- How did you feel before starting? Every day was a struggle. I suffered from extreme brain fog, anxiety, memory problems, emotionally blunt and ED problems.
- What did you take? I take and continue to take 100 mg of Testosterone Cyp weekly and 10 mg of Tamoxifen daily to control estrogen.
- How long did you take it? Still take it currently and at 40 years of age I have made the commitment to take it the rest of my life.
- What did you feel while taking it? I wish I had done it 2 years and 2 months sooner. It took about a month before I started to notice improvements. Ten months later I am 99% back to my regular self.
- How did it affect your symptoms? It took care of the majority of my symptoms. I do sometimes have trouble with remembering words in general conversation but for the most part, that is almost resolved as well.
- Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results? My total T was 250, Estradiol was 55 and DHT was 25. On TRT my total T runs between 601-800, Estradiol is 22 and DHT is 52.
- Would you take it again? Yes, I will never stop taking it.
- What is your conclusion? For those of you who have gotten better naturally, God bless you. I tried for 2 years and 2 months of pure hell and doctor visits only to never return to normal. I finally asked myself, do I want to lose more quality of life because of a horrible mistake I made in taking Propecia? The answer for me was simple, hell no. My only regret is not doing it sooner. I lost so much weight on Propecia and all the muscle I had was gone. In 10 months, I have put on 12 pounds of pure muscle, and I am back to running marathons again. My sex life is great, which now my wife says she needs a break instead of the other way around. My confidence is back, memory is better and I still get a little tongue twisted at times but that has also been improving. I know that TRT is not for everyone and it may not have the same effects on others as it did with me. I can however say that it is hands down the best thing I could have done based on the situation I was in. I now feel I can provide for family, play with my kids and enjoy being me again. I wish that for everyone who has suffered as a result of Propecia.
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How did you feel before starting?
Felt like crap, no libido/wood.
What did you take?
My TRT also consists of hydrocortisone and armour thyroid. The hydrocortisone allowed me to feel “normal” again and destress me enough to have sex, although i have PE. I then went on vitamin d which increased my test levels due to improved LH i guess, and had an amazing erection but it died off due to high estradiol. Then tried arimidex to counter my high estradiol which worked but i am a bad responder to arimidex, total T went to 679 and E2 to 24. I am now taking 3 grams of Testogel and 2x250 ius HCG.
How long did you take it?
I am now taking this three months. First 1 gram, then two grams with HCG added, now on three grams.
What did you feel while taking it?
Mentally after applying the gel great, but still bad wood. The bloodwork showed low testosterone but high DHT, high conversion to DHT.
How did it affect your symptoms?
It did not help my ED, libido somewhat improved, fatigue gone short after applying then drop again. No morningwood past three months.
Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
Before: total T 15, estradiol high and low free T, adiol G low
After: total T 8, estradiol normal and free T low, adiol G low
Would you take it again?
I am bloodtesting 23rd of March and week or two after that switching to Test injects every week or twice a week. I will not take this gel again.
What is your conclusion?
Testogel has not done squat for my ED which is my main concern, due to high conversion to DHT keeping my total T low. I need injections to get a somewhat normal sex life back.
How did you feel before starting?
Crap. Had improved with time from an horrific crash which gave me the usual sexual sides plus muscle loss, twitches, insomnia, loss of appetite, severe fatigue. Sleep and concentration improved but still had no libido, stiffness, general weakness.
What did you take?
Testogel 5g per day (1 sachet) as finally prescribed a year after quitting.
How long did you take it?
On and off three months but with gaps
What did you feel while taking it?
Nothing, nothing at all. I wasn’t expecting much but hoped for even a slight initial boost.
How did it affect your symptoms?
No change that I could really notice. Even tried rubbing in two or even three packs and still no difference.
Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
Test was 16 (scale 9-28) which seemed moderately respectable while at that time I was losing muscle fast. Maybe I had high test levels before this going by secondary sexual characteristics, or maybe free t was low (wasn’t measured). Anyway I was shaving less and losing body hair.
A further test came out at 12 (10-32) which convinced my uro to try TRT.
No results after TRT but uro said they were well within range.
Would you take it again?
Might try clomid then injectable T, likely off my own back. Also want to fully check adrenal/thyroid profile and treat that if required.
What is your conclusion?
I probably don’t have much sensitivity to androgens going by my symptoms and lack of response to testogel, plus the fact that I had the classic ‘crash’.
I’m still willing to try TRT injections at maybe higher doses to see if that yields any results.
Failing that I’ll dip my bollocks in the Lourdes grotto.
guys please post here your experiences with DHT and testosterone replacement.
