No, but I might buy NMN when I run out of NR.
Update 10/11/2021:
I quit the Fluticasone spray (realized it was doing more harm than good, especially when used more than once a day) and CoQ10 (not really necessary). Iām also getting off nicotine lozenges too for a bit to decrease excess sympathetic stimulation and prolactin.
Finally, to increase my dopamine and decrease my prolactin synergistically with the pro-test/AR effects of Tribulus/Creatine, Iām taking 1-2 g L-tyrosine on an empty stomach in the morning followed by 50-100 mg Bromantane sublingually for ~20 min. This seems more sustainable to me than the alternative dopamine stack: 99% l-dopa/EGCG/piperine/fish oil/vitamin B1/Vitamin B6 (p-5-p) (after eating). I also use very low dose Huperzine-A (10-15 mg) a few times a week to boost my working memory/overall cognition.
Otherwise, the core NR + BHB + Sodium butyrate + Caffeine + Creatine + Tribulus stack is still working pretty well. The one change is that the sexual/libido boost from Tribulus isnāt as strong from a single capsule anymore. It doesnāt cause a crash or anything like that, but it just doesnāt do much for me even at higher doses. Iāll probably cycle off and then back on it in a week. At least now, I can positively respond to Tribulus instead of it causing a crash.
Update 10/11/21:
Things are getting a lot better! L-dopa alone is helping tremendously in addition to the other stuff. Cognitively almost back to 100%. Physically/sexually maybe 75%.
I decided to cycle on and off the tribulus/tongkat for a few days at a time so I donāt disrupt my AR sensitivity too soon while dopaminergic/prolactin functioning is being restored.
Current daily stack:
Morning:
- L-tyrosine (1-2 g)
- Bromantane (100 mg sublingual 30 min)
- Huperzine-A (10-20 mg)
- L-dopa (200-400 mg)
- Sodium Butyrate (2 capsules)
- Magnesium BHB (1-2 g)
- NR (1 g)
- Vitamin D3 (5000 IU)
- Vitamin B6/p-5-p (100 mg)
- Creatine (5 g)
Noon:
- Sodium Butyrate (2 capsules)
Evening:
- Magnesium Glycinate
Very cool that people are finding improvement with NMN. Not to dissuade people who are doing well on it, but what did I do wrong by taking half a pill of an older version of this: https://alivebyscience.com/product/nad-complete-capsules-powdered-liposomal-nad/
The old formula which I took half a pill of was:
Nicotinamide Mononucleotide 105mg
Nicotinamide Riboside 100mg
Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide 95mg
That half a pill made my sleep and especially muscle symptoms relapse. I then developed dysphagia. I lost fine motor function of my swallowing muscles leading to daily aspiration still to this day after almost 4 months.
I was constantly and literally drowning on my own saliva and coughing so hard for hours every day that people thought I might have lung cancer. It was the worst thing Iāve ever experienced since getting PFS or ever for that matter. I didnāt think I was going to make it this time. Imagine if I took a whole pill.
Someone else also said they developed dysphagia after taking NMN in my thread about dysphagia and NAD+, but not as bad as I had it.
So I am wondering for the people who are finding success with NMN, did you develop any kind of muscular dystrophy from PFS like muscle loss, weakness, numbness, tingling, discoordination, etc?
Is it that I took the wrong kind of NAD+ supplement or is it that I unfortunately canāt take these things given my phenotype of PFS?
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Good to hear, also informative to see you posting your results on a regular basis. Very interested where this will go, as Iāll probably be of same mind to you. Going to test tribulus soon. Have you had luck with Rhodiola? What are your thoughts about that?
Have you had any mental improvements as well, in terms of masculinity/authority/leadership the more subconscious/emotional mental sides? (read this if you want more info)
EDIT: Just read that
Rhodiola sachalinensis Boriss extract irradiated with 50 kGy gamma rays (HKC)
āā¦was found to inhibit 5-AR activity by measuring testosterone levels in serum and prostate tissue (Figure 4). Compared to the BHP group, the administration of finasteride improved the serum and prostate testosterone levels (Figure 4). HKC restored the testosterone levels in serum and prostate in a similar manner as by finasteride, signifying that the HKC may act through inhibition of 5-AR.ā
And whether ota Rhodiola Rosea is gamma radiated:
āNine spice and aromatic herb samples (i.e., basil, bird pepper, black pepper, cinnamon, nutmeg, oregano, parsley, rosemary, and sage) were gamma-irradiated at a dose of 10 kGy according to commercial practices.ā (from [source](h ttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12568551/))
ā¦ So thats probably another 5ARI. It even shows as effective as Finasteride.ā¦
EDIT: It turns out they were actively testing it because of the radiation given, and not specifically because it is Rhodiola. They even discuss why Rhodiola is the right natural ingredient to use for irradation.
