*** Post your experience with androgen supplementation HERE (DHT / TRT) ***


#1

[Size=4]If you have personally tried any form of TRT (inections, gel, capsules) and/or DHT supplementation (Andractim, Proviron, Masteron), please post your experience here.

Please supply us with following details:[/size]

  1. How did you feel before starting?
  2. What did you take?
  3. How long did you take it?
  4. What did you feel while taking it?
  5. How did it affect your symptoms?
  6. Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
  7. Would you take it again?
  8. What is your conclusion?

[Size=4]Thread policy:

This thread is for reporting personal experience with androgen supplementation and for overview purposes only.

Posts which do not adhere to this policy will get deleted.[/size]

If we start cluttering this thread again with discussions, the purpose will be defeated.

If you want to discuss the user experiences being posted here, do it in another thread. Thank you.


#2

I’m taking or have been taking, among other things, TRT, Masteron, Andractin and HGH

[*]How did you feel before starting?

No libido, fatigue, brain fog, lack of resting sleep, no spontaneous erections, very few morning erections, erections with intimate contact, but with seldom enough rigidity or duration to engage in full sexual intercourse.

[*]What did you take?

The full treatment can be found here: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … ght=jairus

The basis of the treatment in what refers to this questionnaire is:

Period A) Testogel 10% 2,5 grs daily increased to 3gr,s daily during a week

Period B) - Testogel 10% 1.5 grs daily + arimidex 1/4 5 days a week

           - Andractin Gel on my chest and testes

          - Masteron: 4 shots in 9 days, around 460mgs in total (while not on andractin)

          - HGH: 0.15 mgs.

[*]How long did you take it?

Period A) Testogel, 3-4 months, a week on 3mgs daily

Period B) Testogel and arimidex: 1.5 months

           Andractin Gel, 2.5 grs on my chest daily; 2 weeks twice daily; 6 days on my testes.

           HGH: 3 weeks so far

[*]What did you feel while taking it

Period A) Same as before, no improvement except a bit less fatigue. Also noticed more oily skin and had massive acne all throught my back. At the end of this period I improved fatigue and mental concentration, but it might not have been due to testogel, but to increased gym activity.

Period B) Noticeable improvement in energy levels and mental focus. Better mood. Libido starts to appear for the first time, but not enough to get an spontaneous erection. More frequent nocturnal and diurnal erections. Often enough rigidity and lasting erection when aroused; enough to have full intercourse with a patient girlie.

          Having less acne in my back, but still getting an uncomfortable dose, plus ugly lasting acne marks. 

          Pseudo-gynecomastia: no improvements so far with andractin gel.

          Masteron: no improvement. Maybe too high dose, short time using it, and / or concomital use of arimidex, driving estrogens too low

[*]How did it affect your symptoms?

See above

[*]Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

Yes. See here:

[*]Would you take it again?

I would start with HCG / clomid to try to boost my testo levels rather than go directly into testosterone replacement.

HGH I would take again

Andractin, its too early to answer.

Masteron: if things dont improve in the coming 2 months, I will try proviron first supervised by a doctor, and if it works, I will give masteron a chance.

[*]What is your conclusion?

Try testosterone replacement after HCG / clomid

Be supevised by a doctor, endo or antiaging preferably.

My small libido and erection improvements may have been due to either andractin, arimidex (lowering my estrogens) or / and HGH. I personally think lowering estrogens accounts for most of the explanation, as well as intense workouts in the gym.

I believe HGH works in the medium / long term.
As for andractin, I cant really tell, but I am sceptic about it improving my libido/E.D.


#3

I am going to start off this thread by providing a brief overview of my own personal experience with supplementing androgens:

1. How did you feel before starting?
I was actually on TRT WHILE I was on fin (Testogel for around 6 months before starting fin and while on fin, Testoviron injectable for 8 years before that). So I know very well how TRT is supposed to feel. Testoviron is very well balanced, gave me 110% drive, healthy aggressiveness, good mood and nice muscle mass. Testogel has a noticeably stronger conversion to DHT and made me more aggressive and slightly bloated (estrogen). I once, before fin, rubbed in two 50mg bags instead of one and did this for two days. I almost went through the roof and couldn’t stand it. Staying on that dose would have probably made me kill someone. It was almost like 'roid rage. Testogel, however, is useless for muscle mass (because it converts too heavily to DHT and does not allow for high testosterone values). I by far prefer Testoviron from every point of view. Plus it’s less of a mess.

