how long have you been suffering from PFS?
I remeber checking this forum and feeling the same as you when reading success stories… I think its a matter of time.
18 months or thereabouts.
I agree that for some people time will make the difference and until recently, I was one of them. I think I’m back to waiting it out again, which sadly, I think is the only real strategy we have, aside from supporting research and participation with media and social projects.
I don’t disagree with a lot of your post, but I don’t think we can prescribe exercise and good diet as a path to health.
I read recently (maybe in this topic!) Something along the lines of that if your general health could be rated at 5/10 when you used to be 10/10, then exercise and diet getting you to 6/10 is a better place to be.
Unfortunately for some people here, exercise makes them worse, etc.
I think that the role of moderator is a double edged sword. I have to think “is this something that everyone can benefit from? Is this something that some will be worsened from?” It means I miss out on a lot of the enthusiasm and excitement when someone posts that they’re feeling better.
I think hope is important and hearing from anyone whose symptoms improved is a gift to many of us. Unfortunately the forum’s default response is to then say “what did you do?” And there just isn’t the evidence that anyone’s sharing a replicable method. What has happened in the past is that someone says “eating this way did it” and then it doesn’t work, so people advocate doing that even more. Then all of a sudden someone’s saying they’re eating 2kg of spinach a day.
I’m not knocking you, you’re just saying what you did, but we can’t say that’s a realistic path to a cure.
I think people can and do get better, but unfortunately, I don’t think there’s a cure in the gym or the supermarket.
I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade and I know some people have got angry when I post things like this which is a bit like getting the worst of the forum and then being called an asshole by the very people you’re trying to look out for, but we are literally talking about life and death - some people have acted on others’ advice, made themselves worse and not been able to carry on.
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“I think people can and do get better, but unfortunately, I don’t think there’s a cure in the gym or the supermarket.”
I disagree.
I believe the cure is healthy lifestyle changes. Trying balancing your hormones in a natural way, cold showers, , sun exposure, top nutrition and the right fitness program.
I have earned my personal training international certification while fighting PFS.
This is my story, its a true story, at one point found myself impotent and did fight back without going to the doctor to try another pill … In fact I have not taken a pharmaceutical pill since Finasteride. This pharma stuff is a lobby that wants us all sick,.
I stated to avoid cardio, and suggested strength training.
I have doudbts thinking that anyone who has strictly followed a protcol
like this for at least 3 years hasnt drammatically improved.
maybe I am wrong…
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Did you suffer from anxiety depression and brainfog while in pfs? And did you have any other symptoms?
“Unfortunately for some people here, exercise makes them worse, etc”
I’m sorry brother but I have to disagree with some of the things you said as well. I have even used the excuse that exercise makes me worse, but have I really stuck to an exercise regime for more than a few months before giving it up? I haven’t, and I think for a lot of us here, we haven’t given a lifestyle change/workout plan an honest try. We try it for a while, and it hurts our bodies and it feels like we’re going backwards, so we quit. It’s the easy way out to try something for a few months or a year, then discredit it as not working because you don’t get the fast results you want. I have been guilty of this many times. A lot of us on here are our own worst enemy.
If we actually took a poll of the amount of guys that stuck to a strict, everyday routine that focused on diet, lifestyle, and a workout plan for multiple years at a time, I can bet the number would be low. I think the key that surfer is trying to get across is that this took him YEARS of doing this everyday. Almost none of us have that kind of discipline.
I’ll be the first one to say that I haven’t ever given something like this an honest shot, and I’ve had this for 8 years. We’re all looking for a simple fix. A medication we take for a few months that normalizes our brain and we live happily ever after. Truth is, I don’t think that’s an honest reality. We have to be real with ourselves and understand that even though these medications may have only taken 3 days to royally screw up our lives, it could take 3 years of an everyday routine to get us back to where we need to be.
The only cures I have ever heard of online, all have a common denominator. Workout routine, strict diet, and consistency. Most of us haven’t really given it an honest shot, and I think we owe it to ourselves to see it through. How badly do we wanna be healed? If we want it bad enough, we should be willing to do anything to get it.
Thank you @Surfer for your testimony. It may just be the tool I needed to kick my ass into high gear. Ive HATED going to the gym with a passion my whole life, but maybe if I would give it an honest shot, I would Gain back the last 10-15 percent I need for a full recovery. I feel I’m getting there little by little. I’ve been putting off the gym and strict diet for many years and had I addressed
These issues sooner, maybe I could be back to 100 percent as well. Congratulations on your recovery sir. I hope you continue to post here and inspire those that are suffering from this horrible disease.
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I think you’re not aware of the variability of the condition and that when I say working out makes some people worse that I’m not talking about not enjoying the experience. I totally understand that based on your experience what’s being spoken about seems reasonable.
Fwiw, I personally do go to the gym and feel it is beneficial to me, but I am aware of people here who are physically impaired by this. There are some whose muscle wasting is worsened by lifting weights, not improved.
The “10-15%” that you estimate this condition has taken from you puts you at the mild end of the spectrum. For some people, what these drugs have done to them affects every facet of their life.
It is not possible for everyone here to train and see improvements. Don’t confuse one person feeling better after 3 years as being a plan for recovery. I felt better after 15 months and started going to the gym. I think I would have felt better at 17 months gym or not.
To be clear - I am not saying you shouldn’t go to the gym. I am not saying that you won’t feel better going to the gym.
I am however saying that some people here will not benefit from going to the gym. For that reason going to the gym is not a cure for PFS.
Oh brother, I will correct you. I did not lose 10-15 percent. I crashed 8 years ago and had EVERY single symptom in the book. I was at zero mentally AND physically. Go find the worst case of pfs on this forum and I had every single symptom he had. You have been suffering for 18 months, and while I’m not trying to downgrade your situation, You have to understand that I’ve been through this for a lot longer, and it’s helped me gain some perspective and see things for how it really is.
