New PFS member onboard

Dear Community!

I’ve just received my 2nd blood test (after 1,5 months of previous test) that I had to make because of my tribulus crash.
Results as of below:

TSH 2,420 (0,550 - 4,780)
FT4 18,33 pmol/l (11,50 - 22,7)
FT3 4,10 pmol/L (3,50 - 6,50)
FSH 5,9 IU/L (1,4 - 18,1)
LH 2,8 IU/L (1,5 - 9,3) lowish
Prolaktin 78,0 mIU/l (45,0 - 375,0)
Estrogen 134,5 pmol/l (0,0 - 146,1) HIGH
Progeszteron 1,50 nmol/l (0,89 - 3,88)
Testosterone 16,320 nmol/l (5,720 - 26,140)
Free Testosterone 1,20% (1,53 - 2,88) LOW
Free Testosterone concentration 0,196 nmol/l (0,198 - 0,619) LOW
Bioative testosterone conc. 5,310 nmol/l (4,360 - 14,300)
Bioactive testosterone % 32,5% (35,0 - 66,3) LOW
SHBG 60,0 nmol/l (17,3 - 65,8)
DHEA-S 8,65 umol/l (0,94 - 15,44)
Cortisol 566,1 nmol/L (118.6 - 618.0)

I’ve done further tests on red and white blood cells too.
Red blood cells 4,1 T/L - 4,5 5,9 LOW
White blood cells 3,6 G/L - 4,4 11,3 LOW

So compared to my previous test 1,5 months ago (see earlier posts above), major changes are:

  • free T levels lowered slightly
  • bioactive levels lowered slightly
  • total T levels raised slightly
  • E2 level lowered slightly
  • SHBG levels raised

I appreciate everyones advise, what should I do?

See a doc man the reasons for low RCC and WBC should be investigated. Low RBC and WBC count could be indicative of something else going on seperate from PFS. Address that first and see how you feel, at least you have identified problems to fix from your bloods.

Hi @whathaveidone4669! Thx man, do you think thats more worrying than the endocrine low free T high e2?

It’s complicated and hard to say. That being said you have evidence of anemia (low RBC) which can have a broad influence on stuff going on in your body. The same is true for low WBCs. It’s possible that if you can normalise these factors first (or work out the cause) that could help improve hormonal issues (this is just an educated guess, i’m no expert). Importantly in many cases, anemia can be addressed relatively easily following appropriate investigation, not as sure about leukopenia (low WBCs). Hormal issues are not quite as simple to treat.

See your GP try and get referred to a haematologist or endocrinologist :slight_smile:

Thanks a lot for your helpful comment! Bests to you!

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Bought an iron supplement for a quick restart of red blood count (have also lower iron level)

Hey man how are you doing now did you sort out your strange bloods?

Hey @whathaveidone4669 ! Thx for asking!

I donno yet :smiley: I have bought an iron + B vitamins complex syrup supplement, take it daily since a month now. I havent taken blood tests since. I feel slight improvements in my chronic fatigue though, as if my energy bounced back a little bit, however I developed a new mental symptoms since , anxiety.

I take my next blood test on June 26th. I will post here where I am then.

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Heyy all,

Its been 3 months that I’ve crashed on tribulus to a more severe PFS sympthoms, and 4,5 months I had my crash on fin.
I wanted to give you an update how i am doing, what has changed for the better or worse since.

So here is what I had after tribulus crash:

  • chronic fatigue
  • penile and testicular shrinkage
  • testicular pain
  • no sex drive (my least worry)
  • burning skin sensation
  • hair loss / thinning
  • body hair loss
  • slowed and weaker beard growth
  • horrible digestion (slow and bad stomach, almost never have stool)
  • muscle wastage
  • easy weight gain
  • facial swelling, puffiness
  • dry skin on hands palm
  • tinnitus sensation

Now here is what has resolved, stayed the same or worsened:

