So does managing E2 levels can cure you? Have you tried anything? I think low E2 is just a secondary symptom of silenced AR. Also i suggest keto diet to cure your gut.
I have high e2 despite constant aromatase inhibition.
Also i am way more better with increased T/e2 ratio.
May be everybody reacts differently or some how pfs disturbed natural e2 production or change receptor effectiveness…
I have used ai everyday for two months and my e2 did not go down. stayed on 34 pg/ml
Yet if i stay in ai too long my dick looses girth.
If i take a brake then my libido goes down.
It is very hard to find correct t/e2 ratio.
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This is very, very interesting.
I have a few questions if you may:
- What is your Testosterone level?
- What is your DHT level?
- Did you use sensitive assay to measure your E2?
- What is your AI? Arimidex, Aromasin, Letrozol?
- Are you overweight?
- At what E2 level do you feel youe best?
- Did tou use finesteride? If yes, when did you quit?
Thanks pal.
This is very, very interesting.
I have a few questions if you may:
- What is your Testosterone level?
- What is your DHT level?
- Did you use sensitive assay to measure your E2?
- What is your AI brand and dose? Arimidex, Aromasin, Letrozol?
- Are you overweight?
- At what E2 level do you feel your best?
- Did you use finesteride? If yes, when did you quit?
Thanks pal.
.
One last question please. Are you currently on TRT?
I will share my ai progress link all the lab results are under it brother.
I have used it from 2005 to 2012 not sure about exact dates but 7 years we can say that.
I noticed softened erections while i was on fin i stopped it gone better then slowly worsened over time i lost libido after 9 months then ed worsened with reduced sensitivity i tried to use some male enhancement pills in 2016 contains yohambine pregneleon dhea and crashed on it so hard then my mental symptoms started. I got mental relief with methylfolate methylphenidate combination. Last summer i decided to quit from methylphenidate then i crashed so hard on libido i restarted it then went to see some urologists two of them told me that it is happened because of finasteride and there is no cure… then i started my research and found this forum and give a shot to aromatase protocol.
Yes i am little bit overweighted but muscular. Going gym 4 days per week.
In fact that, i can gain muscle so easily most of the people think that i am taking steroids.
No i am not on any TRT i am just taking Aromasin 25 mg every other day with cycles.
Supplements are fish oil, niacin, tribulus.
I’m not sure how to link low E2 with silenced AR. I would “speculate” that there is more T > DHT conversion (chronic rebound effect from stopping finesteride, maybe?) than T > E2 conversion. The end result is higher DHT and lower E2 leading to low E2 problems.
My E2 has become extremely sensitive to any changes in supplements, diet, sleep, stress, and even workout. When ever I manage to get it up to ~19 pg/ml, I feel like heaven on earth. Right now its only 11 pg/ml.
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Thanks for sharing your story. I checked your thread but couldn’t find any DHT result. I’m guessing you may have low T > DHT conversion and higher aromatase activity and thus high E2. That’s why you benefit from high T/E2 ratio. I was just like you before. I recall having high E2 and simply taking AIs would give me high sex drive and erections but that has changed over the years. I’m now suffering low E2 despite normal Testosterone levels.
Be extra careful with AIs though. They can be damaging in high doses and long term use.
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Yes brother unfortunately no DHT test.
I have recovered from most of the sides like joint pains and brain fog.
I was already started when people warned me about it but another benefit was that my way of thinking has also changed. I cannot explain but if you read my progress in months you can see it.
Best things happened to me is restored libido, visual lust and some restoration between brain and dick connection. I lost some of benefits yet i am way more better than before.
Man i had a refractory period of days.
Now i can cum 5 times per day easily even with partial erections…
I am able to achieve orgasm.
I can have normal sex life i take pde5 inhibitor.
Like you said this is dangerous on long term i am cycling it because in my 3rd month mild jaundice happened I eliminated supplements one by one and discovered that it is related with ai.
Yet I definitely prefer this level of functionality i am still searching for neurological and endocrinological solutions.
@Finfina Clomid stimulates the pituitary to make LH and FSH, which are the gonadotropins. Those 2 gonadotropins tell the testes to make testosterone and sperm.
Letrozol is like Arimidex and Aromasin and it way too powerful–it will knock out E2 and libido and erectile functioning get worse. PFS is not a too-much-estrogen problem! Letrozol and the other similar meds can make testosterone go up a bit, but for me, not enough to have any good effect.
Actually thats not the whole truth about Letrozol. For me it raised my testosterone to almost out of the range. And it didnt lower my E2 at all when I was on it. That was very confusing.