You cannot say that certain people will not be helped by surfers routine because you simply do not know that. Don’t spread negativity, as factual information. As I said before, most people don’t have the discipline to even try what he did, and most people haven’t attempted this level of discipline. I tried going to the gym in the beginning for 3-4 months and felt worse off so I gave up. But the reality is, I should Have kept pushing through the bad. You have to put your body through something to push it in the right direction, even if it doesn’t make you feel better right away.
Refusing to believe that this sort of thing will not help everyone is negative, and this forum doesn’t need that kind of thing being spread around, especially when it’s not factual. We’re all in this together
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Sincerely? I also doubt that there will not be at least 60% or even 70% improvement if the person has been on a healthy diet for two years with pre & probiotics, cutting carbohydrates and gluten, going to the gym daily (and performing correct exercises), doing relaxation techniques (like meditation and yoga), doing pelvic physiotherapy / physiotherapy, breathing properly, maintaining proper posture, working on your mental state (whether with psychology or not) avoiding drugs, alcohol and medication (maybe coffee too?).
I confess that I don’t have this discipline yet, mainly because on weekends my mother-in-law only makes foods full of carbohydrates, gluten and sugar. In addition, I am extremely lazy to wake up early and attend a gym daily, especially for two fucking years.
It is more comfortable to think about things like Proviron, Clomid, TRT, HCG etc., but in fact this is wrong. When these things don’t work, people come here and feed this forum with negativity, saying that nothing works. And it remains in an eternal loop (including myself in that).
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Genuinely wondering, what do you propose someone does when a single workout session sends them from baseline (dysthymia, some degree of anhedonia, not great libido, some degree of numbness) to much worse (severe depression, suicidal thoughts, severe anxiety, worse derealization, insomnia, lack of appetite, ED, worse numbness, and genital pain) for a week? At that point pushing forward doesn’t really seem like an option because you’re living from minute to minute and craving any sort of relief, and it seems like common sense to avoid anything that makes you feel like that.
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No one said you have to go push yourself to the max right away. Remember this: I also had bad reactions to working out, I felt dead, anxious, dark circles under my eyes, like I had nothing left in me, joints aching, your not alone In that regard. I think the key is to Start really slow and work your way up. If at first we’re reacting very poorly, then do 20 minute light workouts. If we need a week between workouts, then give ourselves a week.
I made excuses why something like this wouldn’t work, because It hurt me mentally and physically, and I didn’t get the results I wanted Im the first few months. Eventhoufh I’ve made progress, I’m still not 100 percent cured after 8 fucking years. What does that tell you? Sitting around lurking forums hoping for some other type of recovery just isn’t realistic and to be brutally honest, probably won’t ever pan out.
Since day one that I was on this forum over 8 years ago, there has been little to no documented progress made, so why are we still doing the same things? We can make every excuse in the book for why something wont work, but we owe it to ourselves to give it a shot, even if it initially makes us feel worse. I’m done with excuses. If I have to go through hell to get there then so be it.
I remembered why I left this forum years ago. It doesn’t matter what you say, or even if you made a full recovery, there will be skeptics on here doubting your process and making excuses for why they can’t do what you did or why it won’t work; or even going as far to say as the person posting a recovery is a fraud. This type of lunacy is what’s stopping us from making any real progress. I know it’s hard you don’t have to tell me that. My life was taken from me at 20 years old, but had I been more productive in my attempts, perhaps I’d be further along right now.
We’re either winners or were losers. Our fate is in our own hands. I’m not gonna let myself be my own enemy anymore. I’m done posting here for now, I don’t want to associate with negativity. We can beat this. Best of luck to you all, I’m giving this my best shot
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Guys, I think the one size fits all exercise and diet regimes have been proven over a long period of time to have varying degrees of success and not right for everyone. They are not right for everyone.
I’ve tried CDnuts protocol for 7 months and felt worse, while others do similar things and have symptomatic relief. I’ve realised that for me personally, sitting on the couch eating burgers has the same effect on me as jogging daily and eating Paleo.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t try mild exercise and eat healthy (common sense), but this community has been trying this same thing for 15 years with very sporadic success.
I’d encourage everyone to try and find little things that provide some symptomatic relief, contribute to the surveys and report symptoms to your local regulatory body. The admins are working incredibly hard at taking the first steps to get us out of this, and good things are hopefully coming this year.
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you dont have to jog, you have to lift heavy things. Get it! stick to it for 3 years while eating paleo and then come and speak to me. only then as I may well be wrong…
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This is the winning attitude. You will get over it, You are willing to do all it takes, go all the way. All the best
you are a winner
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brain fog yes, MCT oil and quality omega 3 supplements can really help you with brain fog. as far as anxiety and depression yes I did get them too but I reckon these are subconsciously related to ED and its consequences.
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yoga, sun exposure, meditation, healthy eating… ecc
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I lifted heavy for 7 months; it made me much worse. Severe adrenal fatigue, worse brain fog, the works.
Not sure ‘lifting more heavy things’ is the right answer for me, but if your protocol is working for you, I’m happy.
@Surfer, while it is appreciated that you signed-up to answer questions and share your recovery and the regimen of diet and exercise that you feel led to this recovery, you are not welcome to prescribe this to other members as a path to their recovery.
Just a reminder.
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Thanks for the inspiration boss
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I gotta say, Healthy eating and proper exercise isn’t prescribing anything. These two things should be common sense for most of us, but when we get down and depressed about our condition, we forget that. This is just inspiring us to get out of the slump we’re in and be the best version of ourselves. At least that’s what I get from his story
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