Yes this thread is very important! If you’ve tried TRT or DHT supplementation let us know how you got on!
Low libido, blunted emotions, a little depressed. The few months preceding my going on trt were actually some of the best since my crash.
Androderm either 2.5 or 5 mg daily, I think it was the 5mg patch but it was a long time ago and i can’t quite remember, I want to mention that i sometimes doubled or even quadrupled dosage (against my doctor’s advisement) without noticing a significant difference.
1 month solid in 2002, then completely quit for about six months, around six months after that I met a girl and tried double and quadruple dosages on “some” days that i was expecting to see her (a double, triple, or quadruple dosage about once every two weeks).
Noticeable improvement in mood and slight increase in libido for the first two weeks, then the positive effects wore off and i became very lethargic/fatigued compared to before i started. Quit after about a months use.
I felt better initially, then it began making some symtoms worse. Over the next 4 months I was very depressed, tired, and completely lost the urge to have sex. Everything seemed to return to baseline around 6 months after the last dose of the initial treatment period. I felt that my emotions and sex drive came close to completely returning maybe 2 or 3 times in my life during 2-3 hour intervals over a roughly 24 hr period following my random triple/quadruple dosages.
These results are from a blood test taken within a month before I started trt (the endo was reluctant to prescribe it)
I do not have the reference ranges available. I lost my insurance soon after obtaining the prescription, so i do not have any during/after lab reports.
Testosterone - 535 ng/dl
% Free T - 2.39
Free T - 128.0
Probably not, but I might consider it again if I began feeling much worse and my testosterone tested below range.
I went on trt fully believing my sex drive, erectile function, emotions, imagination, energy, acne, body odor, scalp oil, appocrine sweat, and general love of life would all completely return.
With the exception of a short-lived improvement in mood and libido during the first two weeks of the initial treatment, and a few spikes in libido and emotional capacity after taking a super high dose, TRT did nothing to substantially improve my condition. I have recently tried testosterone drops which are supposed to provide a short-term “spike” of testosterone, these also did nothing to help me.
I have honestly had better luck with my symptoms randomly lifting for short periods of time than I had with trt.
I do not believe androgen therapy will work for me and refuse to try any long term hrt out of fear of it shutting my natural production down.
How did you feel before starting? Terrible. Extreme penile shrinkage (50%), fatigue, nearly no libido, depressed, completely apathetic, losing muscle and gaining fat rapidly.
What did you take? .5 cc of Testosterone cypionate twice weekly injected sub q per Shippen.
How long did you take it? About three months so far.
What did you feel while taking it? Would feel some hot flushing in my face after injections. That was about it.
How did it affect your symptoms? No changes. Mild worsening over all possibly. Obviously I have testicular atrophy now.
Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results? I didn’t take blood test at peak dose. About a week off (maybe 1 shot of .5 cc in the 10 days prior) I had bloods that looked about the same as Post Fin crash. Testosterone 700’s, Free T 140. One thing to note was before TRT my IGF-1 was off the chart high. Post TRT it was below range.
Woud you take it again Tough question. The docs all perscribe it for me but it the only thing I have to show for it is testicular atrophy even while taking hcg concurrently. There seems to be more evidence for its potential harm than good.
What is your conclusion? I don’t feel TRT is addressing the root issue for me.
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How did you feel before starting?
Muscle wasting gaining abdominal fat, brain fog, loss of concentration, chronic constipation, spontaneous morning erections slight, loss of sensitivity-
What did you take? 3. How long did you take it?
Testogel for 8 months, then Androtardyl injections for last 9 months, Growth Hormone for last year -
What did you feel while taking it? 5. How did it affect your symptoms?
Morning erections good again, extremely strong on starting GH, now erections back to just good. Nothing else has changed -
Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
Before, Testosterone: 4155 pg/ml (3000-10000), Estradiol: 57 pg/ml (<30), ADiol G: 4.24 ng/ml (3.4-22)
After 5 months, Testo: 5233 pg/ml, Estradiol: 12 pg/ml, A Diol G: 45.62 ng/ml
I then stopped Tesosterone for a while and afer 10 months Testo: 2962 pg.ml, Estradiol: <10, A Diol G: 5.18 pg.ml
Am awaiting latest blood test results but I’m expections Testo to be up again and A Diol G as well. -
Would you take it again?
Resumed TRT but am about to stop now and just continue with a little Arimidex for while -
What is your conclusion?
All the Testosterone converts to DHT (A Diol G) in my case, this results in quick increase in hairloss and increase in body hair. But no effect on muscle loss at all.
Maybe the AR’s in the muscle have become resistant to Testosterone
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How did you feel before starting?
