Then i need to try gaba asap im dying
I will repeat what I have said earlier though, when I was reading reviews, I saw some people say it had changed their lives and others say it had done nothing at all, so don’t get your hopes up. Go into it telling yourself it is a 50/50 and just hope you are in the right half.
Regarding sleep in the meantime. If you are having trouble sleeping, I have found the following to be useful:
- Melatonin, if you ca get it, but should not be used perpetually. It actually seemed to stop being effective for me, but there was a time when it would get me to sleep. Try to get the slow release stuff if you can, because the normal stuff I found only left me to sleep for 4 hours max.
- Bed time teas, any really. These are not going to send you to sleep but they should help you relax a little
- Warm/hot bath before bed. I haven’t lived in a place with a bath for most of my time with PFS, but when I have I have found it helpful. Directly before bed, be ready for bed, teeth brushed, bed ready to get into, and get straight into bed after a bath for 20 minutes or so (obviously dry yourself first).
- Guided meditation. I didn’t try this for a long time because I am generally not a calm minded person who feels I can meditate. I didn’t really understand what guided meditation is, but download the Headspace app, or I use videos on Youtube by a guy called Michael Sealy (there are many others available too). My go to track is called “Guided Meditation for Detachment From Over-Thinking (Anxiety / OCD / Depression)”, but he has many others. When my mind is racing and I can’t really relax to listen, I would try to repeat what he is saying in my head and that would generally help me calm down. I got to a point where I think my brain began to associate his voice with sleeping so that sometimes I would barely remember listening to it when I woke up. I would wake up tangled in my headphone cable and generally only sleep for 3.5 to 5 hours, but at least it got me to sleep. Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night I will still put that on to help me get back to sleep.
What do you think about this compared to Align (or in your country alflorex)?
These are both strains of Bifido Longum.
Can you tell a real difference in these different strains?
I know they are marketed differently.
1714-Serenitas culture vs 35624 both bifido longum subspecies longum
What would make each unique I wonder.
I know these are both expensive because of the manufacturing process.
Only available at 1 billion each right?
What if this dose was increased by 10x? Probably wouldn’t be very cost effective im guessing.
When looking at this species as a whole, there are very limited options.
The only other one that comes to mind is bb536.
Oh they are worlds apart in effect. Zenflore is cognitive and Alflorex is digestive. I use both.
I use Zenflore every day at the moment along with Ginkgo Biloba, both taken in the morning on an empty stomach, because I am trying to do my masters thesis. I have somehow dragged myself through a masters (though it has taken much longer than it was scheduled to) during the worst of my time with PFS.
I take Alflorex as needed, though mainly because my supply is almost gone and it is expensive to get more. I can live with loose stools but I am concerned about the extent to which the Zenflore and Ginkgo are contributing to my recent cognitive improvements, so I am taking them daily until I graduate, then I will stop to see where I am at.
That said, if I could afford it I would probably take Alflorex every other day. I had my first properly solid healthy looking shit today for the first time in a couple of weeks, despite eating gluten and lactose yesterday, and I am sure it is because I took Alflorex for the past couple of days. Sadly, though, that means I have one left.
With both supps you are supposed to spend a month priming the gut with daily intake.
Regarding a megadose, I had considered that, and I did wonder if you could establish a permanent colony by doing so. I did actually write to precision biotics, the maker of both to ask that, and I think I was told something like the gut will naturally flush it away as it is not a colony native to the gut. I didn’t actually check into it to see if that was true and I would be very keen for anyone knowledgeable on the gut microbiome’s feedback on that as a potential approach. Because I was also thinking that it wouldn’t be ideal for the company if people were buying the product one time and establishing colonies in their gut and not needing to come back to buy more.