R. sachalinensis has received great interest in the phytochemical investigation for many years, and many bioactive components have been isolated from it, such as phenylpropanoids, flavonoids, tannins, and so on [13]. R. sachalinensis has shown various bioactivities, including anticancer activity, antioxidant activity, anti-inflammatory activity, cardioprotective effect, and neuroprotective effects [14]. Moreover, salidroside, rosavins, and p -tyrosol in this plant possess benefits on fatigue, depression, and cognitive dysfunction [15,16].
Salidroside has shown many bioactivities, including antioxidant activity, antiaging activity, anticancer activity, anti-inflammatory activity, resisting anoxia, and cardioprotective effects. Recently, salidroside has been known as a cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) inhibitor, and some studies on the anti-inflammatory mechanism have been also reported [17,18]. Nonetheless, no studies have been described on the efficacy and therapeutic effects of these compounds on prostatic hyperplasia. In addition, we found that R. sachalinensis extract, as well as the bioactive components, such as salidroside, rosavin, rosarin, and p -tyrosol, had no proliferation inhibitory effect on prostatic hypertrophy cells (data not shown). Therefore, this study aimed to investigate the effects of the ethanol extract of R. sachalinensis irradiated with 50 kGy gamma rays (HKC) on prostatic hyperplasia using a testosterone propionate (TP)-induced BPH rat model.
A key thing I discovered was that dopamine sensitivity needed to be restored first before Tongkat/Tribulus/Cistanche/Creatine etc began having an effect again. I achieved this with L-dopa (~500mg/day for one month). When I introduced the test boosting supps a few weeks into that, they began working again. Youāll also want to cycle on and off the test boosting supplements (rather than just increasing the dose) for them to maintain their beneficial effects. They stop doing much for me after a few days of consecutive use.
This was inspired by a PFS post I read on Raypeat (see ChemHead comments):
In order of most impactful
- l-dopa 99% pure from curease (~500mg)
- Bromantane (50mg sublingual 20mins) + L-tyrosine
- Toniiq tribulus/Creatine/Nootropics Depot Tongkat Ali and Cistanche
- NR (300-500 mg)
- Sodium Butyrate (2 capsules)
Personally, I donāt react very well to rhodiola (tried before PFS) so I havenāt used it since. Yes, I feel very close to fully recovered (~90%) including mental/androgen sensitivity related sides. I also fast quite frequently which over time can increase androgen sensitivity/AR density I believe. However if I fast too much, my libido/masculine dominance or however you want to describe it weakens. Also, eating unhealthy and a lack of excercise certainly hasnāt helped. I believe getting these two factors in check: regular excercise and healthy eating the majority of the time consistently for a few months will take me from 90 to 100%.
Regardless of my lifestyle, getting dopamine (L-dopa/L-tyrosine/Bromantane/Caffeine/Nicotine lozenges) and then androgenic signalling (Toniiq tribulus/creatine/tongkat/Cistanche) in check fixed almost all of my mental sides.
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Amazing! This might be the missing link that explains why some people see no benefits from Tribulus/Tongtat/cistanche, or have limited effect/steep diminishing returns after a couple cycles.
What happens if you stop taking all these supplements? Do you remain at 90%?
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Good question, even before pfs I needed caffeine/occasionally nicotine lozenges to get my dopamine levels/receptors functioning optimally. I have quit l-dopa and bromantane+L-tyrosine for a week but seperately, never both at the same time. I havenāt quit the Tribulus yet, but would assume it should be fine since I quit the Tongkat and was taking Tribulus alone with no noticable difference. All that happens when I get off is my body resensitizes to these proandrogenic supplements so when I use them after a week or so of being off, they work at full strength again for ~3 days.