I was at about 20 nmol/l T while on Testoviron and at around 12 nmol/l on Testogel (averages). Despite the large difference in numbers, I did not feel very much different except what I mentioned above (+ quicker erections). I was living for years at barely 10 nmol/l (without TRT), which went pretty much OK although it wasn’t perfect. Nevertheless, I was building a good career at the time, met my wife and had kids (all before TRT).

So the first message to everyone: You do not need sky-high test values to be able to perform and have a normal life. There is a very common misconception on this board that everybody needs to be in the top third of whatever androgens to get an erection and have libido. This is BS! Hormones are very much individual and your body can cope with a surprisingly broad range. Possibly some of you guys were already in the lower 50% before fin and just never knew it. Having said that, fin did permanently lower my own T production, that is a fact too - one which I have documented.

Then I started fin for a little over a month. That nuked my system and I quit (you can read the long version of this with all the symptoms etc. in my member story). My “recovery” lasted only a couple of days and then I crashed. I couldn’t sleep anymore, was somewhat depressed, ED, and above all was loosing muscle at an incredible rate of roughly 1lb a week. My muscles were hurting so bad I could hardly walk.

Before fin I used to have a distinct, somewhat difficult to describe, sensation in my body after rubbing in Testogel. While on fin, this sensation rapidly vanished. Testogel was increasingly starting to feel like nothing, like rubbing in hand cream or something. Even with two bags I felt nothing. I once even tried three. Nada.

My doc told me to stop all hormones for a while, which is what I did. I started to feel better in every aspect but was still loosing muscle. Because of this, I decided to go back onto Testogel.

[b]

  1. What did you take?
  2. How long did you take it?[/b]
  • Testogel 50mg/day supplementation for around 6 months since taking fin
  • DHT supplementation (Andractim) for about 3-4 months in total
  • Proviron supplementation for around 5 months
  • Testoviron for over 2 years since fin and 7 years before fin
  • Creatine (itself not an androgen, but it raises DHT substantially)

[b]

  1. What did you feel while taking it?
  2. How did it affect your symptoms?[/b]
    Quick take of the story (detail, see my member story)

Going back onto Testogel was a huge personal mistake, despite blood assays at around 5 nmol/l after fin (no TRT). Testogel brought me back up to 8 nmol/l again. But it was making me very slowly feel worse. It was a little like the proverbial frog in a pot on the stove. If you turn on the heat, the frog won’t jump out because the temperature rises so slowly that it doesn’t notice (haven’t tried this). My condition was getting worse so discreetly that I long didn’t realize how much it had deteriorated. Only with about 4 months retrospect did I notice how much worse I had been doing compared to my crash just after fin. Every symptom had gotten worse. Besides the now life threatening depression, I was getting an increasingly painful gyno (a burning sensation on the chest, like if someone had poured acid onto me - incredibly painful). I still have this today, only less than before.

At that point I went through all the thoughts that many of you guys are going through. I thought I had too much estrogen (despite historically low figures of 50 pmol/l) and took Arimidex, which did not really help me feel better. Then I began to suspect a 5AR2 deficiency and got myself some Proviron. That helped my chest pain a lot, but only for a couple of days. The positive effect needed increasingly high doses and later didn’t even return at over 10 pills a day! I was going through Proviron like cookies. Needless to say, it cost a fortune and only made me feel worse. I needed something more powerful and then turned to Andractim. Miracle, my chest pain was resolved and I even had a good sensation in my penis. Unfortunately, the positive effect vanished in the same way like it did for Proviron. In the end, I was going though a 80g Tube in 3-4 days. I still have about 20 tubes of this stuff stashed away. My DHT was 50% over reference (3.0 nmol/l). Again, I was increasingly feeling like shit. By then I changed from Testogel to Testoviron. Started doing massive dosages of up to 600mg/week. Tested with over 52nmol/l and well controlled estrogen values (79 pmol/l). Had a short improvement of about a week which vanished as well.

[b]

  1. Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?[/b]
    I am averaging T at about 15 nmol/l at the moment (over 30 at the time of injection, around 10 at the end of 2 weeks). My estrogens have always been under 100pmol/l in the tests that I did (so under 50%). I find this level of TRT to be an optimal dosage for me (maybe even a little too high). And you know what? Since I have been running on low dose Androgens, I have recovered to roughly the point I was before starting Testogel again, after the initial crash. Maybe at this rate I will even recover further. In absolute terms, my situation is still pretty shitty - nothing worth posting in the recovery thread. But relative to how I was doing while od’ing all those androgens, I feel much better.

Short anecdote about Creatine (re-post from another thread), which fits in here: Since last October I was supplementing Creatine. Since then, I got increasingly depressive, got muscle cramps, shrinkage, penile pain, anxiety - basically the whole works. I then realized that Creatine increases DHT by reading a thread in this forum. Three weeks ago I immediately quit taking the stuff. Since then I have gradually “recovered” to the point I was before taking creatine. I feel like a new born.