Once I have graduated and get back into work and have money, depeding on the extent to which I feel zenflore is helping (I want to stop both ginkgo and zenflore, then try introducing each individually), if it proves to be contributing significantly to my cognitive function, I intend to continue taking zenflore daily. Once I have money, if my gut issues are still not resolved, which seems highly unlikely, I will also get onto daily Alflorex, or more likely every other day. It is astoundingly effective. So much so that I have found sometimes when taking it daily that shits become too dry and solid, even uncomfortable to pass.
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There have been some studies on 35624 strain effects outside of the gut.
Bifidobacterium infantis 35624.
Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 induced both behavioral and neurologic effect through modulation of neurotransmitters, inflammatory response, and intestinal permeability. Research by Desbonnet, Garrett, Clarke, Bienenstock, and Dinan (2008) observed that B. infantis 35624 reduced frontal cortex serotonin concentrations, increased plasmatic concentrations of noradrenaline and tryptophan, and inhibited the production of IL-10. The significance of these mediated effects are supported in previous work by (Amat et al., 2005; Bland et al., 2003) showing a connection between prefrontal cortex serotonin concentration and the modulation of anxiety, in work by Vijayakumar and Meti (1999) showing a connection between noradrenaline and depression, in work by Myint et al. (2007) showing a connection between decreased plasmatic tryptophan concentrations and depression, and work by (Dhabhar et al., 2009) showing a connection between IL-10 and major depressive syndrome.
Behavioral influence was demonstrated in the abovementioned study by (Desbonnet et al., 2008) which noted an amelioration of typified depressive behavior in rats administered with B. infantis 35624 that worked as effectively as the positive study control Citalopram supporting the effectiveness of B. infantis 35624 as a behavioral regulator.
I see both of these strains came from the same research group.
As far as long term colonization, I think it could be possible. I believe the following strain is actually from the same research group. Im not sure if its the one that turned into Zenflore though, it has a different strain number. It might not be commercialized.
A Probiotic That Actually Lasts
María Maldonado-Gómez, from the University of Nebraska, asked 23 volunteers to take daily doses of either B. longum or a placebo pill, and checked their stool for signs of the strain’s DNA.
In most of the volunteers, the bacterium disappeared within the first month or even the first week. But in a third of them, it persisted, and for more than half a year in some cases. Unlike normal probiotics, this strain seemed to establish a permanent foothold.
@5ariWillGetBetter I have taken the same gaba for the last two nights and it has done wonders for my sleep and anxiety/mood. I’m waking up feeling actually refreshed and also calm and happy at work instead of the usual anxiety and low mood. Hopefully this keeps up
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I will report back in a week, whatever is going on with us gaba is definitely affected. Also not having nightly nightmares
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I’ve been preaching amino acids on here for almost 2 years. For that matter, @Ozeph has a thread going also, “Amino Acids for Neurological Symptoms” and he did one for sexual symptoms as well. Glad to see some other people getting some help from them. Don’t just stop with GABA, there are dozens of different acids you can try. Currently I am taking L Tyrosine, Phenylalanine, Malic Acid, and a side chain called Ethenolamine.
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That is amazing to hear @Lostinaustin I do think the initial major gains I experienced have receded, but I also think my sleep is much better than before. I have quite a lot of stress due to the masters I am doing and my progress being slow, but previously I feel like that would have been keeping me up until 3, 4 or later in the morning. I had trouble getting to sleep last night, was awake till past 1, and then woke up initially at 5 something. But I was able to get back to sleep, and actually slept through till 7 something, before waking again and then sleeping another 30mins or so. I still felt tired when I got up, but previously the idea of being able to drift back off to sleep was unthinkable. I think I am going to miss the dose tonight, and potentially have a break over the weekend, just to see how that goes.
@alteredlife I do need to educate myself on what these all do and might dip in. I remember when I had an awful time on creatine following my crash, that prompted me to abandon all of my gym related supps, but wondering now if I should have kept taking the big bottle of BCAAs I had.