Thanks for all the good info. How long have you been on this protocol now, maybe changed some things, but for the most part?
And hoe did you respond to rhodiola? Just read itās possiblr to use a 50 gamma irriated version to treat bph like fin. Im not really any different , except for elevated fear.
Why do you think about vemoherb compared to toniiq?
Thanks!
Iāve been on the protocol for approximately 1 month (Just like ChemHead from the raypeat post above) and then took a week-long break from l-dopa at exactly the one month mark with no adverse effects (I did continue to support my dopamine system however during the break with caffeine/bromantane/l-tyrosine/nicotine lozenges).
I only took Rhodiola BEFORE PFS and it kinda fkd with my mood/made me a bit tired so I never took it again, especially not after PFS.
Vemoherb is WAY stronger than Toniiq. I have both, but have been using Toniiq after getting my dopamine system working again since I donāt want to overdo it and shut my androgen system down/overwhelm it. I am planning to try 1-2 caps of Vemoherb in a month or so though to see if it shuts me down/crashes me like it did before I fixed my dopamine system. Toniiq certainly does not have this effect anymore, so Iām hoping Vemoherb wonāt either.
log 10/10/21-11/18/21:
10/10/21 (day 1 of L-dopa: shouldnāt take longer than 11/10/21)
Bromantane ~100mg sublingual (~20 min) and 1-2 g L-tyrosine have been much more helpful and sustainable than the l-dopa stack (supported with egcg,piperine,fish oil,vitamin B1). Could be the l-dopa spikes and then crashes dopamine while elevating prolactin and/or the egcg inhibits 5AR slightly.
Also, taking tribulus especially later in the day after about 1 week leads to excess sympathetic symptoms (i.e. sweaty palms etc). Need to just stick with the bromantane l-tyrosine and high dose Vitamin B6 (p-5-p) to lower prolactin. Also need to eat lower carb and fast more. Might take a break from tribulus soon too. Will continue creatine though.
After trying the l-dopa stack for the first time and then eating high carb/high calorie my memory went to shit afterwards and I ācrashedā/felt tired and less motivated. āThe half life of Sinemet immediate release is 90 minutes. Sinemet is a combination medicine that contains levodopa and carbidopa. Levodopa is converted into dopamine in the brain and carbidopa inhibits an enzyme called decarboxylase, which breaks down levodopa before it gets to the brain. Carbidopa increases the half-life of levodopa from approximately 50 minutes to 90 minutes. Sinemet is used to treat symptoms of Parkinsonās disease. The duration of effect of Sinemet is approximately three to four hours for immediate-release tablets.ā
Will try another bump of l-dopa ~300 mg without the egcg piperine vitamin B1 to see if any difference
10/11/21
stopping test stuff (tongkat/tribulus) for a few days to a week to "resensitize" to them while continuing to focus on increasing dopamine and lowering prolactin through l-dopa and bromantane
also need to focus on fasting and eating healthier (maybe even adding in some exercise)
nicotine and nasal spray will be completely eliminated
need to make sure bromantane isn't impairing memory
have been using low dose Huperzine-A to offset any potential anticholinergic effects of bromantane
10/14/21
Anxious etc this morning from the odd sleep schedule/ājet lagā (waking up at 4:30 AM and sleeping 11 PM yesterday and then sleeping for 9.5 hours last night) and likely too much dopamine as well as taking high dose vitamin B1/Thiamine at the same time. Bromantane could be impairing memory?
Also bromantane/l-tyrosine is redundant with l-dopa and only one should be continued
Sublingual bromantane dose may be too high at 100 mg. Might lower to 50 mg sublingual or completely discontinue to avoid anticholinergic and serotonin increasing effects (it might be impairing memory beyond what Huperzine-A can offset)?
Realized not a good idea to use more than 50 mg bromantane sublingually
Plan for tomorrow:
Sleep better
No Thiamine/Vitamin B1
No bromantane/L-tyrosine
No Huperzine-A
Normal 300 mg dose of L-dopa
Avoid taking B-6 in the morning with L-dopa because negates effects
Maybe test the effects of EGCG/piperine/fish oil again with the L-dopa to minimize peripheral metabolism and maximize the dopamine increase in the brain.
