*** Post your Adiol-G (3alpha-androstanediol glucuronide) blood test results

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#41

BadLuck, don’t get down on yourself. Don’t expect anything from doctors.

You need the Adiol G test done. No compromise. I had to send my sample in ice to USA (Nicholls Institute). It was expensive.

Alternatively, you could phone up the national sports anti-doping committee in Canada (is that where you are from?) and see what urine tests they do for DHT metabolites.

Urine tests are as scientifically and legally binding as blood tests.

If you pm me, I can give the email address of the lady who helped me send my blood sample to Calafornia from Australia.

JN

#42

Badlcuk, I echo JNs comments. Find the Quest EndoManual on the Quest Diagnostics site. There is a page in there on the androstanediol glucuronide test and its interpretation in males, print it off and FAX it to your endo.

Chances are if your doctor is affiliated with a hospital in the Northeast (or most other places in the US) they send all the difficult tests to either Quest or Labcorp anyway (Quest bought Nicholls Lab, the latter runs the actual test in San Diego)

My first test was only ~ 150 ng/dL, or 1.5 ng/mL on the scale that others seem to be using. This was after a 5 week holiday from all testosterone boosting drugs and supplements.

Still waiting to here on my restest after 2 months on low dose clomiphene, along with growth hormone/IGF-1 boostings secretagogue.

#43

jairus just paste the link into your browser:

I should probably edit that link to reflect the ranges at +/- 3 standard deviations for both sets of units we are seeing the test reported in.

#44

Right, I am willing to ‘conduct a study’ into low Adiol G levels, if anyone here thinks it is a good idea. I think it is a good idea.

What we have here are many chaps with low 3 Adiol G levels. I assume this is the parameter we are trying to work on.

Simply, because I am a doc, I can formalise the findings of low 3 Adiol G. At least, put my name to a scientific paper that formalises this finding.

This makes it an official scientific breakthrough. Added to this, it would be ideal to see the RISE say, 2 months later, of 3 Adiol G on TRT/Drostanolone combination and resultant symptomatic improvement.

We would therefore require a good number of chaps to enter into that treatment.

I think I should be used as a weapon here because I am a doctor. Not because I want a paper in my name (it rids me of my anonymity) but because this would be a massive step in formalising our findings with (hopefully successful) treatment options.

If I receive any positive feedback, I’d be happy to go forth.

JN

#45

What would be great is if we could get some non-Fin users (ie, friends) to get theirs tested, and see if they are also low, or high… if they came back near upper limits it may provide further insights… ie, that our low results are an abnormality, and are worth investigating further via Endocrinologists.

#46

Mew,

EXACTLY. I was sitting there a moment ago thinking how to get our control group. Maybe we need to pay for our buddies to get it done.

That would be expensive.

I need to control myself here because, in my mind, I’m waging lots of battles on various fronts. (society, printable booklet). I really am a weapon here because I’m a doctor. I want to be ‘used’ properly and I think I need guidance here.

For 600 dollars I could buy the 3 alpha androstanediol glucuronide test kit (I have posted the link on my recoveries section). I work in a hospital and regularly ring the crazy Irish woman in the lab on nights re, methods of analysis, and even told her about my problems.

In any basic lab they have the ability to do 3 Adiol G test.

I have no problems getting male volunteers (get my old footy team from when I was on HGH) and easily more.

I have no problem with lab access. I’ll take the bloods myself.

Maybe I should just get this done? Mew, could you help here and direct me accordingly. Doctors have so much power in society (wrongly so) and I reckon I could make a difference if prodded in the right direction.

To update everyone, I am expecting my Masteron in the New Year. Defo.

#47

Uhm, what exactly are you suggesting I “do” for you? I can’t “do” anything over the Internet. If you want to get some mates from your footy team to do a voluntary blood draw and have the lab do their tests on your behalf, that would be quite a feat if possible.

#48

Mmm, I tend to get overexcited. I just telephoned a biochemistry registrar in endocrinology who stated this sort of trial would be difficult to validate unless all aspects of the trial are validated (calibration of equipment, assays, etc) and the cost of overcoming beauracracy would run into thousands.

Unfortunately, I guess our best approach currently is to report back on our anecdotal experience in our attempts to raise 3 Adiol G.

My opinion (particularly after so much self medication where I know my body intimately), is that 3 Adiol G may be a very significant parameter to control in issues of anti-ageing medicine, sexual functioning, prostate and breast cancer, depression and anxiety.

I will volunteer the case to Professor Handelsman when I consult him on 1st February.

I will also make an informal telephone call to the hospital lab to assess the possibility assessing 3 Adiol G on hospital equipment. If I can come up with something, then I’ll leave to the cynics to assess ‘quality control’. Maybe I could slip the Irish woman 1000 dollars or so for her night time toils.

Something Merck won’t like or will react to and/or something we can post about as a study will certainly be a good start, and something to build upon.

JN

#49

Yes Yes Yes…That is great…do it! If you need anything let me know…

#50

I’m still trying to get a handle on this whole 3 Adiol G deficiency thing. Correct me if I am wrong but here is the way I understand it (some cutting an pasting from Wiki):

  1. T gets converted to DHT via 5ARII. This can happen is several places in the body including the prostate gland, testes, hair follicles, and adrenal glands

  2. DHT is an androgen. It binds with the androgen receptors, which somehow regulates part of our sex drive. (how this affects our sex drive is kinda fuzzy to me)

  3. The body converts DHT to Androstanediol glucuronide (Adiol G) which consists of two isomers, Adiol 3-G and Adiol 17-G. This conversion happens primarily in the liver via an enzyme called Glucuronyl transferase.