  • chronic fatigue (STAYED)
  • depression (IMPROVED A LOT, CAN BE HAPPY SOMETIMES NOW)
  • penile and testicular shrinkage (PENILE SIZE AND WEIGHT IMPROVED A LOT, HOWEVER TESTICULAR SIZE KEPT SMALLER)
  • testicular pain (RESOLVED, REAPPEARS VERY RARELY NOW)
  • no sex drive (IMPROVED, I GET DESIRE TIME TO TIME AGAIN)
  • burning skin sensation (COMPLETELY RESOLVED)
  • hair loss / thinning (STAYED THE SAME, TELOGEN EFFLUVIUM CAUSED BY CRASH DIET AND SEVERE STRESS ON PFS)
  • dry hair (STAYED)
  • body hair loss (SLOWED DOWN)
  • slowed and weaker beard growth (IMPROVED TO ALMOST PRE-FIN)
  • horrible digestion (slow and bad stomach, almost never have stool) (IMPROVED, THOUGH STILL GET STOMACH GROWLING SOMETIMES AFTER EATING)
  • muscle wastage (STAYED THE SAME, YET I HAVENT GONE TO GYM SINCE FEBRUARYY DUE TO CORONAVIRUS)
  • easy weight gain (I CONTROL MY WEIGHT FINE WITH KETO DIET)
  • facial swelling, puffiness (GONE, BACK TO LEAN, MASCULIN FACE NOW)
  • dry skin on hands palm (IMPROVED)
  • tinnitus sensation (GONE, RETURNS VERY FEW TIME)

So as you see, fortunately I made a a lot of improvements within 3 months.
Energy:
My major concern keeps to be chronic fatigue. At latest from the early afternoons I get very sleepy every day, no matter what i’ve done the day before or how much I’ve slept, its just not the energy I had pre-fin. Having said that, with my low energy I have much less motivation or joy to do things.
Muscles:
Feels weaker, and despite doing cardio like 3x a week, I dont really feel muscle gain in legs. I have general muscle mass loss since my fin crash, but i also ceased going to gym due to covid since January. If I see my estrogens decline to normal, I’ll start to raise my carbs intake and with it I will return to weight lifting again.
Sexual sides:
As of the improvements though, my imrpovements of my sexual sides give me the most hope. My penile tissue and weight just seems much nicer since a month or so, not dry and flaccid anymore. My testicles kept being lost in size, but i noticed, they shrink severely before stools. Now I want to ask if anyone has it similar? But fortunately they regain their natural hanging position after, so it doesnt bother me. The biggest jackpot is, that i have sexual desire sometimes, and can get like a 60% spontaneous erection compared to pre-fin.
Digestion:
I believe my digestion improved compared to the weeks after my tribulus crash. Meaning I have regular healthy stools, and no unecessary fat deposition, no bloating after meals. Yet I cant really tell how efficient my fat burning is, because I’m on keto diet since the crash, and i can only tell it is efficient when I return to a carb unrestricted diet.
Hair:
I lost tonnes of scalp hair all over (telogen effluvium), as well as have less dense eyebrows and pubic hair now. Yet I dont worry about it anymore cause I’m sure its reversible, since I suspect the

  • crash diet I made (sudden keto diet with very low daily calorie intake)
  • 10 kg (I was 80 kg) muscle and general weight loss within 1 month,
  • severe mental stress on the fin and trib crash
  • sudden hormonal changes (high e2, low free T’s)

which my body went through. I also got very dry and brittle hair since crash. But since these seems to have stabilized by now, they might regrow within 6-12 months. My beard already kicked back to pre-fin level, which tells me my DHT functions again normally, along my improved sexual sides this may indicate it as well.
Skin:
My skin issue was visible on 2 places so far on my body: At my hand’s palms, and my penile tissue. Now penile tissues dryness has been totally gone, (while its weight increased too) and I would say my hands palms also improved like 50%, got back more moisture. So again more tissues, where I can feel DHT is restarting to work again. My hands btw tend to become dryer towards the evenings, giving me a sensation if my hands were dirty, I can see the wrinkles a little bit white, but on the next morning they always fully healthy again. So I wonder if its also caused by tonnes of hand washings due to covid.