10/15/21
Deep sleep has declined too much so I'm not recovering from waking at 4:30. I need to figure out why. might be due to overnight dopamine depletion interfering with sleep quality. Been waking up feeling drained and tired. Will avoid l-dopa for a few days and stick with the bromantane lower dose sublingual + l-tyrosine as dopamine boosters for a few days instead to see if it is more sustainable. Will also take anti-prolactin B6 in the afternoon instead to see if it helps more without interfering with L-dopa metabolism.
Started this morning with just L-dopa 375 mg, 2 tribulus, creatine, caffeine, NR 1g, sodium butyrate, BHB etc. skipped the bromantane and l-tyrosine for a bit too, but then decided to just take a lower 50 mg dose of bromantane without the L-tyrosine instead. Also for the last 3 days, Iāve been using Bang energy drinks as caffeine source which contain methylcobalamin instead of the cyanocobalamin found in rockstars. The extra methyl groups could be increasing choline levels by decreasing the need for their methyl groups which could be interfering with mood.
Need to avoid methylcobalamin (B12) and choline for a bit but also high dose bromantane.
Might try l-tyrosine 1-2 g + bromantane 50 mg for a bit instead of the L-dopa stuff? Also, it was probably too soon to take the tribulus at 2 capsules or even a single capsule esp without food. Will try again in 2 days with a single pill, maybe with food and tongkat.
also pinched nerve or something in muscles near the shoulder blade, not sure if related to supplements etc. heat compress and sleep fixed slightly.
10/16/21
Morning:
l-tyrosine 1-2 g
creatine 5 g
bromantane 50 mg sublingual lower lip
l-dopa 450 mg
1 egcg capsule
4 fish oils
1 tongkat ali tablet
1 tribulus capsule
550 kcal oatmeal
12 mg Huperzine-A
400 mg caffeine
Magnesium BHB 2 g
Sodium butyrate 2 capsules
Vitamin D3 5000 IUs
100 mg Vitamin B6/P-5-P
125 mcg Vitamin B12/methylcobalamin
High dose B6/p-5-p lowered prolactin too much and interferes with L-dopa too even when taken in evening 8+ hours after l-dopa (will stop high dose B6 for now)
10/18/21
took tongkat (1 tablet) and tribulus (1 capsule) before everything else
then skipped Creatine and Magnesium BHB
if anything, will bring back creatine
eventually will stop taking butyrate entirely
P-5-P lowered prolactin too much lol
still took 400 mg L-dopa, 15 mg Huperzine-A, 2 g L-tyrosine and 50 mg Bromantane
sexual symptoms almost back to normal too (prolactin lowering effects of P-5-P were too strong and actually counterproductive since prolactin was already in the low/normal range)
nicotine with current stack magnifies all cognitive symptom improvements even beyond baseline
Take a break from Huperzine-A tomorrow and for a few days maybe. replace it with nicotine instead and then get off nicotine too. maybe eat eggs for choline tomorrow as well
too many processed carbs, bromantane, Huperzine-A withdrawal, or choline depletion due to chronic NR supplementation is worsening memory unfortunately
need to figure that out
10/20/21
Skip Huperzine-A, Nicotine and/or take more NR on egg/choline days since it increases choline too much leading to depression
Also EGCG didn't make too big of a difference when taking L-dopa (~400 mg) on brain dopamine levels if anything it made things worse. will stop EGCG when using L-dopa for now (might need piperine and/or fish oil along with it to effectively inhibit peripheral DOPA-decarboxylase.
stop sodium Butyrate and maybe NR too for a bit to see if same without
use 500 mg L-DOPA
10/21/21
Took tongkat and 2 tribulus after shit night sleep overeating before bed. Estrogen lowered too much by Tongkat.
need to wake up naturally without being dependent on caffeine supplements etc to wake up
might try eliminating L-dopa and/or L-tyrosine+Bromantane
Skipped Huperzine-A and memory took a hit
Took 420 mg L-DOPA and the normal 1-2 g L-tyrosine with 50 mg Bromantane
skipped sodium butyrate too but still took NR. Might need to start sodium Butyrate again
also took very low dose methylcobalamin which still had issues (only take 1-2 times per week spaced out from now on)
Didn't work today, cognitive symptoms not working
Need to take breaks from Tongkat/Tribulus and only take Tongkat like 1-2 times per week if at all. Also only take 1 tribulus at a time and if possible, just before a meal, no more than 2 per day.