[b]

  1. Would you take it again?[/b]
    Low dose TRT (I am currently on 70mg per 2 weeks!): YES (but only Testoviron)
    High dose Androgens for an extended period: NO!

[b]

  1. What is your conclusion?[/b]
    Latest after the trial with Andractim I had to face the reality that I am dealing with some form of acquired androgen resistance. There simply is no excuse for directly supplemented DHT to not work. I rubbed it in all over. No way that 5AR deficiency can explain this. Since I was on TRT, down-regulation was not a valid explanation. LH/FSH were practically zilch with me since ever anyhow, so that wasn’t the reason. Estrogens were under control and Arimidex didn’t make a difference either. I even tried Aromasin which made things even worse.

This leads me to the following conclusion:

The path is simple: DHT > Receptors. Nothing in between - no 5AR2, simply nothing. If that doesn’t work, the receptors are “dead”. Period. There is no other possible explanation. And forget about Adiol-G.

By “dead” receptors, I mean some form of androgen resistance (by whatever mechanism). It feels like this resistance is somehow dynamic (see the repeated “fade” I experienced). I don’t want to start a theory discussion here, but a possible explanation could be that our body is producing some form of anti-androgen protein, perhaps to mimick fin. Proteins are actually a common form of receptor regulation.

My negative experience with Creatine is further evidence in my eyes.

My experience with androgens is why I started this thread, to hopefully get certain people to reconsider their position on 5AR2 deficiency and Adiol-G:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3251

If you are interested in learning more about what possible theories could explain our acquired androgen resistance, this is the thread to read:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2216

Let me be clear: That we have become androgen resistant because of fin is a fact. The exact reason why is currently theory.

Let me also be clear about a second fact: We are obviously all affected to different degrees. I would say that my case is pretty bad. Some of you guys may be much better off. That means that your “residual” sensitivity to androgens can well be higher than mine. It is very well possible that some of you may benefit more from TRT or possibly even DHT supplementation than I did (dangerous in my opinion).

If you want to verify this yourself, talk with your Doctor about trying out Andractim for a couple of days. That’s enough to find out how good or bad your response still is. Alternatively, you can try Testogel for two or three days. If you don’t get a very quick and clearly positive response from this, forget it. Don’t let any Doctor, no matter how good his reputation, talk you into trying it for a couple of months if it doesn’t work. Or you will likely regret it. Common medical knowledge is not much help in our case, so don’t expect a doctor to know the answer to this.

[Size=4]Guys, what is the most likely thing that happened when we quit fin? DHT started coming back after about 2 weeks.

Remember what happened after those 2 weeks? Think about it[/size].

Reference ranges:
Testosterone: 12.0 - 35.0 nmol/l
Estradiol: < 160 pmol/l
DHT: 0.1 - 2.0n nmol/l


#4

How did you feel before starting?

Low libido, ED at most times with the exception of (occasionally) 4 to 6 AM, anorgasmia, frequent fatigue

What did you take?

Started with Testim half tube at ~ 13 mg, did not care for smell. Went to a different doctor who prescribed bioidentical T in a liposomal cream from a compounding pharmacy, with some chrysin added
. No smell or clothing staining from the latter.

How long did you take it?

About a year.

What did you feel while taking it?

Minor lift to libido, reduced fatigue,

How did it affect your symptoms?

some help in combating ED, no help w/anorgasmia… Increased dose (even as little as 5 mg shift) would always reduce ED.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

8 AM total serum T without topical TRT was 150 to 300. Got to a peak of a little over 500. Would need to check through some prior blood work but do not recall estradiol getting out of control.

Would you take it again?

No. I found I had to keep inching up the dose, 15 mg, then 20, 25, 30 in order to feel a physiological effect. Would tweak it up on the weekends to show my lady a good time. Got to the point several months into it where I was replacing the majority of my daily T need (50 mg or so for most men, equivalent to two tubes of testim)

Final straw was significant testicular shrinkage concomitant with the higher doses, with anorgasmia still strongly evident. Found that just being able to function (no ED) without much desire, or reward, was very disconcerting and dismaying. It spurred me to research secondary hypogonadism treatments which eventually led me to somewhat better treatment.

What is your conclusion?

I have also tried clomiphene (see My Recovery Via Clomid thread in Recoveries section). Clomiphene restores a more natural pulsatile testosterone secretion pattern. Topical T just comes through in one long wave, not the way our bodies were designed to work. As detailed in the referenced thread, I had a period of a couple of months where I finally had some moderate libido and good function, but it was at clomiphene dosages that drive T to 800-1000.

