I haven’t talked too much about using prami in this protocol and Sunday evening had one of the worst experiences ever. I accidentally double dosed it (forgot that I had taken it already when going to bed), and ended up vomitting everything I ate that day between 2am and 9am (luckily I had previously scheduled a work from home day on Monday). Just a word of caution, be very careful with prami, even upping the dose 12.5 mg by accident totally screwed me over. On the bright side I lost about 5 lbs 
. I felt fine around 2pm yesterday and haven’t had any additional side effects, I did not dose prami Monday evening. New progesterone cream seems to work just as well as the Kokoro, similar effects and actually seems like it moisturizes a little better.
can anyone explain why you’re doing this other than the fact someone has claimed to have recovered from using it.
is the assumption that it opposes estrogen? what if you already have stable levels of estrogen?
i just cant get my head around why it’s sensible to supplement a femnizing hormone. i’ve tried it myself out of desperation, but there doesn’t seem to be any logic or scientific reasoning behind any of this.
In addition to this ‘light at the end’ actually had normal free testosterone, high E2 and high prolactin. I don’t think this is very characteristic of PFS patients, but in his case Deprenyl would decrease prolactin and progesterone would oppose the E2. There is a logic in that and I can see how he’d recover from it’s use, but the rest of us? Again, I doubt many on here have within range free testosterone, and there is a frequency of already elevated progesterone in plasma.
That said, this post by Finatruth sounds well thought and I could get behind that. I went through the same experience of ‘Mal De Debarquement’, which I definitely feel is down to a fluctuation in hormones.
And although I now have high progesterone, I’d speculate I had all the characteristics of low progesterone prior to PFS.
And here’s an article on the cortisol-progesterone relationship that may be relevant.
Again, I’m not trying to argue with anyone, but would like if there was discussion rather than pure faith based on anecdotal experience.
Maybe you can get finatruth back in here to explain. He’s made several posts on this topic and explained the theory revolving around progesterone several times in different threads from what I understand.
Has anyone tested the 5-AR I metabolite dihydroprogesterone? It’s the DHT equivalent to Progesterone.
We know Allopreganolone is reduced so presumably Propecia inhibits both type 1 and 2. In which case you’d expect dihydroprogesterone to be low.
I wonder if there’d be benefit in supplementing low dose dihydroprogesterone instead?
Can you explain DHT equivalent to progesterone? Interestingly the Italian studies did find similarities among the three patients with regards to low levels of dihydroprogesterone.
Well yeah essentially 5-AR II are the enzymes that convert testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
Equally 5-AR I enzymes convert progesterone to dihydroprogesterone.
So although finasteride is listed as a 5-AR II inhibitor, there’s reasonable evidence to suggest it inhibits type I as well. Otherwise, why would Allopregnanolone be so depleted in PFS paitents? It’s a direct metabolite of dihydroprogesterone. The question is, why wouldn’t this return to baseline after quitting Propecia?
Regarding progesterone receptors. Here’s an article that suggests blocking them actually increases androgens massively;
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18399827
Six patients had stable disease for a median of 5.5 months. After 1 month, adrenal androgens were increased and testosterone and DHT increased by 91% and 80%, respectively, compared to baseline.
Mifepristone had limited activity in patients with CRPC, and stimulated a marked increase in adrenal androgens, testosterone and DHT. We hypothesise that inhibition of glucocorticoid receptor by mifepristone resulted in an increase in adrenocorticotropic hormone and subsequent increase in adrenal androgens, and that their conversion by tumour cells to testosterone and DHT probably limited the efficacy of mifepristone. These data emphasize the continued importance of alternative androgen sources in AR signalling in CRPC.
If you feel comfortable and have any amount of confidence then would you want to start testing it? I’m to the point to where I think everyone should be testing supplements / hormones (carefully, after some research) and reporting back to the results. Everyone here is one treatment away from a cure we just have to find it
I’ve started my log of this protocol here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8846&p=79689#p79689
will be following it as stated.