eat big breakfast (low carb: <10 g) on mornings of 12 hour days so you don't eat high kcal/carbs right before bed
10/24/21
stopped taking butyrate for a few days to see if it was no longer needed and realized I still needed it. when I started taking it again test/dopamine stuff worked better etc and digestion improved
Also, I've been taking lower dose tribulus/tongkat (1 capsule and half a tablet respectively) instead of trying to push the doses higher (especially on an empty stomach usually increases sympathetic drive too high with sweaty palms etc and can make cognitive symptoms worse)
I still wonder if concurrent supplementation with L-tyrosine+bromantane and L-DOPA is redundant. Maybe I only need one. Also worried about chronic bromantane and Huperzine-A adversely affecting memory/mood
Huperzine-A being an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor certainly has lowered my choline-induced depression threshold. Just 3 eggs was enough to trigger depression on the same morning as 15 mg Huperzine-A
10/25/21
everything is 100% fixed back to baseline except for full androgen signaling dominance/drive and sensitivity (might need a few more on/off cycles of tongkat/tribulus)
also getting too dependent on supplement stack to wake up in the morning. need to make sure improvements and healing from sodium Butyrate, L-dopa, bromantane and L-tyrosine sustain after getting off all of them
even with 6hrs of sleep and faux-jet lag from waking at 4:30, enough caffeine was able to reverse all fatigue throughout the day (400 mg morning, 200 mg afternoon, 100 mg around 5:30)
Huperzine-A and nicotine unnecessary since they increase acetylcholine too much especially without the NR supplementation. need to be careful and only use Huperzine-A ā¤3x per week.
10/27/21
yep, Huperzine-A to counteract sides of bromantane seems most effective when taken every 2-3 days instead of daily to prevent excessive cholinergic side effects like anxiety/depression/insecurity/rumination etc. Might be adjustable when taking NR daily again (will have to test when using lower 300mg NR dose)
much better test/androgenic sensitivity effects in the morning when fasted (carbs previous day) at 550 mg L-dopa, 1 tribulus capsule, half a tongkat capsule (maybe prevents tongkat from lowering estrogen too much?) Also took B-complex (every 2 days) and caffeine as 400mg in the morning and 200 mg at 3 pm. needed to fast whole day to achieve effects
Need to see if same effects of caffeine can be achieved at only 200 mg (possibly ~1 hr after waking) in the morning followed by the second 200 mg at 11:30 am or 1:30 pm
10/28/21
Felt hypomanic and energetic during the entire 36 hr fast especially after 24hrs but once I ate the following day (two unhealthy slices of pizza), blood sugar regulation got fucked and heart rate was rapid plus HRV was extremely low for 3-5 hrs after eating. Need potent berberine again to regulate blood sugar or need to avoid carbs entirely for 1-2 hours after long fasts. Even after short fasts, I think I should break them with protein and limit carbs (even fiber) for 1-2 hrs after the protein.
Also took a second half tongkat capsule later in the day to try to lower blood sugar but I think it did the opposite. Will also try caffeine soon to see if it has any effect
Also took Huperzine-A 15mg in the morning to counteract poor memory effects of bromantane
Might try just the 500 mg of L-dopa for a few days without the bromantane and l-tyrosine too see if anticholinergic sides diminish. But also need to consider the potential choline-depleting effects of NR.
Felt somewhat nauseous and got sweaty palms 1hr after taking 550 mg l-dopa 30 hrs into the fast
10/29/21
Chronic nicotine seems to have caused insulin resistance (literally caused tingling/pins and needles sensation on heels of feet almost like diabetic neuropathy)
need to take a nicotine break for a few days and definitely avoid any food 12 hrs before or up to 5 hrs after using nicotine
planning to use berberine to stabilize blood glucose too
tried chromium 1000 mg to lower blood sugar instead of berberine and I think it worked. will keep chromium and berberine with me at all times for emergencies in the future
HRV was much higher this morning (69-71) but blood glucose was still higher than I'd like in the morning at 98
hand tremor completely disappeared when fasting for 24hrs but reappeared immediately after eating
11/1/21
Hand tremor appears at low heart rate (~68 bpm) even in the fasted state potentially due to excessive caffeine or could be related to chronic l-dopa at 500mg/day. Might need to take B1 or something else to limit any toxic effects and will definitely taper off at the one month mark 11/10/21. If necessary will introduce strong oxidative stress protectors (reduced glutathione, NAC etc) and BDNF/NGF boosters to heal the [dyskinesia ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levodopa-induced_dyskinesia)essential tremor etc peripheral nervous system.