I remain concerned that many things both the group and myself try lead to a change in our hormonal mileu - we feel better for periods of weeks or maybe a couple months. Then our bodies “correct” and return to a post fin like state.

Spspriken and others, please leave this thread for responses to the survey that awor is conducting. If you feel a need to discuss, start another thread with reference (link) back to this one. Please don’t clutter this thread up. Thanks - kazman


#5

How did you feel before starting?

Generally okay after 3 years of slow recovery. Major sides are low energy low genital sensitivity, low libido.

What did you take?

Testogel 50gm at 10%
Also tried another gel at 20% wich made me feel like absolute shit!

How long did you take it?

longest period was 3-4 weeks.

What did you feel while taking it?

If i apply it correctly (spread out the gel enough) i get very high libido within a couple of hours. Also feel abit sluggish in my head. Also get chest pains and enlarged prostate.

How did it affect your symptoms?
Sexually possitivly, other symtoms not much.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

The only blood i draw on the gel wasent different in Total T or free T than previous bloodtests. I did have higher estrogen tho. I also think that the T i had in my blood was usually higher than the day of the tests cause i had 1 day of not beeing on the gel prior to testing day that i applied the gel on.

Would you take it again?

Sure. I have a prescription and some at home, dont take it tho.

What is your conclusion?

Something is not right with my hormones. Testogel alone only fix part of problem. Maybe estrogen, maybe something completely different.


#6

How did you feel before starting?

loss of libido, ED, no energy, abdominal fat

What did you take?

First time: Testogel
Second time: Testoviron

How long did you take it?

Testogel: 1 month

one year later: Testoviron 3 months

What did you feel while taking it?

just an increase of energy and power (when i was training in the gym). A lot of acne. No libido. No improvements in ED.

How did it affect your symptoms?

as above.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

On testogel i haven’t took any blood test, about testoviron i put here the before/during/after

Before:

[March 2007:]
Testosterone: 2,84 ng/ml ----------> range of th laboratory(2,41 - 8,27)
LH: 3,37 mU.I./ml ----------------> range (2,0 - 12 )
FSH: 3,43 mU.I./ml ----------------> range (1,7 - 12)
Cortisol: 243,8 ng/ml ---------------> range (50 - 250)
E2: 65,12 pg/ml ---------------> (5,6 – 40)

[June 2007]
FT4: 1,11 ng/dl --------------------- (0,70 - 1,70)
TSH: 1,89 mcUl/ml ------------------(0,25 - 5,00)
Cortisol: 260 ng/ml -----------------(50 - 250)
ACTH: 50,1 pg/ml -------------------(< 46)
Testosterone: 4,03 ng/ml--------------(2,41 - 8,27)

[August 2007]
E2: 13.42 pg/mL -------- range (11.00 – 43.90)
Testosterone 2.96 ng/mL ------ range (2.84 – 7.99)

Here are my exams 3 days after the last injection of testosterone (250 ml of testoviron):
E2: 68 pg/mL ------------------------------------------Range of the lab:(12 - 41)
Testosterone: 17,89 ng/mL --------------------------------(2.80 - 8)
Free Testosterone: 50.66 pg/mL -------------------------(8.69 - 54.69)
PSA: 1,57 ng/mL -----------------------------------------------(0 - 4)

Here my exams at the end of the therapy:
Testosterone: 3.67 ng/mL --------------- (range 2.80 – 8)
Free Testosterone: 14.95 pg/mL ---------(range 8.69 – 54.69)
E2: 27 pg/mL ------------------------------(range 12 – 41)

Finally, the exams a month after the end of the therapy:
Testosterone: 3.42 ng/mL --------------- (range 2.80 – 8)
Free Testosterone: 9.77 pg/mL ---------(range 8.69 – 54.69)
E2: 22 pg/mL ------------------------------(range 12 – 41)
aldosterone 188.1 pg/mL (range 70.0 - 350.0)

Would you take it again?

No.

What is your conclusion?

External testosterone doesn’t improve my sexual abilities. I feel better but just a little bit of energy and aggressivity.


#7

How did you feel before starting?
I started on December 28, 2009 becouse I was feeling very ill. I wasn’t able to go working and doing my other daily activities. I spend my life trembling on my bed.
I suffered of a strong loss of sex drive and had a weak and nearly impossible erection, with insufficient rigidity and duration. My penis tissue was changed and insensitive to touch, testicular area had reduced and so for ejaculate’s power and quantity.
I was in torment for prostate and inguinal pain, strong loss of fullness and movement’s capacity in the perineal muscles and weak urine flow.
I experimented with tachycardia, muscle twitching to limbs, chronic fatigue, nervousness and impossibility of complete relaxation, joint and articular pain.
Finally I had difficulties of concentration and focusing, less memory and understanding capacity, extreme anxiety, panic attacks and strong depression. Contextually I felt lack of motivations, emotions for life, sense of reality and even troubles facing sun light.

