Makes sense to me. I definitely think GABA is one of the main factors in PFS. When I took Phenibut, which is basically just dumping GABA into your brain, I was totally recovered for about a week. When I took bromocriptine which (and I could be wrong) reduces GABA, my brain fog got so bad I had moments where I couldn’t read.
The study only states there is an increased GABA-A expression 9-12hours after withdrawal.
After that period,indeed, the study doesn’t cover what happens, but from the anecdotal evidence about progesterone use in our forum, I would say there is a chance that the changes in GABA-A expression are permanent, as the body gets closer to its natural balance.
There’s some studies saying that SSRI’s induce a permanent desensitization in 5HT1A receptors, so definetely, the brain is not as plastic as they make us believe…and maybe it’s possible that the GABA-A upregulation sticks around in our case.
The upregulation/downregulation/huge upregulation described that study mimics how most seem to react to progesterone. You feel a little better then you really feel like shit then you go into your break period and feel awesome.
Danny, Allopregnanolone is thought to regulate HPA as well…depression is also linked to reduced allo, and as you know, its also connected to libido reduction… remission of depression is linked to a normalization of the HPA.
I crashed massively on it, penis went numb the next day, hadn’t had numb penis in 8 months before that. No doubt it sensitized estrogen receptors and I got worse, now two months later I’m almost back to baseline.
look, that info may be useful.
how long did you take it and did you withdraw it accutely?
did you feel better on the first dose?
how did you feel on the subsequent dosages?
how much did you take?
Took 5 days, 10 mg nightime application, got worse each day and then stopped after 5, I have been slowly coming back online after 2 months
ok, I don’t see yet how to correlate this data but maybe in the future we can do it.
I honestly think it would be such a good idea to make a questionaire for people to answer on treatments they tried and how they have felt…and not only that but also about PFS and pre-PFS symptoms.
Week 9- My four day off period thursday through Sunday wasn’t as bad as previous ones. I still had a return of urinary symptoms but that didn’t happen until Sunday and this was also after a night of drinking many beers. Dreams have toned down, but I have been having trouble sleeping since I got back from my business trip to Florida, i don’t think I’ve slept long enough to reach the dream state much. In regards to the hair question, no change. Beard and body hair growth has increased though.
Hypo, I had very bad urinary problems about a year ago (had to wake up to pee at least three times every night). Are you taking any vitamins or minerals at all, specifically Vitamin C, Amino Acids or Iron supplements?
Yep, vitamin d 5000iu, vitamin c 1000mg, magnesium 800mg and dim 100mg.
I’ve noticed when I take Vit c at 1000mg it increases how much I have to piss where Iron was the major culprit. Just as long as your conscious of it you may start noticing it’s correlated to that, or it could be something different of course. May try and get off the C for a few days and I don’t know what “dim” is. I hope you figure it out
Week 12 - Nothing really new to report in terms of how I feel on progesterone. I went to the chiropractor on Saturday because my neck hurt so bad from sleeping wrong or not swimming with correct form (not sure which one) and haven’t slept very well because of it (3 to 5 hours per night). Since today marks 3 months on Progesterone I’ll give a quarter year rating on my experience.
Progesterone + Pramipexole definitely has an effect on our condition, both neurological, sexually and physically. Neurologically I’ve noticed increased dreaming and more drive to do things and get things accomplished both at work and in my personal life (for instance figuring out a system to rack up frequent flier miles to take trips for free in the next year).
Physically I’ve noticed increased facial hair growth and decreased body acne, not much in terms of muscle loss or growth, I’ve stayed around the same weight the entire time. Unlike light I haven’t been doing any weightlifting, instead I’ve been doing cross country skiing, running and swimming and soon to be cycling once the temp reaches above 40 degrees. I know some one will point out that I’m on thyroid meds and that could be why these things have changed. Wrong, I’ve been on thyroid meds for years and do have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis (autoimmune). The progesterone is definitely making a difference either by finally activating the thyroid meds or finally opposing estrogen. I will note that as a 28 year old I often get mistaken for 1)A high schooler 2)Someone who isn’t 21 yet and don’t have a very masculine body type.
The main physical issue I’ve been struggling with is urinary frequency. This protocol has definitely helped that though not 100% but it’s given me the most relief. I don’t have to plan ahead if I’m going to have an hour long meeting at work or drive long distances. There’s still some physiological issues I need to work on with this since I’ve struggled with it for how many years now and I’m used to just “having to go” on a frequent basis.
Sexually, I’ve had an increase in nocturnal erections and an increase in erections overall when its time to perform. I still don’t have much brain-penis connection except during sexual situations but in those situations everything have been working fine and that’s a huge relief. I still don’t have the “I need to bang something” feeling that I used to get after however many days (or hours) of not getting any. Sexual improvements are still good though.