I’ve changed a lot compared to myself in January, I became from a muscular, long dark haired energetic youthful looking stud to a skinny, short unhealthy haired, and weak looking aging guy. But having said all of my improvements i would summerize like I found hope that I’m improving from this nightmare. If you like to ask me what have I done that I’ve made so great improvements, I would say I dont know if any of my practices helped, but I’ve done the followings:

  • keto diet (only with meat and cruciferous veggies)
  • regular cardio excersize (30min at most / day) on empty stomach
  • intermittent fasting (14-18 hours fasting every day)
  • avoiding PFS forum for most of time (only looked for nutritions what to eat, or not to eat, because peoples symptoms complaints made me often depressed and started myself to have their symptoms as a placebo like tinnitus or skin burning sensation)
  • trust I gained in my body after I’ve seen sexual sides improvement
  • joy that my brain fully functions (no brain fog, only lack of motivation to do things and chronic fatigue)
  • supplements: i take only 1 multivit pill every day withount Zinc, 1 probiotics every day, 2 digestive enzyme supps woth every meal, zero carb protein shake after cardio. I also eat half bar of dark chocolate every day, for minimal amount of resveratrol. Also i take iron supp daily cause i had low red blood count and iron in my last blood test.
    Note: I followed many diet and lifestyle suggestions from @Ozeph

I had my last blood results on May 8th, see my post above in this story. I will take my next on June 26th, I will let all of you know if improved physical and mental state is reflected in anyways in my blood picture.

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keep us posted about your progress brother.
Good to hear that you’ve recovered from many of the symptoms.

Would you recommend a tribulus course, since it has helped many sufferers?

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Hey @Casual thx, I wouldnt call recovery on those symptoms rather improvements at this point :slight_smile:

I would suggest to everyone with PFS to stay away of trib. I think it will convert into too high E2-s which might make your dick shrink and all the other horror may follow. I think honestly that that supp is dangerous on us, no matter which brand you buy. even if it helped some, we just donno why it did, why it harmed to others.

Hey my merck-hater mates! I have my blood test results:

TSH 1,780 (0,550 - 4,780)
FT4 17,12 pmol/l (11,50 - 22,7)
FT3 4,25 pmol/L (3,50 - 6,50)
FSH 6,8 IU/L (1,4 - 18,1)
LH 3,9 IU/L (1,5 - 9,3) lowish
Estrogen 99,4 pmol/l (0,0 - 146,1)
Progeszteron 1,20 nmol/l (0,89 - 3,88)
Testosterone 20,660 nmol/l (5,720 - 26,140)
Free Testosterone 1,30% (1,53 - 2,88) LOW
Free Testosterone concentration 0,269 nmol/l (0,198 - 0,619)
Bioative testosterone conc. 7,290 nmol/l (4,360 - 14,300)
Bioactive testosterone % 35,3% (35,0 - 66,3) LOW
SHBG 54,3 nmol/l (17,3 - 65,8)
DHEA-S 8,07 umol/l (0,94 - 15,44)
Cortisol 470,6 nmol/L (118.6 - 618.0)
Vit D 56,7 nmol/l

I’ve done further tests on red and white blood cells too.
Red blood cells 4,3 T/L - 4,5 5,9 LOW
White blood cells 5,6 G/L - 4,4 11,3

So its a big relieve! I have progress on almost every value, especially by raising T and lowering estrogens. I was supplementing iron, so i managed to raise my blood count. I managed to balance my hormones resulting a better T/E2 ratio. Still, my free T’s are low, yet i managed to raised it, by lowering SHBG. Cortisol levels also lower which reflect my mental progress (posted above) as well,less depression, no stress.

I’m thankful for your thoughts on my blood results, what should i do to progress further, especially how to raise my free T’s. Thanks!

That’s a huge improvement, clap clap :slight_smile: It is good to hear that people recover naturally, because all of our symptoms are mostly due to hormonal imbalance. It seems like your body is finding its balance pretty good.

Yes man. To my understanding after researching this forum and pfs on the web, this disease goes like 1. Hormonal imbalance fcks you 2. After your hormones settled you have to see how many of your symptoms did. If you havent improved some of your symptoms after healthy hormones balance, on those areas you suffered AR silencing or neurotransmitter malfunctions (which is a long term recovery on pfs)
Kinda like after the storm is gone you see the damage you have to deal with for long time to fix…

Hey all!
I wanted to give an update about my situation as I reached my 7th month with PFS.

I had an interesting 3-4 weeks of great improvements. I had a bit of returning libido, fuller, thicker penile size and also more pleasure at orgasms. Also nocturnal erections and morning wood returned sometimes. I felt like reborn at these few weeks,completely forgot about PFS those weeks. All I can say improvement happened just when I returned to weight lifting after 6 months of brake.