What did you take?
Following dr. Cisler protocol, I begun to take testosterone cypionate 120mg. per week. At the fourth week I reduced the dosage to 80mg. becouse of testicle shrinkage. Since january 24 I started with HCG 100 IU and testosterone 120mg. per week again, but I stopped HCG after five days and then I reduced the dosage of T to 90mg. per week.

How long did you take it?
This is the sixth week.

What did you feel while taking it?
First week I felt nothing. Since the second week I begun to feel a set of important benefits, but also a worsening about sexual situation.

How did it affect your symptoms?
Testosterone, till this moment, has definitely helped all my disastrous symptoms on the physical, mental and nervous dimensions: chronic fatigue has desappeared, anxiety and depression have decreased and I don’t tremble anymore. Even muscle cramps and joint pain have appreciably diminished. Now I have back my capacity of concentration and feel more aggressive and motivated, so I can go to work and do my other activities.
On the countrary I experiment with more and more difficulties about sexual situation. Becouse of Testosterone 120mg. per week, I have lost the low sex drive I had and I feel a complete desensitisation of genital parts, with a bigger pelvic pain and a complete loss of perineal volume and muscular movement.
Following doctor’s indications I toke HCG 100 IU per day. I was feeling well and experimented a little increase of sex drive during the first four days, but at the fifth one I suddenly crashed: weakness, muscle pain, depression, swelling on my face, mental confusion and zero sex drive. So I was forced to stop it and into four days I was feeling better again, even if not like before yet.

Did you have any blood test done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
Six days before starting I did a blood test with these results:

Dec 22, 2009
Type of test Results Range
FSH 2,46 mUI/ml 1,7 – 12,0
LH 2,23 mUI/ml 1,7 – 8,6
Total Testosterone 4,97 ng/ml 2,8 – 8,0
Free Testosterone 6,10 pg/ml 5,60 – 40,00
DHT 486 pg/ml 300 – 1200
3Adiol-G 7,50 ng/ml 3,40 - 22,00
DHEA 7,90 ug/dl 0,20 - 9,80
Prolactin 8,77 ng/ml 3,0 – 25,0
Estradiol 17 beta 24,96 pg/ml <62
Progesterone + 0,70 ng/ml 0,25 - 0,56
Cortisol 211,45 ng/ml 55,00 - 287,00
SHBG 27,9 nmol/l 13 - 71
A.C.T.H. 33,5 pg/ml 7,2 - 63,3
TSH 2,330 mUI/l 0,270 – 4,200
Free T3 5,50 pmol/l 3,10 – 6,80
Free T4 19,38 pmol/l 12,00 – 22,00
Somatomedin C – IGF-1 139 ng/ml 90 – 360

I did another blood test at the end of the third week of testosterone 120mg. (Jan 15, 2010). FSH and LH has gone down to 0,23 mUI/ml and 0,15 mUI/ml; Total Testosterone level has increased a lot (9,37 ng/ml, normal range 2,80 - 8,00) and Free Testosterone just a little (15,50 pg/ml); compared to the past, Cortisol has considerably lowered (85,92 ng/ml) and progesterone too (0,58); Estradiol is instead higher, above the normal range (75,43 pg/ml, normal range < 62,00). The most important datum regards 3-AdiolG level: it has incredibly rised (22,20 ng/ml, normal range 3,40 - 22,00), but my sexual symptoms have clearly got worse.
I did the last blood test on january, 25 and find my testosterone at 8,05 ng/ml (normal range max 8,00) and E2 at 62,44 pg/ml. I have therefore worsened my T/E ratio: it is constantly at 0,12 with estrogens above the high limit of the range, while before it was always between 0,21 and 0,24 with E2 around 0,25 n/mol.

Would you take it again?
I’m going to continue testosterone administration to a lower dosage, hoping to recover my sexual situation before starting. Anyway, if I take external testosterone, I will have to find some form of HCG protocol to combat testicle’s atrophy that I don’t like no way. Is there someone that can give me some advise?