āNicotine (administered by dermal adhesive patches) has also been shown to improve Levodopa-induced dyskinesia and other PD symptoms.ā
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-DOPA
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_dysregulation_syndrome
](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_dysregulation_syndrome)āThe long term use of L-Dopa increases oxidative stress through monoamine oxidase led enzymatic degradation of synthesized dopamine causing neuronal damage and cytotoxicity. The oxidative stress is caused by the formation of reactive oxygen species (H2O2) during the monoamine oxidase led metabolism of dopamine. It is further perpetuated by the richness of Fe2+ ions in striatum via the Fenton reaction and the intracellular auto-oxidation. The increased oxidation can potentially cause mutations in the DNA due to the formation of 8-oxoguanine which is capable of pairing with adenosine.ā
11/2/21
Nootropics Depot Kava last night slept really deeply and long
I also took Nootropics Depot Cistanche this morning with other Testosterone boosters and also fasted the whole day. Felt super clear headed confident etc
Finally took 350 mg NR this morning too which definitely gave me more energy
not using the bromantane was a good choice, L-dopa seems to be more powerful without the bromantane side effects
11/3/21
slept like shit after eating all calories including a significant amount of candy right before bed and went to bed at 1am instead of 10 pm
eating vegetables first and taking berberine + chromium + cinnamon was not able to offset detrimental effects of this choice on sleep quality and morning heart rate variability which declined from 70 to 60 overnight (morning readiness score skewed sympathetic from 7 to 4)
need to get that crap out of my body and stop putting it in
also need to fast and not eat all calories right before bed next time (especially carbs)
when breaking 36 hr fast tomorrow, I need to break it slow with protein.
might want to optimize thyroid T3/T4 with L-tyrosine iodine and selenium (seaweed and Brazil nuts respectively)
11/9/21
need to cycle off test stuff and back on to keep getting benefits with libido/D etc
also need to take a break from the l-dopa/L-tyrosine on 11/11/21 to give body a chance to rest
also need to try creatine again
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Bro, I am glad youāre finding success. I wonder, do you have any muscular atrophy/dystrophy symptoms? What symptoms do/did you have exactly?
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Thank you! I hope you do soon too. I never experienced muscular atrophy/dystrophy to my knowledge, but did experience a loss of muscle tone (harder to coordinate and tense/flex muscles on command).
I had mainly cognitive and sexual sides. Mentally, I experienced severe memory impairment, flattening of affect and amotivation/low energy. Sexually, my D could never get past like 60-70% erect, orgasms were shit, I had barely any sexual desire/libido, and finally I could only experience an erection with physical stimulation (no visual arousal or getting turned on/horny looking at attractive women).
Hey to come back on this theory, wouldnāt the use of stimulants be a faster way to induce higher dopamine levels?
I would think so, and people like Leoandlongevity do advocate for the use of Wellbutrin/Bupropion to recover from PFS. However, there may be something specific to L-dopa and Bromantane + L-tyrosine for that matter, because they chronically increase dopamine production above baseline (via providing more direct substrate or increasing the production of the enzymes that convert precursors to dopamine respectively). This mechanism differs from that of stimulants like Adderall or Wellbutrin because they instead increase the amount of dopamine available at the synapse by forcing more to be released and/or less to be transported away.
Perhaps a stimulant and L-dopa or Bromantane + L-tyrosine could be combined to achieve a greater synergistic recovery than either alone. However, I would immediately be concerned by the risk of dopaminergic excitotoxicity and other adverse events due to chronic hyperdopaminergic brain states.
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How are you doing by the way? Still feeling good?
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Thanks for asking. Iāve been off everything for a week now except NR, caffeine, nicotine lozenges, Huperzine-A, Vitamin D3, and magnesium bisglycinate before bed. I will get off NR, nicotine lozenges and Huperzine-A (stopped working after 3 consecutive days) soon as well.