Week 7- Aside from the double dose of Prami on Sunday night and the horrible effects from that I outlined already it’s been a great week. Continued to have vivid erotic dreams at night, but still little change in conscious sexual desire. Performance in bed is still adequate to good. What I’m missing here in the sexual department is that need to “just bang”. Physically, body acne has decreased with only one or two small pimples on chest and no where else, no huge eruptions like I used to have. Beard growth is still way higher than I’ve ever experienced before, almost like a “second puberty”. Worked out everyday this week but Monday and kept up with my friend who is an active steroid user while XC skiing this morning for about 5 miles then he finally dropped me and left me in the dust (snow). Going to Orlando for a conference this weekend and most of next week, hopefully the vitamin D and sunshine will lead to more good effects.
I’m not confident at all, and am still unsure whether my blood levels reflect progesterone dominance or estrogen dominance.
That said I agree with what you’ve said, and have already experimented with a entire catalogue of drugs;
Estrogen/Androgen agonist (Tibolone) - worsened sleep, no other effect.
3B-HSD inhibitor (Trilostane) - no effect but probably more harmful than beneficial.
3A-HSD inducer (Etifoxine) - helped lessen anxiety, no sexual improvements.
GHB
Naltrexone
Androhard, Proviron, Masteron, Nolvadex, Aromasin, Letrozole, Valproic Acid, Methoxetamine, Memantine.
Then a whole host of legal herbal and vitamin supplements.
Progesterone antagonist is a risky decision. Given what Finatruth speculates, it should worsen our condition or else yield no improvement. Equally, receptor antagonists raise blood levels like how Clomid increases estradiol. So given my progesterone levels are already elevated, how would it help?
However, I am willing to trial it. Unfortunately I have no source for it and have little idea where I would obtain it. It’s only use in conventional medicine is for abortion, but I’ve not seen it on sold on the black market or via international pharmacies.
If someone has a place where I can get it though, let me know and I’ll report back.
Seems strangely inconsistent. DHT is implicit with both acne and beard growth, so it’s odd to see one increase while the other decreases.
Estrogen is also responsible for acne. It’s all about balance, don’t focus on the effects of just one single hormone. Otherwise all we would need is dht
I’ve been on 5 mg a day (2.5 morning, 2.5 evening) for five days now and haven’t really felt anything. I’m starting to wonder if people are doing higher doses…attached is a picture of 5mg of progsterone from Biovera. I did one full squirt (20mg) and split that in half, then split it in half again to get 5 mg. I take half of what’s in the picture (between the dime and the quarter) twice a day to keep the progesterone balanced instead of a roller coaster. For those of you who have taken it, does this look like less or the same compared to what you’re taking?
Looks similar to what I take twice per day now.
Interesting because Light’s protocol was that he was taking a total of 5mg a day and you’re taking twice as much. I’m going to continue the 5mg a day because so far it seems to be having an effect (strong nocturnal erections) but might move to 10 mg a day as you are.
I don’t notice a big difference in the increased dose sexual but urinary symptoms improved.
If progesterone is going to work for you it’s not going to be measured in days, but weeks and months.
True. I was expecting to be feeling something (good or bad) by day 7 (today is day 7) as if I remember correctly most people started reporting effects in the first week. I’m definitely not losing hope, I’m prepared to do this for several months.
Week 8- Sorry about the one day delay. No real changes to report. Had some facial acne return which I think came from the increase in Vitamin D (hence increase in test, then increase in conversion to estrogen, etc) and the use of sunscreen for 5 days while in Florida. Going off routine for 4 days now and will start back on Monday. I usually have a return of urinary symptoms when off, so we’ll see if that trend continues or if it improves at all. Physically I feel good and strong. Went running while in Florida and usually can’t go more than 2 miles, I did three no problem. Had delayed onset muscle-fatigue the next day buy besides that it felt like normal to do, could be from all of the XC skiing I’ve been doing lately too. Hope all of you are doing well and a happy St. Patty’s day on Monday!