What is your conclusion?
I think that my blood results could deny all the theories about the link between androstenediol glucuronide and finasteride side effects. In the past I had much lower levels of this indicator (see my thread in the section member stories: 40’s nightmare), but felt sexually better than now.
The worsening of my sexual symptoms could be mainly due to a shutting down of androgen receptors in genital area and brain as response to high levels of testosterone. This would not mean that TRT is totally ineffective, becouse it depend from the degree of our damage and from the parts of the body invested: the more our receptors are ruined, the less we will benefit from TRT and response negatively to androgens.
In spite of my opinion that androgen insensivity is the root couse, may be high estradiol could play a role in some finasteride sufferer on TRT, even if not the mainly one. Someone, in this thread and in the forum, says to get some benefits on libido from Arimidex. I don’t know exactly my level of damage yet and so I’m attempted to find a solution without increasing too much androgens, but also keeping estrogens to my normal level (max 0,25 n/mol). At the same time I don’t know which it could be the right dosage of Arimidex for me and I’m afraid to get some trouble more taking orher drugs.
Anyway I don’t allow great illusions to myself and hope only that, if I gradually decrease my T dosage, my body will keep his remaining capacity to be sensitive to androgens.


#8

How did you feel before starting?

What did you take? Androgel

How long did you take it? about 8-10 weeks.

What did you feel while taking it? first 3-4 weeks were very good. felt very energised, high libido, a lot of sponteneous erections just like pre SP but then slowly effects faded away I think b/c of high Estrogen level. I started water in my body especially in my leggs. I felt my leggs heavy hard to walk. Ankle swelling b/c of water. I also got big boobs but they have gone back after stopping.

How did it affect your symptoms? In the start definitely improved but later on effects were not that strong. also my tastes shrank that I did not like at all.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results? yes. after coming off my LH and Total T fell down. LH went from 4 to 3 (1 - 9 range) and total T downed from 31 to 29 (25 - 39). This was not that bad. My situation got worse after 2 months of coming off of TRT. where my LH went to 1 or 2 and total T went 24 (25 - 39)

Would you take it again? No, I will exhaust every thing possible if left no choice then I will have to.

What is your conclusion

I am very much surprised. I am not sure, but the quality of body strenth has been going dow slowly. if this is Androgen receptors then three is still downregulation is going on. it is not we stopped fin\SP and all stopped as well there is something still going on.


#9
  1. How did you feel before starting? Every day was a struggle. I suffered from extreme brain fog, anxiety, memory problems, emotionally blunt and ED problems.
  2. What did you take? I take and continue to take 100 mg of Testosterone Cyp weekly and 10 mg of Tamoxifen daily to control estrogen.
  3. How long did you take it? Still take it currently and at 40 years of age I have made the commitment to take it the rest of my life.
  4. What did you feel while taking it? I wish I had done it 2 years and 2 months sooner. It took about a month before I started to notice improvements. Ten months later I am 99% back to my regular self.
  5. How did it affect your symptoms? It took care of the majority of my symptoms. I do sometimes have trouble with remembering words in general conversation but for the most part, that is almost resolved as well.
  6. Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results? My total T was 250, Estradiol was 55 and DHT was 25. On TRT my total T runs between 601-800, Estradiol is 22 and DHT is 52.
  7. Would you take it again? Yes, I will never stop taking it.
  8. What is your conclusion? For those of you who have gotten better naturally, God bless you. I tried for 2 years and 2 months of pure hell and doctor visits only to never return to normal. I finally asked myself, do I want to lose more quality of life because of a horrible mistake I made in taking Propecia? The answer for me was simple, hell no. My only regret is not doing it sooner. I lost so much weight on Propecia and all the muscle I had was gone. In 10 months, I have put on 12 pounds of pure muscle, and I am back to running marathons again. My sex life is great, which now my wife says she needs a break instead of the other way around. My confidence is back, memory is better and I still get a little tongue twisted at times but that has also been improving. I know that TRT is not for everyone and it may not have the same effects on others as it did with me. I can however say that it is hands down the best thing I could have done based on the situation I was in. I now feel I can provide for family, play with my kids and enjoy being me again. I wish that for everyone who has suffered as a result of Propecia.

#10

How did you feel before starting?

Felt like crap, no libido/wood.

What did you take?

My TRT also consists of hydrocortisone and armour thyroid. The hydrocortisone allowed me to feel “normal” again and destress me enough to have sex, although i have PE. I then went on vitamin d which increased my test levels due to improved LH i guess, and had an amazing erection but it died off due to high estradiol. Then tried arimidex to counter my high estradiol which worked but i am a bad responder to arimidex, total T went to 679 and E2 to 24. I am now taking 3 grams of Testogel and 2x250 ius HCG.

How long did you take it?

I am now taking this three months. First 1 gram, then two grams with HCG added, now on three grams.

What did you feel while taking it?