Creatine didn’t help me, if anything made me worse. BCAA’s are good. I look them up individually based on my symptoms and attack it that way. So, someone with different symptoms, might get help from taking different amino’s based on their own symptoms. Ozeph has had a terrible time with sleep, which is why he posted the thread and is attacking the neurological symptoms. I’ve never had trouble with sleep so I don’t concentrate on that like he does. I have had brain fog, but my skin issues is what bothers me the most. I’m constantly fighting dry cracked hands. I am better than I was before I started taking acids. My HDL cholesterol has improved over the last year and 9 months. I have had several full recoveries. The first one lasted for 4 days. The next one lasted intermitted for 2-3 months and I’ve had two or three since then that have lasted for about 2 full weeks at the time. In all the 18 years before, I never even had one day of recovery. I’m hopeful that my body is eventually going to just recover on it’s own, but we’ll see.
Hey Altered life. I have physical anhedonia but tried Tyrosine and was surprised as I felt nothing whatsoever from it (ironic!). Not sure why.
I definitely need to be looking into this then. I feel that my baseline has reached a new better level in the past couple of months, hopefully it will continue to hold.
Just an update on my gaba usage. On Saturday I went to a friends and ended up drinking 8 beers and sleeping on the sofa, so that enforced the break I was intending to have. I slept pretty well (as you might expect from 8 beers) and felt pretty good yesterday. I then decided to skip the gaba last night again and see how I slept and felt today. I got to sleep with only the assistance of a bedtime tea and guided meditation and was asleep by 12.30. I woke up once in the night, but got back to sleep relatively easily, and slept through till 8.15 or 8.30. While I did feel tired upon waking, the fact I managed to sleep for almost 8 hours with no significant supplement of any kind is the first time this has happened since PFS came on in early 2017, and I feel like it must have something to do with the previous two weeks of gaba supplementation.
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Keep in mind the possibility of microbial involvement or the processing of glutamate to GABA might be a more sophisticated way the body handles this regulatory process.
serotonin and microbiota connection may be of particular interest given the evidence that the strain of Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 can increase plasma concentrations of serotonin precursortryptophan (20). Apart from serotonin, microbiota can influence the enteric nervous system by producing other locally acting neurotransmitters, such as GABA, melatonin, histamine and acetylcholine and by generating active forms of catecholamines in the gut lumen
GABA‐producing Bifidobacterium dentium modulates visceral sensitivity in the intestine
The probiotic Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 displays visceral antinociceptive effects in the rat
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2982.2010.01520.x
GABA-PRODUCING CULTURABLE BACTERIA DERIVED FROM THE HUMAN
GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT
You mean the gaba might have had a positive effect on gut flora? Sorry, as soon as very scientific terms come into things my brain generally stops processing the information.
No, no, no. lol. But yes it could be a two way street.
I mean dietary intake of Glutamate gets converted to GABA from select commensal microbes.
Or the ability of.
Im guessing based on how Zenflore is marketed, it might fall into this category as well.
Ah right, yes I also didn’t take that the past two days, though about to take my dose for today now my breakfast isn’t sitting on my stomach
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Some people get help with acids, some don’t. If I try an acid and feel nothing, I move on and experiment with others. I mix and match all the time. I do better when I take them then I do without them. When you study on them, it actually makes sense. Your genes directly affect your proteins. If your genes are altered, your proteins will be altered too hence an epigenetic change. That’s why I believe amino acids help.
Would you attribute this improvement to GABA or GHB use or both?
Well the last GHB use was months ago, however I got into it in an attempt to open up pathways in my brain according to what I had read about it and what some have written in the past. I found GHB to be extremely beneficial at bringing about sleep and I certainly wouldn’t discount it from being a significant contributor to the improvements I have seen in recent months. I have been wondering if that primed my brain to be more susceptible to the Gaba, though the fact Lostinaustin has reported benefits without previous GHB usage caused me doubts.
Sorry, I realise this is not really an answer, but the truth is I really don’t know.