Then after a 3 night out weekend with drinking and less sleep, my penile quality, libido and orgasm pleasure declined again to my PFS baseline. So did some stress and depression return to some degree. I didn’t change anything, didn’t take any hormonal stuff that could have caused the setback, so I have no idea what did I wrong, other than perhaps alcohol and long nights out could have caused the return of the bad place.

FATIGUE:
my main concern since things have stabilized and I see what are my major symptoms is fatigue.
I cant ever feel fresh even though I sleep well. I dont experience any insomnia since my crash in february, yet I feel exhausted all the time. At worst days I need a huge motivation to leave my house to buy even food.
Only time I kind of feel more energized is when I’m drinking alcohol, its also the reason why I let myself to go out drinking once or twice a weekend.
And also around the middle of a weight lifting session I feel a bit more energized.
So for me behind all of my mental problems (lack of motivation, lack of positive emotions, stress) chronic fatigue may be behind it, because its the thing that constantly reminds me to have PFS.

Question at this point: DID FATIGUE EVER IMPROVE FOR YOU (If you had it with PFS) ? DO YOU HAVE ANY TIPPS HOW TO TACKLE CHRONIC FATIGUE?

On the positive side I still can report some improvement as posted earlier: my digestion feels to have recovered, I dont get bloated of anything, I dont gain unwanted fat. As I started weight lifting I see little bit of strenghtening muscles, but its too early to report if I manage to regain my old muscle mass which was +12 kg compared to now. (i lost 25% of my body weight, with just loosing my muscle mass within a month)
Also positive that I dont have diffuse hair shedding anymore, my hair at least started slowly to recover from this anti-hairloss drug induced hair loss. :confused:

So I’ve seen some great weeks of partial recovery but then fell back to PFS baseline. It gives me hope at least that better days could come back. I took my last blood test in the end of june (see above) I will take my next to see which directions my system adjusted since in second half of september. I’ll post it here then.

Thanks in advance for your help about my question on fatigue!

I have my latest blood test done, after 3 months it was time to see which direction my hormones are balancing. So its as follows:

TSH 2,620 (0,550 - 4,780)
FT4 17,2 pmol/l (11,50 - 22,7)
FT3 4 pmol/L (3,50 - 6,50)
FSH 6,8 IU/L (1,4 - 18,1)
LH 2,8 IU/L (1,5 - 9,3) lowish
Estrogen 145,1 pmol/l (0,0 - 146,1) high
Progeszteron 2,28 nmol/l (0,89 - 3,88)
Testosterone 17,60 nmol/l (5,720 - 26,140)
Free Testosterone 1,59% (1,53 - 2,88) lowish
Free Testosterone concentration 0,280 nmol/l (0,198 - 0,619)
Bioative testosterone conc. 7,580 nmol/l (4,360 - 14,300)
Bioactive testosterone 43,1% (35,0 - 66,3) lowish
SHBG 39,2 nmol/l (17,3 - 65,8)
DHEA-S 9,05 umol/l (0,94 - 15,44)
Cortisol 520,6 nmol/L (118.6 - 618.0)
Vit D 66,8 nmol/l lowish

I’ve done further tests on red and white blood cells too.
Red blood cells 4,4 T/L - 4,5 5,9 LOW
White blood cells 4,8 G/L - 4,4 11,3

Progress: i managed to lower since my crash the first time SHBG (with high protein diet) and freed up finally some available testosterone. I could raise already my vit D a bit with the 1000UI / day supplement
Setback: i have upper edge of estrogens again.

As far as i’m doing:
Progress: I have bit more energy ,hitting regulalry the gym, able to control anxiety finally. Able to sleep 8-9h by the time which is brilliant.
Still bad: I have still testicular atrophy, low libido, low ejacuation pleasure, depressive mood waves. Still suffer lack in drive for life I had pre-finasteride. Furthermore I still couldnt regain my muscle mass, though Ikeep workout with patience.

Opinions appreciated.

Hey man, I don’t know enough about hormone tests (broadly, I think they’re difficult to make use of at all in relation to our condition), but I think your ability to sleep well is a real good sign, and maybe a lot of what stands between a middling and good recovery for you are consistent healthy lifestyle and psychological aspects (ie. your mood, how you are viewing things).