Mentally after applying the gel great, but still bad wood. The bloodwork showed low testosterone but high DHT, high conversion to DHT.

How did it affect your symptoms?

It did not help my ED, libido somewhat improved, fatigue gone short after applying then drop again. No morningwood past three months.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

Before: total T 15, estradiol high and low free T, adiol G low
After: total T 8, estradiol normal and free T low, adiol G low

Would you take it again?

I am bloodtesting 23rd of March and week or two after that switching to Test injects every week or twice a week. I will not take this gel again.

What is your conclusion?

Testogel has not done squat for my ED which is my main concern, due to high conversion to DHT keeping my total T low. I need injections to get a somewhat normal sex life back.


#11

How did you feel before starting?

Crap. Had improved with time from an horrific crash which gave me the usual sexual sides plus muscle loss, twitches, insomnia, loss of appetite, severe fatigue. Sleep and concentration improved but still had no libido, stiffness, general weakness.

What did you take?

Testogel 5g per day (1 sachet) as finally prescribed a year after quitting.

How long did you take it?

On and off three months but with gaps

What did you feel while taking it?

Nothing, nothing at all. I wasn’t expecting much but hoped for even a slight initial boost.

How did it affect your symptoms?

No change that I could really notice. Even tried rubbing in two or even three packs and still no difference.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

Test was 16 (scale 9-28) which seemed moderately respectable while at that time I was losing muscle fast. Maybe I had high test levels before this going by secondary sexual characteristics, or maybe free t was low (wasn’t measured). Anyway I was shaving less and losing body hair.
A further test came out at 12 (10-32) which convinced my uro to try TRT.
No results after TRT but uro said they were well within range.

Would you take it again?

Might try clomid then injectable T, likely off my own back. Also want to fully check adrenal/thyroid profile and treat that if required.

What is your conclusion?

I probably don’t have much sensitivity to androgens going by my symptoms and lack of response to testogel, plus the fact that I had the classic ‘crash’.
I’m still willing to try TRT injections at maybe higher doses to see if that yields any results.
Failing that I’ll dip my bollocks in the Lourdes grotto.


#12

guys please post here your experiences with DHT and testosterone replacement.


#13

Yes this thread is very important! If you’ve tried TRT or DHT supplementation let us know how you got on!


#14

Low libido, blunted emotions, a little depressed. The few months preceding my going on trt were actually some of the best since my crash.

Androderm either 2.5 or 5 mg daily, I think it was the 5mg patch but it was a long time ago and i can’t quite remember, I want to mention that i sometimes doubled or even quadrupled dosage (against my doctor’s advisement) without noticing a significant difference.

1 month solid in 2002, then completely quit for about six months, around six months after that I met a girl and tried double and quadruple dosages on “some” days that i was expecting to see her (a double, triple, or quadruple dosage about once every two weeks).

Noticeable improvement in mood and slight increase in libido for the first two weeks, then the positive effects wore off and i became very lethargic/fatigued compared to before i started. Quit after about a months use.

I felt better initially, then it began making some symtoms worse. Over the next 4 months I was very depressed, tired, and completely lost the urge to have sex. Everything seemed to return to baseline around 6 months after the last dose of the initial treatment period. I felt that my emotions and sex drive came close to completely returning maybe 2 or 3 times in my life during 2-3 hour intervals over a roughly 24 hr period following my random triple/quadruple dosages.

These results are from a blood test taken within a month before I started trt (the endo was reluctant to prescribe it)
I do not have the reference ranges available. I lost my insurance soon after obtaining the prescription, so i do not have any during/after lab reports.
Testosterone - 535 ng/dl
% Free T - 2.39
Free T - 128.0

Probably not, but I might consider it again if I began feeling much worse and my testosterone tested below range.

I went on trt fully believing my sex drive, erectile function, emotions, imagination, energy, acne, body odor, scalp oil, appocrine sweat, and general love of life would all completely return.

With the exception of a short-lived improvement in mood and libido during the first two weeks of the initial treatment, and a few spikes in libido and emotional capacity after taking a super high dose, TRT did nothing to substantially improve my condition. I have recently tried testosterone drops which are supposed to provide a short-term “spike” of testosterone, these also did nothing to help me.

I have honestly had better luck with my symptoms randomly lifting for short periods of time than I had with trt.

I do not believe androgen therapy will work for me and refuse to try any long term hrt out of fear of it shutting my natural production down.


#15

How did you feel before starting? Terrible. Extreme penile shrinkage (50%), fatigue, nearly no libido, depressed, completely apathetic, losing muscle and gaining fat rapidly.

What did you take? .5 cc of Testosterone cypionate twice weekly injected sub q per Shippen.