ED, numb penis, muscle wasting, chronic fatigue, problems concentrating, no libido, anhedonia, anorgasmia, ‘brain fog’, lowered body temp, watery semen, lowered fertility perameters, ‘poo pellets’, eyesight problems, increased abdominal fat, etc, etc. -
What did you take? 3. How long did you take it?
Tamoxifen 2 weeks; DHT gel (Andractim) 1 week. -
What did you feel while taking it? 5. How did it affect your symptoms?
Everything felt slightly worse using tamoxifen - the small amount of libido I had (1%) dropped to 0% so I stopped. I then felt a little bit better then back to normal.
Rubbed the DHT gel into my chest (at x2 dose and then x3 dose) and felt nothing. Rubbed it into my penis and it may of made my penis feel even more numb.
- Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
Before tamoxifen:
Testosterone 13 (8-27)
LH 3.8 (1.8 - 8)
FSH 5.9 (1 - 10)
Oestradiol 84 (28 - 156)
SHBG 19 (17 - 50)
After tamoxifen:
Testosterone 14.4
LH 4
FSH 5.9
Oestradiol 76
SHBG 30
No testing done whilst using DHT.
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Would you take it again?
No. My libido never recovered. -
What is your conclusion?
I feel worse after increasing androgens - even when rubbing DHT directly it into my penis. In fact I believe that experiment may have led to increased fibrosis/smooth muscle atrophy. Maybe the return of 5aR/3aHSD has somehow irritated my nerves which is further irritated by increasing androgens leading to no response or even more numbness and other problems? God knows.
I’ve taken 12.5mg of proviron each day for the last 10 days. It helps a little. More ejaculate volume for sure, slightly better erections.
I’m sure 25mg would help even more.
I don’t take 25mg though because i already have high DHT so i don’t want to make my hairloss even worse; i doubt it’s a cure!!
Proviron certainly made me feel good, but nothing spectacular. It would definitely be a good anti depressant!
How did you feel before starting?
Terrible. Depressed/ sexual side effects were bad.
What did you take?
Proviron
How long did you take it?
5 days
What did you feel while taking it?
Small sexual desire boost/ slightly better erections. Very good mood.
Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
No
Would you take it again?
Possibly, if I am after a temporary boost in mood.
What is your conclusion?
No real conclusion to be drawn.
guys please update this thread.
I used Testosterone, AI, HCG all in different combinations and amount for 5 years, with only results in slight mood elevation and lessened muscle wasting.
…
1.) Non-existent libido. Non-existent nocturnal/spontaneous erections. Penis is disconnected/dead but still works for urination. Can ejaculate if I force myself to masturbate. No pleasurable feeling accompanying ejaculation.
2.) Testim gel 1%. One 50 mg tube applied daily.
3.) 27 days.
4.) Not much different, felt a bit more tired/fatigued after applying it the first few times. I got body acne on my shoulders and upper chest where I applied it.
5.) Not at all.
6.) Had blood drawn 5 days before starting, and 21 days in. Results are posted in my bloodwork thread.
7.) No, if I ever do consider TRT again I would probably go with the injectable version.
8.) It didn’t work for me. I ended up with lower testosterone levels and shutdown FSH and LH.
Does anybody know of ANYONE who has PERSISTENTLY improved ALL of his symptoms using ANY kind of androgen therapy (TRT, DHT, HCG)? I would love to see a little more feedback in this thread, this is one of the most central questions we are dealing with at the moment. The impression I get from this forum is that NO ONE has persistently improved his symptoms on TRT. I am not sure if my impression is right or wrong, that is why I need more feeback. While talking to certain doctors, some claim a high success rate with TRT. Of course, there may be some professional bias here. After all, if the word gets around that TRT mostly doesn’t work, then that would be bad for business.
I would be very interested to hear from any cases that got persistently better on TRT. By persistent, I mean the effect lasted for at least 3-4 months.
Thanks!
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I can’t think of any I have seen. I think Dr Shippen and Crisler used to claim that they had helped some PFS guys…but now claim the opposite.
where?
Yes, two people. And I have read every post on this forum.
JeffO, the ninth post in this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3250&p=20196#p20196. And Dustin, who has now deleted his posts but took very lage doses of test plus cialis (but the effects of both seemed to wear off after a few months and has been cycling them.) Dustin is/was a regular contributor and believable.
Funnily enough, other than that the only people to see ‘some’ persistant benefits seem to be 40 and -JN-. Both of whom had very bad side effects to start off with. Both of whom are former patients of Dr Crisler.
I think it speaks volumes that there are no more successes with TRT. Although I might just add that the ‘PFS-docs’ wont know if a patient has PFS or just wants some T.