It has been stated in this string that Adiol 3-G is a metabolite of DHT (this much I know is true) and that this is somehow an indication of 5ARII activity. The latter part of this statement is not intuitive to me, unless it means that by measuring a low Adiol 3-G level we are inferring that DHT levels are low since there is less of it to get converted. Is this a correct assumption? If not true then where are we going with this low Adiol 3-G theory? That we have a liver problem (which has been speculated on this site before). Does Adiol 3-G have any androgen characteristics by itself so that a low level can cause ED problems?

#51

There are two theoretical variables to this equation:

  • Low Adiol 3-G is due to low levels of input substrate (DHT)
  • Low Adiol 3-G is due to low throughput of 3a-HSD enzyme

The fact is that the throughput of any enzyme is variable. A nice paper on the subject:

bio.mtu.edu/campbell/401lec14.pdf

(you only need to read the first page, it’s easy to understand the basic message)

Based on this fact it should be clear that one cannot automatically assume that low Adiol 3-G means low DHT or even defective 5AR. And yes, I am aware of the research mentioned in this thread that attempts to establish this correlation in “normal” cases. But the situation in our bodies is currently far away from normality. One of the possibilities being discussed in the androgen receptor thread is that some protein may be inhibiting gene expression of the AR. Enzyme regulation works by exactly the same mechanism. Conceivably such a protein could be influencing pathways at different levels. That’s why I am not sure if measuring metabolites gives us reliable input in our situation.

#52

Badluck, I think you are close. What you are missing is that DHT is also produced via 5 alpha reductase type I. 5AR2 is important because it reflects the DHT produced locally in the testis, prostrate and pituitary.

#53

I believe that I found the answer to one of my questions below in one of Mews previous posts:

In Mews post:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1400

It states:

I believe 3α-androstanediol is the same as 3 Adiol G? If so a low level of 3 Adiol G deficiency by itself would affect your sex drive. Additonally Mews posts states that 3 Adiol G can be back converted to DHT by an unknown form of 3-HSD:

Any insight into this awor?

#54

i am a non propecia ED sufferer

i did have a period with some good erections but not replicable

i am getting my androstanediol glucuronide result 26th of february
prostate checked out okay

i have little facial hair and normal leg hair/pubic hair which is curious

this adiol value was taken before i started testogel which i am on now for 2 weeks, plus i am taking armour thyroid and medrol

i will ask for a followup measurement of adiol

also getting dht measured in serum within two weeks to see if the testogel drives this up too much

if i don’t reply please pm me so i get a notification in my email

thanks

#55

tested tomorrow.

#56

This list of individuals who have low 3 adiol g keeps growing…Should be getting my test done soon I’m hoping.

14 individuals on this list so far.

#57

Interesting article on 3 Adiol G…

This could explain brain fog and prostate issues.

endo.endojournals.org/cgi/conten … 004-0871v1

5-androstane-3, 17-diol (3Adiol) is a metabolite of the potent androgen, 5-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Recent studies showed that 3Adiol binds to estrogen receptor- (ER) and regulates growth of the prostate gland through an estrogen, and not androgen, receptor-mediated pathway. These data raise the possibility that 3Adiol could regulate important physiological processes in other tissues that produce 3Adiol, such as the brain. Although it is widely accepted that the brain is a target for DHT action, there is no evidence that 3Adiol has a direct action in neurons. To explore the molecular mechanisms by which 3Adiol might act to modulate gene transcription in neuronal cells, we examined whether 3Adiol activates ER-mediated promoter activity and whether ER transactivation is facilitated by a classical ERE or an AP-1 complex. The HT-22 neuronal cell line was co-transfected with an expression vector containing ER, ER-1, or the ER splice variant, ER-2 and one of two luciferase-reporter constructs containing either a consensus ERE or an AP-1 enhancer site. Cells were treated with 100 nM E2, 100 nM 3Adiol, or vehicle for 15 h. We show that 3Adiol activated ER-1-induced transcription mediated by an ERE equivalent to that of 17-estradiol (E2). By contrast, 3Adiol had no effect on ER or ER-2-mediated promoter activity. Moreover, ER-1 stimulated transcription mediated by an ERE and inhibited transcription by an AP-1 site in the absence of ligand binding. These data provide evidence for activation of ER signaling pathways by an androgen metabolite in neuronal cells.

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#58

Kind of eccentric, it’s on transsexual Male to Female and Female to Male…It’s based on sex steroids and what it does to hormone levels. High administrations of sex steroids signficantly raises 3 Adiol G.

Article link

jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/85/4/1648.pdf

#59

Just got my bloodwork done this morning. Not sure how long the results will take. My Endo looked at me with 3 heads when I mentioned checking for 3 Adiol G. She was very responsive and reffered me to an andrologist.
She still ordered the bloodwork I asked.

#60

My results from tests on 17.11.09 for Adiol-G:
4.24 ng/ml (3.4-22)

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