The only explanation to this is here: Letrozol has a dual mechanism of function. It doesn’t just affect the E2 <> Testosterone pathway, but also the Estrone E1 <> Androstenedione pathway, which can also raise T “behind the scenes”. So it may have lowered E1, raising Andro and ultimately T.
Anyway the outcome was a hard crash from it after 1 month of use. Rebound effect did come like it supposed to after cessation but E2 was stable all the time. Weird. And genital sensation lowered straight away when I started Letrozol. So testo skyrocketed but genital sensitivity and libido went down the cellar. On Letrozol morning wood and nocturnals were really hard, so hard that it hurt like hell at some point. Hard ons at night just lasted really long.
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Got it. Yeah. This is why I am skeptical of just one drug or treatment that will magically cure this. It’s a combination of things for me that helps (but not cures) some of my PFS symptoms, but not all of my PFS symptoms.
I was same with arimidex and aromasin. E2 did not changed but Free T quadrupled
I got immediate restoration of sensitivity, refractory period, libido and visual lust.
If your testicals are healthy aromatase inhibition will not crush estradiol completely worst case 30 percent reduction should be expected.
Think like this;
When you take first dose it will eliminate all estrogen in one day in response to this your brain thinks that your testeses are shut down and increase your gonadotropins to increase testicular steroid production then your balls generate testosterone to increase Estrogen. Until your estrogen levels saturate brain receptors your testosterone will keep increasing.
Why is this incomplete suppression happening? Because in testes, density of aromatase and testosterone are extremely high, almost impossible for ai to diffuse and exterminate all of it.
If your brain receptors are damaged or your testicals are failing then ai will not increase your T to supraphysiologic levels and your e2 will stay low.
This is very dangerous advice and I would urge everyone considering AIs to be extra cautious! AIs (Arimidex, Letrozo, Aromasin… etc.) & 5ARs (finesteride, dusteride… etc.) are similar in more ways than one. They both block enzymes needed for conversion of Testosterone to its metabolites and may block other chemicals in the body!
Ask anyone on TRT or AAS and see how tinkering with E2 is like playing with fire. I can attest to that since I always had high E2 and I used AIs at some point (BIG mistake) and despite the temporary improvements they ended up giving me myriad of issues including major depression, extreme lethargy, painful dry joints, altered liver enzymes, dead libido, lose of erections, skin issues, hair loss, frequent urination and others.
Right now my E2 is either borderline low or very low, always! It takes me forever to raise it and it’s quite sensitive to anything. Give me high E2 symptoms any day. I think blocking aromatase may have persistent or even permanent damage just like finesteride.
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This is very dangerous advice and I would urge everyone considering AIs to be extra cautious! AIs (Arimidex, Letrozo, Aromasin… etc.) & 5ARs (finesteride, dusteride… etc.) are similar in more ways than one. They both block enzymes needed for conversion of Testosterone to its metabolites and may block other chemicals in the body!
Ask anyone on TRT or AAS and see how tinkering with E2 is like playing with fire. I can attest to that since I always had high E2 and I used AIs at some point (BIG mistake) and despite the temporary improvements they ended up giving me myriad of issues including major depression, extreme lethargy, painful dry joints, altered liver enzymes, dead libido, lose of erections, skin issues, hair loss, frequent urination and others.
Right now my E2 is either borderline low or very low, always! It takes me forever to raise it and it’s quite sensitive to anything. Give me high E2 any day. I think blocking aromatase may have persistent or even permanent damage just like finesteride.
If you have high Testosterone then high E2 shouldn’t be a problem. It’s the T/E2 ratio that really matters. Aim for ratio in the range (15-30) and you’ll feel like a Superman. Thank me later
Should you need to lower E2, then go for a natural way:
Lose weight (fat)
Green tea
Olive oil
Zinc helps (again not in high doses)
Raise your Vitamin D if you’re deficient.
Fish oil also helps
Check my previous posts, I’ve listed many ways to lower E2.
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Brother do not misunderstand me, if you read my progress i warned everyone about dangers. I was notified after i started it and i did not stoped it.
I always say that people committed suicide because of this.
It is like a sense nuke to end a war if it backfires results will be catastrophic.
I wrote the scientific reason about why e2 do not crash on some people.
May be we prone to epigenetic changes more than normal population and body sets it self to new baseline of hormone ratios after constant usage who knows.
But i know this i am better and this does not mean everyone will get better on AI.