How long did you take it? About three months so far.

What did you feel while taking it? Would feel some hot flushing in my face after injections. That was about it.

How did it affect your symptoms? No changes. Mild worsening over all possibly. Obviously I have testicular atrophy now.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results? I didn’t take blood test at peak dose. About a week off (maybe 1 shot of .5 cc in the 10 days prior) I had bloods that looked about the same as Post Fin crash. Testosterone 700’s, Free T 140. One thing to note was before TRT my IGF-1 was off the chart high. Post TRT it was below range.

Woud you take it again Tough question. The docs all perscribe it for me but it the only thing I have to show for it is testicular atrophy even while taking hcg concurrently. There seems to be more evidence for its potential harm than good.

What is your conclusion? I don’t feel TRT is addressing the root issue for me.


#16
  1. How did you feel before starting?
    Muscle wasting gaining abdominal fat, brain fog, loss of concentration, chronic constipation, spontaneous morning erections slight, loss of sensitivity

    1. What did you take? 3. How long did you take it?
      Testogel for 8 months, then Androtardyl injections for last 9 months, Growth Hormone for last year

    2. What did you feel while taking it? 5. How did it affect your symptoms?
      Morning erections good again, extremely strong on starting GH, now erections back to just good. Nothing else has changed

    3. Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
      Before, Testosterone: 4155 pg/ml (3000-10000), Estradiol: 57 pg/ml (<30), ADiol G: 4.24 ng/ml (3.4-22)
      After 5 months, Testo: 5233 pg/ml, Estradiol: 12 pg/ml, A Diol G: 45.62 ng/ml
      I then stopped Tesosterone for a while and afer 10 months Testo: 2962 pg.ml, Estradiol: <10, A Diol G: 5.18 pg.ml
      Am awaiting latest blood test results but I’m expections Testo to be up again and A Diol G as well.

    4. Would you take it again?
      Resumed TRT but am about to stop now and just continue with a little Arimidex for while

    5. What is your conclusion?
      All the Testosterone converts to DHT (A Diol G) in my case, this results in quick increase in hairloss and increase in body hair. But no effect on muscle loss at all.
      Maybe the AR’s in the muscle have become resistant to Testosterone


#17
  1. How did you feel before starting?
    ED, numb penis, muscle wasting, chronic fatigue, problems concentrating, no libido, anhedonia, anorgasmia, ‘brain fog’, lowered body temp, watery semen, lowered fertility perameters, ‘poo pellets’, eyesight problems, increased abdominal fat, etc, etc.

  2. What did you take? 3. How long did you take it?
    Tamoxifen 2 weeks; DHT gel (Andractim) 1 week.

  3. What did you feel while taking it? 5. How did it affect your symptoms?
    Everything felt slightly worse using tamoxifen - the small amount of libido I had (1%) dropped to 0% so I stopped. I then felt a little bit better then back to normal.

Rubbed the DHT gel into my chest (at x2 dose and then x3 dose) and felt nothing. Rubbed it into my penis and it may of made my penis feel even more numb.

  1. Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?
    Before tamoxifen:

Testosterone 13 (8-27)
LH 3.8 (1.8 - 8)
FSH 5.9 (1 - 10)
Oestradiol 84 (28 - 156)
SHBG 19 (17 - 50)

After tamoxifen:

Testosterone 14.4
LH 4
FSH 5.9
Oestradiol 76
SHBG 30

No testing done whilst using DHT.

  1. Would you take it again?
    No. My libido never recovered.

  2. What is your conclusion?
    I feel worse after increasing androgens - even when rubbing DHT directly it into my penis. In fact I believe that experiment may have led to increased fibrosis/smooth muscle atrophy. Maybe the return of 5aR/3aHSD has somehow irritated my nerves which is further irritated by increasing androgens leading to no response or even more numbness and other problems? God knows.


#18

I’ve taken 12.5mg of proviron each day for the last 10 days. It helps a little. More ejaculate volume for sure, slightly better erections.

I’m sure 25mg would help even more.

I don’t take 25mg though because i already have high DHT so i don’t want to make my hairloss even worse; i doubt it’s a cure!!


#19

Proviron certainly made me feel good, but nothing spectacular. It would definitely be a good anti depressant!


#20

How did you feel before starting?

Terrible. Depressed/ sexual side effects were bad.

What did you take?

Proviron

How long did you take it?

5 days

What did you feel while taking it?

Small sexual desire boost/ slightly better erections. Very good mood.

Did you have any blood tests done before/during/after and if so, what were the results?

No

Would you take it again?

Possibly, if I am after a temporary boost in mood.

What is your conclusion?

No real conclusion to be drawn.