT, now that can’t be good in the long term can it…

My plan is convince my endo to go for letro+clomid and if that doesn t work progesterone is next…
I know what TRT will do and that is plan Z before i give up…

I do have low androstenedione and waiting to see what the doctor thinks about it

#647

Guys i have a couple questions for those who found effectiveness in this protocol:

  • have you noticed improvement in gyno?
  • have you had progesterone and prolactin levels checked before starting this?what were the measures? When i quit propecis i had over the range prl and prg…
#648

Hypociclist: I know that libido is the need urge to have sex but if you don’t have libido you will not get an erection to have sex. You will only get if you use your hands to stimulate. For example if you have a high libido just to see a hot woman you will get an erection and your orgasms will be more intense.

I don’t understand very well do you guys take the progesterone twice per day at 10mg each time? I was reading beekay post and it seems he did like that but I don’t know about Elb, Gazzaa and Light At The End. 10mg I think it is equivalent to half bump.

When you started to feel anything on progesterone I mean what day it started to work (bad or good). Or is it instanteneously? You apply and feel it at the same time?

#649

I’m using 10 mg a day all at once, I was doing 5 mg split into two but the original poster who was cured was using 10 mg a day all at once. I felt it immediately when I used it and it was subtle, then over days time it became more intense as it built up in my body.

#650

From what I read, the “timing” of progesterone should be felt only the very first days, then as it builds up in the adipose tissue the release should be more or less gradual and constant. Unless ~5/10mg a day is not enough to saturate the adipose tissue. Regarding the suggested dose, I spoke to Doc. Eckhart and he says that there is not much difference from taking progesterone in moderate doses 10mg and higher doses 20mg, he gave me the example that a baby during pregnancy is subject to massive doses of prog (if I remember well he said 300mg). So the reported adverse effects to doses larger than 5mg may be just related to the sensitization of the estrogen receptors, rather than a supposed overdose of prog.

#651

What I read in another post of one guy who got cured is that he felt depression using progesterone.
Do you guys felt depressed? Another guy told me that mood was all over the place and numb dick got worse. Now please what does it means, is it depression (mood all over the place).

#652

Mood all over the place = mood changes frequently.

In other words sometimes happy and then suddenly sad, then bad mood, then good mood…

#653

My doc told me that progesterone is NOT an 5alpha reductase inhibitor…
Why are some people saying it is, who is right?

#654

Week 18- Holy sunburn. While none of you probably care that my Norwegian/Irish heritage promotes sunburn unlike anything else I want to point out a trend / possible interaction I’ve noticed with Progesterone and Vitamin D / sunlight. The times I’ve felt the absolute best while on progesterone have coincided with prolonged periods of being outside in the sunlight. In the winter, either from walking around / snow shoeing or cross country skiing for extended periods of time near solar noon. Time spent in Orlando in mid march and more recently being outside and running, walking, cycling or kayaking. This past Sunday my wife and I went for a 3 hour paddle on the river and both ended up with severe sunburn. On Monday I felt GREAT despite my skin tingling. I also worked from home on Tuesday and sat outside instead of inside and felt great Tuesday night and Wednesday. I see a pretty good connection between natural sunlight and progesterone because I’ve never experienced the big swings like this while not on progesterone. I take 5000IU of vitamin D daily and haven’t found that to do much of anything, but exposure to natural sunlight definitely helps me personally, YMMV.

#655

Thanks for the continued updates hypo. As for me I’ve completed three cycles now and am going to have to take a break for about a week because I have some important meetings this week and can’t afford the brain fog. I do feel like I’ve been sleeping better but my sleep wasn’t really bad to begin with. You still taking 10 mg a day split into two?

#656

Why you people don’t use also pregnenolone with it?

#657

I don’t take progesterone but this is pretty interesting note as I’ve noticed that regardless of D-vitamin intake, whenever there is sun here (it’s not on all the time, plus the long dark winter months) I feel better on those days. Likewise, when I was in mediterrain for holidays last year, just about that time for the longest time I felt the best… I felt some weird need to stay outside in the hottest time of the day, when everyone else including the natives avoid the sun. My symptons are pretty stable but I got some slight manly things (increased facial hair growth, little more energy, little more sexual drive) going on for me during that time.

I always assumed that it’s either D-vitamin or increased temperature in body (hypothyroidism?) or idk, cortisol adjusting but this has made me think about whether there is some kind of mechanism going on here that is unknown or whether any kind of supplied D-vitamin really works (I know it does for spstriken and i think he uses regular synthetic form).

#658

I had thought the same thing about the sun as well (not saying it isn’t true) and bought a 10,000 lux light and kept it on at my desk for long periods of time for a couple of weeks. I didn’t notice much of a difference but then again it didn’t have UVA and UVB rays.

Sometimes the sun does make me feel better and other times it doesn’t, I think it’s this way for everyone. The sun causes an increase in testosterone levels so you would feel good for 2-3 days but then if your body levels out those levels with more estrogen to get back to homeostasis then you go back to feeling the same.

#659

I don’t want to turn this into Vita D3 discussion, i was going to make the post elsewhere but seen the above discussion:

I have been taking D3 once a week and noticed it helps, I upped the dose to 15000 and noticed it helps even more. The two days after it I feel less numbness and more energy, less brainfog.

If you google you will find people have taken D3 about 50000/DAY for MONTHS! I am not sure this is good, but there is a book about it on amazon with good reviews.

I recommend the SUN + some D3. I don’t go out in the sun because of sunburns and moles…

is there a discussion on this…?

#660

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