How is your testicular shrinkage? does it vary throughout the day? is it sometimes back to normal? is it mainly much worse around going to the toilet? I have the symptom but because I answer Yes to those questions I’ve kind of come to terms with it as an annoying hindrance but not a serious permanent issue.

If your mind is good (no brain fog) and your penis is basically full size compared to pre-fin, then only the orgasm issue and libido seem like something to worry about, mainly the orgasm one, and who knows how that may improve with more time. I’d say that accepting the testicular issues as superficial and focusing on how far you’ve come in all other areas might lead to less depressive episodes and in general the kind of good contented feeling that comes (as both you and I have experienced) with strong recovery periods.

All the best.

Hey @maybe thanks for your very helpful and constructive comment.

I totally agree, i was at my worst when i couldnt sleep at all at the first weeks after the crash, and then only 4-6 hours every night for around 2-3 months. But sleep has become no issue since around june which was maybe thanks to stabilizing hormone balance or the fact I could handle my situation mentally. I started to find out that in some part I can control anxiety that enables you good sleep and decreases brain fog. I definately think good sleep is the fundament for recovery.

My shrinkage seems to be permanent on testicles. I lost prolly 30-40% of their original size, they feel weightless and empty. Only short period show them hanging lower like in hot weather. Its like if they werent producing any testosterone, its just horrible. And then yes, they even get worse before having stools, they just wanna retract inside my body, pure nightmare. But the sexual sides I could manage to put away and focus on the future with no real sexual capabilities. Frightening that i might never touch a woman anymore because of 4 pills.

I totally agree with you man. I think with only this attitude we are able to gain back the joy for life we left with. I’m really happy to regained my cognitive capabilities prolly to a 95% pre-fin, that I’m able to control and decrease anxiety, that I’m able to sleep well again and even my energy has risen a little bit since a month, getting out of the dark chronic fatigue I got from 4 Propecia pills. I’m happy with what I’m left with if my situation dont worsen over time.
My current goal is to

  1. decrease frequency of depressive mood
  2. gain back my muscles mass (lost 12kg of muscles within a month after propecia). Thats why blood test is important for atm, I need to know if my free T’s are available finally again or my estrogens arent too high for that.
    Did you also have muscle atrophy? did you experience any improvements in that departments? Thanx man

Hm, I sometimes worry about my testicular shrinkage, because I can’t remember how big they were before, but I think I agree that I might have lost 30% or so. They also do feel quite light, but I can’t remember how they felt before.

I don’t think I ever had any real muscle loss, but I barely did enough exercise before or after taking the drug, anyhow. Maybe a little? Certainly nothing like what you’ve described, however. Hopefully with time you are able to rebuild. Muscle memory should help.

How are/were your cognitive symptoms? Did you ever have any brain fog, or just depressive mood? I continue, 6 months out, to have lingering attention and focusing issues which do vary, but are extremely annoying. Hope you don’t have to deal with any of this, and if you don’t, I’d say that’s a huge win for you man. Just keep your head up and focus on what you’ve still got going for you! I’d give anything to have no mental symptoms (with bad testicular atrophy and whatever) just because I think that’s the most important thing, and if you can focus on how clear and comfortable your mind is, hopefully your mood and happiness can follow!

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I definately had brain fog after crash. I could speak much slower, had difficulty express my thoughts on a high professional level. Note that I have my own company with 4 employees and other than managing my people and partners, I also do active sales to customers (B2B) so for me cognitive capabilities are highly demanded.
My luck was, that after my crash in february covid lock down came, so I didnt have to face customers and partners in person with my severe brain fog and anxiety.

So anyways, I did have brain fog , severe depression and anxiety for about 4 months. They started to improve around June. Why they did honestly I dont know. I suspect
A) my hormones stabilized after being totally altered by Propecia
B) I managed to get longer and deeper sleep again
C) or because I started to control anxiety
D) or combination of those

I’m really greatful indeed that I gained my cognitive capabilities back. I have frequently very challenging negotiations, presentations, meetings where I pretty much acted like pre-fin again, and I’m able to manage and solve problems.

The last bad mental side Propecia left me with is depression. Its too much origin from loss of libido so I havent learned yet to control that as i learned to overcome anxiety.

I’m happy to PM with you man to share experiences!