Mentally, I feel 80-90% recovered. Iām not experiencing anhedonia and am having much less memory trouble. The amotivation related to altered dopamine signaling is still somewhat present, but has improved considerably. Finally, my flattened affect/emotional blunting/anxiety and depression symptoms have also improved but arenāt back to 100% yet.
Physically and sexually, I feel closer to 70-80% recovered, especially after quitting L-dopa and the testosterone boosting herbs (Tongkat, Tribulus, Cistanche). In other words, things have been hit or miss/unstable. Sometimes, I can get 80-90% erect, other times (especially during increased vasoconstriction from stimulants and/or fasting, eating unhealthy, poor sleep), I can barely get 50-60%. Libido-wise, I usually still feel less horny and visually aroused than before Finasteride or while on the supplements mentioned before, although there were a few days where my libido/erectile function almost returned to baseline.
Moving forward, at the end of December, Iām hoping to do a few more cycles of the herbal supplements, L-dopa and/or Bromantane + L-tyrosine. I may even reintroduce sodium butyrate again depending on how much more I think it would help (itās pretty expensive). The NR interestingly hasnāt been doing much for me lately especially on its own. Finally, in addition to those supplements, beginning January 2022, Iām planning to get several hours of intense cardio per week (biking or swimming) and/or weight training where possible coupled with 8-9 hours of consistent high quality sleep each night. I will also eliminate the processed food Iāve been eating too often during 2021 and fast less regularly. Iām already eating both breakfast and dinner now instead of just dinner which has helped my libido/sexual function as long as I donāt eat too close to bed (last meal 4+ hours before bed seems best), consume irritating/unhealthy/proinflammatory food, or eat too much food at once in general.
I will also receive extensive blood test results in the next few days and will post them here once available:
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As promised (I think my lower estrogen level might be partially to blame for the lack of a full libido/erectile recovery. This could be caused by chronic use of tongkat ali which acts as an antiestrogen):
FIRST FINASTERIDE USE:
STARTED ON: 03/15/20
QUIT ON: 08/15/2020
TREATMENT DURATION: 5 months
START RECOVERY: ~11/15/20 (+3 months post Finasteride quitting)
FULL RECOVERY: 02/03/21 (+5.5 months post Finasteride)
HORMONAL CHANGES:
9/9/20 (~1 MO POST-QUITTING FIN SALIVARY)
E: 1.1/2.2 pg/mL (50% max)
T: 203/148 pg/mL (137% max)
D: N/A
1/6/21 (4.75 MO POST-QUITTING FIN BLOOD FULLY RECOVERED)
E: 25/29 pg/mL (86% max)
T: 823/1100 ng/dL; FT: 77.6/155 pg/mL (75% max; 50% max)
D: 35/65 ng/dL (54% max)
T/E: 33; FT/E: 3.1
SECOND FINASTERIDE USE:
STARTED ON: 2/6/21
QUIT ON: 5/19/21 about 3 months after starting 2nd time
FULL RECOVERY: ~11/07/21 (~6 months post Finasteride)
HORMONAL CHANGES:
3/15/21 (1.34 MO AFTER STARTING FIN BLOOD)
E: 33/29 pg/mL (114% max)
T: 942/1100 ng/dL; FT: 102/155 pg/mL (86% max; 66% max)
D: 21/65 ng/dL (32% max)
SHBG: 51/50 (102% max)
T/E: 29; FT/E 3.1
12/13/21 (~7 MO POST-QUITTING FIN BLOOD FULLY RECOVERED)
E: 16/29 pg/mL (55% max)
T: 571/1100 ng/dL; FT: 80.2/155 pg/mL (52% max; 52% max)
D: 31/65 ng/dL (48% max)
SHBG: 39/50 (78% max)
T/E: 36 ; FT/E: 5
@lowestprime - do you have a member story? It might be better to post your blood work there, so itās easier for people to follow your progress. (Instead of posting to a thread thatās ostensibly about NR).
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I do, itās quite old but I can post them there too.
I fixed the residual sexual and cognitive sides after realizing my Estradiol/E2 was too low (~16 pg/mL) below my baseline (~25-30 pg/mL) presumably due to chronic Tongkat use etc.
Details here: