I think the speed at which progesterone works is directly related to how much estrogen dominance you have (no I don’t have any medical or scientific data to back this up at the moment). If your ratio of estrogen is way out of whack I think progesterone takes longer give relieving effects as it lowers the estrogen ratio. In my case since I had been on DIM previously and my estrogen ratio was probably a little closer to normal (though still not normal) than many others so the progesterone had less to balance and the other feel good effects of it were noticed more quickly. Just give it time, I do think you will see some results.
Thanks for the updates HypoCyclist. You mention estrogen dominance and ratios: are there any websites that help decipher if you have problems in those areas. I can’t really find anything solid regarding this. Maybe we can really just go by symptoms? Also my levels don’t look horrible other than lowish T and DHT. Progesterone smack dab in the middle. I’m beginning to realize you can only look into the numbers so much…
I think you’re right by saying you can only focus on numbers so much. If the numbers were all that mattered then those of us with adequate test numbers good estrogen numbers etc would feel fine. I’m not saying numbers don’t matter, they do, but I don’t think we know which numbers to focus on and what they need to be at yet (could be neurosteroids, could be spinal fluid numbers, semen, etc, etc). I generally go by symptoms for estrogen dominance, I’ve had my estrogen #'s tested and didn’t see a difference in symptoms between being at 21 and 46, I think as long as test, estrogen, DHT and Prolactin (probably others too) no matter what the numbers we won’t feel right. I hope the PFS research helps us find what numbers to focus on and then we can all experiment and move on from there. Happy to give updates and provide any other discussion. As far as websites go, I’ve found a lot of great info on stopthethyroidmadness even though they mostly talk about female ratios the effects of of balance hormones are usually the same. The one that convinced me to use Progesterone (I think I linked it a while ago) talked about men with enlarged prostates restoring normal urinary function after rubbing progesterone on their wife’s for HRT. I’ll see if I can find it again.
But isn’t an enlarged prostate from excessive DHT? Depriving it shrinks the prostate, and probably the reason why progesterone would have the same effect.
DHT could be one culprit another one could be excess estrogen. Progesterone inhibits and balances both hormones. Since prostate issues are a relatively new phenomenon in human evolution I tend to think it has more to do with the excess estrogen’s and xenoestrogens we encounter in our everyday lives vs DHT, though I’m not ruling it out. I see progesterone as a balancing hormone in the male body and the reason why it works at least as a remedy for us.
Crucial mistake people make is that estrogen dominant DOES NOT mean high estrogen, it means unopposed estrogen. In other words, there is not enough progesterone (acting as progesterone) to oppose the estrogen.
Just completed two weeks of 5mg progesterone (split into two doses) a day with 2.5 mg Drepenyl, Maca, Tongkat Ali…I haven’t had all the bad effects everyone else has been having and really think this is one of three things
Everyone else has been dosing too high since it’s difficult to measure cream
The OP said he was taking 5mg when he was actually taking closer to 10 mg a day
Splitting the dose into two instead of all at once helps keep a balanced flow of progesterone instead of it being high in the morning lower at night
I haven’t really noticed much positive that I can put my finger on…I do feel a little better but it feels like I did when I was on Tongkat Ali by itself and wasn’t taking progesterone. I’m not done yet, not even close. I’m going to take four days off like Light’s protocol suggested and then get right back on, meanwhile I’ve e-mailed him with a picture of the amount of progesterone I’m taking every day to see if it looks similar to what he was taking. I may end up increasing my dose but for now I’ll be patient and just continue the protocol exactly as it’s stated.
my log is here:
Yeah I can see the reasoning in that. Finasteride supposedly worsens prostate cancer despite it’s intentions, so you’re probably right about the estrogenic effects.
I recently started the protocol as well. I have been doing:
- Progesterone 5 mg cream once daily.
- Pregnenolone 50 mg daily
- Cycling T boosters ala CDnuts protocol
- Took three doses of 2.5 mg deprenyl however after every dose I would get a pretty back headache and blurry vision so I’ve stopped.
I have been doing this regimen for a little under two weeks. I have to agree that mentally I do feel better. I’ve noticed that I’m more motivated to get things done at work, to be more social, and to exercise more. Even in the face of the new reality of PFS, I’m strangely not feeling as negative as I was feeling before the “Light” protocol. Anyone else feel that way?
However, if anything I have worsened sexually. Genitals have same level of numbness. No huge improvement in ED or libido. Its takes me a little longer than I remember to ejaculate. Is that a progesterone side? That being said, when it does happen, its pretty powerful with good volume (haven’t had that in a long time). Wondering how this compares to others’ experiences.
Anyone improve mentally before improving sexually? Are these two different pathways?
Thanks guys. This site has really been a huge help throughout all this.
meridianvalleylab.com/clinical-s … -reductase
I found info at the above website that says progesterone down regulates 5 alpha reductase activity and that DHEA up regulates it. Just wanted to throw it in the discussion.
Thanks for the info, but at what level does it inhibit it? I’m doubting it’s at the same level as propecia. I think protestorne can inhibit 5ar reductase, but that it only does it to balance estrogen where as propecia does it regardless and hence the brutal side effects.
After reading through this thread again I want to point out that Light’s protocol said 5mg but he later stated he was taking half a pump which is 10mg - I have increased my dose to this and am starting to feel changes.
to all the people who use progesterone without pregnenolone.
how does it affect your hair? increase shedding thinning?
Week 9- My four day off period thursday through Sunday wasn’t as bad as previous ones. I still had a return of urinary symptoms but that didn’t happen until Sunday and this was also after a night of drinking many beers. Dreams have toned down, but I have been having trouble sleeping since I got back from my business trip to Florida, i don’t think I’ve slept long enough to reach the dream state much. In regards to the hair question, no change. Beard and body hair growth has increased though.
I never noticed hair change on the cream, but mine was already destroyed by Fin so it would be hard to tell either way.
I don’t think anything will reduce 5 alpha reductase to the level propecia does. But I still think continuing to take anything that can reduce it at all is a really bad idea for any of us. I guess it just depends on are own personal experiences. Take mine for example:
I take dustasteride when I’m 22 for a month with no problems at all.
I take saw palmetto at 26 and experience most of the pfs sexual symptoms along with muscle
wastage that never went away.
I take saw palmetto again when I’m 29 ( 5 weeks ago) and experience digestive and sleep issues.
Saw palmetto is deff not as powerful as dustasteride but I know for sure that in my case after taking a prescription strength DHT inhibiter that when ever I take anything that reduces DHT I experience terrible reactions.
I’d like to call your attention to this study i just found
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16879715
Title: Changes in expression of the delta subunit of the GABA (A) receptor and in receptor function induced by progesterone exposure and withdrawal.
This could be the reason why progesterone dosing and sudden withdrawal is working for some…and it has nothing to do with Progesterone receptors but in fact with GABA-A receptors! And they even refer finasteride!!!
This is why Administration and Sudden Withdrawal of Progesteron may work!
And this is why Alcohol makes us feel better as well, because it is a positive modulator of GABA-A Receptors!!!
Guys, could this be the missing link? This makes sense!
what is exactly the protocol you are following?
Apparently 6 days of administration is enough and then just suddenly withdraw it! Probably repeat it until you get better!!
This probably even works better with Allopregnanolone as it has been show (but not progesterone) to be consistently reduced in PFS and Allopregnanolone as said in the study above: mimicked the same effects as progesterone.
How would inhibiting 5-AR balance estrogen?
Well you supplement progesterone, it converts via 5-AR1 to 5-alpha metabolites (such as 3alpha,5alpha-THPROG) which we know have a positive influence on neurosteroids and the CNS.
That study effectively suggests by doing us it will upregular GABA receptors for 9h-12h post-withdrawal. But what after then, and how would this effect sexual function?