Some side effects, I’ve noticed I get sleepy very easily, usually around 9-10pm and can now fall asleep very easily. This is good and bad, but since I usually only get to see my wife for a few hours each day, it’s annoying to not be able to stay up and feel like an old man. I haven’t noticed many other side effects besides the dehydration I previously reported and the vomiting incident from overdosing the prami.
Since I’ve been on this for 3 months I’m going to take a 1 week “holiday” from the protocol including all other supplements except for thyroid (since I need that to live ). I’ll let everyone know how the week goes and if I plan to make any modifications for the next three months of treatment next thursday. Feel free to ask questions or PM. Have a good weekend and enjoy the NCAA tournament with friends!
Has anyone who had good result from progesterone done genetic testing? like 23andme?
There is something going on with progesterone receptors i think. Also, i cannot understan
Why some people experience recoveries and others get strong adverse effects. I believe people
Who experience the positive effects from prog, have somehow re-established neurological routes on the brain. Actually that is what prog does, it is broken down by 5ar2 to neurosteroids. Maybe this stimulation has a positive effect to wake up neurosteroid metabolism, and also sensitize the receptors.
About the other people who get heavy sides, i believe that they simply crash hard, and might get new side effects from this. There are some users in this thread who fell into this situation.
Another interesting aspect is that the people who got better also reported slight drawbacks and mini crashes. This has to be discussed in more detail imo.
THANK YOU GUYS!!! It’s hard to describe how much I appreciate you guys for sharing so much information, and in some cases with incredible detail. And some are even comical, like the guy who described his stool size and how he had to push.
I started using Progesterone for about a week, then stopped for a few days. I noticed being quite emotional again, crying about missing my family and going through a divorce. So last night, I started using it again. I slept much better, woke up feeling better, not emotional or sad. So now I’m determined to stick with the protocol and ordered the other items recommended in this thread; DIM, Pregnenolone, Zinc gluconate and another tube of Progesterone.
On my calendar, I blocked the 4 days between the 2 week cycles to remind me of the OFF days. Will do this for 5 or 6 months.
Question: I keep hearing about Ups/Downs on Progesterone. Could someone describe what they mean by ‘mini crash’ or what the specifics are about the bad days? Which symptoms are noticed and which area? (ie; Sexual, Physical, Mental/Neurological)
Based on my own short trial of Progesterone I noticed I wasn’t depressed, had more energy, actually did some things around the house and no brain fog. When I stopped Prog, I spent most of last week staying up till 2am to 4am, trouble getting to sleep. Then depression and isolation put me on the couch where I would curl up and sleep with the TV on. I even lost motivation to go to the gym last week which was strange, because I had been going nearly 6 days a week for the past 4 months. My joints hurt and I pulled something in my shoulder at the gym, so it’s limited my ability to lift. I even lose interest in eating.
So now I’m back on Prog and working out daily. I’m also on the Methylation protocol, Prog Protocol, almost Paleo diet and exercise. I avoid sugar, but I use splenda or honey (should I avoid these also?) I avoid gluten, but have the occasional bread, or burger or sourdough toast on cheat day once a week. I don’t drink milk anymore, but I do eat cottage cheese, cream in coffee/tea and small amounts of cheddar. I guess it’s more like a Paleoish diet.
Positives to note after 4 years in recovery (2 years of actively trying out treatment methods):
Sex function is back. Nocturnals, volume and size are back to normal.
Mental/Cognitive function has improved dramatically. Lumosity training daily shows a great upward trend of progress.
Physical function is improving considerably. Fasting helped me lose the belly and handles. But it seems my muscles aren’t building or bulking as expected. I’m in better shape and stronger, but unable to gradually increase load lifts. But injuries have set me back from trying too much. (shoulder tear, bicep tear, cracked rib) Ugh.
Depression is still a challenge but I have to credit a divorce for this setback.
For you guys who are still married or have a girlfriend who is supporting you in this struggle, please tell them I said to hang on, keep hoping and helping, and that they should be proud of themselves for staying the course. [virtual hug to the girls]
Question: I keep hearing about Ups/Downs on Progesterone. Could someone describe what they mean by ‘mini crash’ or what the specifics are about the bad days? Which symptoms are noticed and which area? (ie; Sexual, Physical, Mental/Neurological)
Have you ever had a bad period where you felt alright, or at least stable, and then over maybe a week or so you got into a really crappy period? Like you could feel it coming on, feel yourself descending into it, and then things were just pretty shitty for a few days? It’s like that. At least for me. Then you go into the break period and it’s like the first day after the fever breaks when you have the flu. That’s the bounceback.
THANK YOU GUYS!!! It’s hard to describe how much I appreciate you guys for sharing so much information, and in some cases with incredible detail. And some are even comical, like the guy who described his stool size and how he had to push.
I started using Progesterone for about a week, then stopped for a few days. I noticed being quite emotional again, crying about missing my family and going through a divorce. So last night, I started using it again. I slept much better, woke up feeling better, not emotional or sad. So now I’m determined to stick with the protocol and ordered the other items recommended in this thread; DIM, Pregnenolone, Zinc gluconate and another tube of Progesterone.
On my calendar, I blocked the 4 days between the 2 week cycles to remind me of the OFF days. Will do this for 5 or 6 months.Question: I keep hearing about Ups/Downs on Progesterone. Could someone describe what they mean by ‘mini crash’ or what the specifics are about the bad days? Which symptoms are noticed and which area? (ie; Sexual, Physical, Mental/Neurological)
Based on my own short trial of Progesterone I noticed I wasn’t depressed, had more energy, actually did some things around the house and no brain fog. When I stopped Prog, I spent most of last week staying up till 2am to 4am, trouble getting to sleep. Then depression and isolation put me on the couch where I would curl up and sleep with the TV on. I even lost motivation to go to the gym last week which was strange, because I had been going nearly 6 days a week for the past 4 months. My joints hurt and I pulled something in my shoulder at the gym, so it’s limited my ability to lift. I even lose interest in eating.
So now I’m back on Prog and working out daily. I’m also on the Methylation protocol, Prog Protocol, almost Paleo diet and exercise. I avoid sugar, but I use splenda or honey (should I avoid these also?) I avoid gluten, but have the occasional bread, or burger or sourdough toast on cheat day once a week. I don’t drink milk anymore, but I do eat cottage cheese, cream in coffee/tea and small amounts of cheddar. I guess it’s more like a Paleoish diet.
Positives to note after 4 years in recovery (2 years of actively trying out treatment methods):
Sex function is back. Nocturnals, volume and size are back to normal.
Mental/Cognitive function has improved dramatically. Lumosity training daily shows a great upward trend of progress.
Physical function is improving considerably. Fasting helped me lose the belly and handles. But it seems my muscles aren’t building or bulking as expected. I’m in better shape and stronger, but unable to gradually increase load lifts. But injuries have set me back from trying too much. (shoulder tear, bicep tear, cracked rib) Ugh.
Depression is still a challenge but I have to credit a divorce for this setback.For you guys who are still married or have a girlfriend who is supporting you in this struggle, please tell them I said to hang on, keep hoping and helping, and that they should be proud of themselves for staying the course. [virtual hug to the girls]
When you say your sexual function has returned, are you able to have sex when you want with a normal refractory period?
When you say your sexual function has returned, are you able to have sex when you want with a normal refractory period?
My answer is specific to the ability to get aroused, masturbate and verify the semen volume and penis size returning back to normal. I have not had sex with anyone but my wife in 22 years, so I couldn’t really say whether intercourse would be any different or how long it would take for refractory period. I suppose I could test this by masturbating and then going for a second time as soon as physically possible…
I’m actually trying to avoid masturbating and porn. But when I indulge its usually because I sense a need for pressure relief. And I don’t get down or depressed or fatigued afterwards like I used to.
I should have mentioned I’m going through a nasty divorce thanks to Propecia. So it’s impossible for me to test sex function or experience with a partner. I’m nowhere near being ready for another woman in my life. Still grieving over losing my wife and family.
By the way, Propecia side effects are at the center of my divorce case and defense. I fully intend to utilize the records from my divorce case in the Merck litigation.
No amount of money is worth losing everything I love and worked so hard to attain. How can anyone place a value on losing 11 years out of the prime earnings years, losing a career, wife, kids, possession, health, legal costs and emotional suffering???
Propecia is not the only drug causing carnage either. I think the Big Pharma execs involved, and those in the FDA should be sentenced to taking the same drugs they created or approved for a specified time frame as part of ANY settlement agreement.
How else will there EVER be a deterrent from making and approving drugs that kill or maim?
Having to shell out a small percentage of profits has OBVIOUSLY NOT been a deterrent.
What’s the penalty for murder? Causing a suicide is the same as murder imo.
I have to agree. I wasn’t going to comment until I had a couple of months done, but I’ll chime in after three weeks on progesterone. First, mentally I am better. I went from worrying about my condition 24/7 to almost back to my old self…I’m engaged at work, and am much more social. Its hard to imagine this change is all placebo/natural recovery…it just seems so linked to initiation of the prog protocol. Its harder to say if there have been the same improvement in sexual function, especially since I’m not in a relationship at the moment. I may be feeling a little more libido, but I still have that “genital nothingness/numbness” feeling. I’m going to have my phone interview with Irwin Goldstein on April 11th, I’m going to fill him in on the progesterone regimen and see what his thoughts are. Maybe the sexual sides will follow the improvement in mental/motivational/fatigue side effects over time.