I have experienced extreme joint pains too with depression i even lost ability to perspective and hit my car several times.
Luckily i have recovered from them despite of constant ai inhibition.
I reduced to dose because mild jaundice and I never concealed any of the side effects.
Low estrogen definitely causes altered mind set because it directly modulates serotonin… specially to change serotonin binding to 5HT2A receptors.
So if you have low serotonin you will be extremely anxious and depressed but if you have high serotonin then you will feel better.
Because high serotonin also effects orgasm quality and refraction period.
Changing hormone levels has broad consequences there might be many other interactions that we might not know about yet.
As far as i read from this forum, there are people who gets better on ai and gets way more worse.
I’ve just started forskolin and took too much coffee, my anxiety levels are on the roof i am sure that forskolin has something to do with it, i will try to endure it for several more days.
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Thanks for providing clarifications. As you said, inhibting aromatase enzyme (and 5AR) is no joke and you may have some sort of a rare epigenetic changes leading to your elevated E2 despite AI usage. Heck, I remember taking only ~6mg Aromasin EOD and ended up feeling like hell on earth. I broke up with several girlfriends because I couldn’t sustain a relationship due to depression and sexual dysfunction and 99% of girls out there won’t understand it, trust me on this.
I couldn’t even keep communication with family and friends and it felt like a heavy burden that I’ve to endure. I think my Serotonin was way too low for far too long.
I also used Forskolin for several months because I thought it may help elevate Testosterone, but I wasn’t sure and it gave me bad GI symptoms. Caffeinated coffee stimulates Catecholamines (DA, NE, & A). If you’re converting DA to A quickly then you’ll experience severe anxiety especially if you have low Serotonin levels. You’ll also get cold hands and feet, pounding heart and GI problems.
Btw, caffeine may also lower E2 and change its metabolim and there’re studies. If it gives you bad symptoms then switch to decaf.
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Yes brother sudden change in e2 made me extremely tired in my first week of ai trial.
I was taking 40 mg methylphenidate plus modafinil plus coffee and i was still deadly tired and lethargic… if other guys did not warned me about it before i might scared to death and run in emergency.
I have started this because @JustQuitDut protocol seemed sound. I also made some research and check human trials for old age androgen restoration therapies.
Two of the urologists i have visited told me that finasteride caused my androgenic system aged more than normal and there is no cure except prosthetics… i was devastated. i felt nothing to loose it by trying and some how it worked on me.
Until jaundice 
May be other supplements were protected me from going too bad.
I was taking regular doses of fish oil niacin statin methylphenidate methylfolate.
Two of them really extremely helpful on joint pains and flu like symptoms
i just doubled the dose and pain dissipated largely. Niacin increased 500g 1-1.5g and high epa fishoil increased to 1.5 g epa 0.5g dha per day.
I thought, I couldn’t live without coffee but, after methylphenidate I am able to switch to decaf, today i just mistakenly drink coffee after forskolin.
I will not want to yield anxiety i will try to push it until bottle empties.
I also suspected that expectation anxiety “ anticipatory anxiety” and nocebo effect have some role in this syndrome and makes it treatment resistant.
This all is interesting to hear. So I was on Letrozol for about 4-5 weeks @ 2.5mg ED.
That was over a year ago.
Before Letrozol my labs looked something like this:
Total Testosterone 12-13 nmol/l [range 10-38]
Free Testosterone 180-190 pmol/l [range 230-585]
SHBG 35-45 nmol/L [range 14-71]
Estradiol(E2) 0.07 nmol/l [range <0.15]
LH 3.7 U/l [range 1-9]
On Letrozol labs looked like this (3-4 weeks on it):
Total Testosterone 30.8 nmol/l [range 10-38]
Free Testosterone 461 pmol/l [range 230-585]
SHBG 37 nmol/L [range 14-71]
Estradiol(E2) 0.08 nmol/l [range <0.15]
LH 8.6 U/l [range 1-9]
After Letrozol labs looked like this (1-2 weeks after cessation):
Total Testosterone 15.3 nmol/l [range 10-38]
Free Testosterone 231 pmol/l [range 230-585]
SHBG 36 nmol/L [range 14-71]
Estradiol(E2) 0.13 nmol/l [range <0.15]
Estradiol(E2)sensitive 0.11 nmol/l [range <0.15]
After cessation of Letrozol I had 1 day (about 4 days after stopping Letro) when my genital sensitivity, visual lust, sex-drive, etc returned to near normal. So testosterone was decreasing, E2 did a rebound and in some point there was this optimal situation and all worked. But after that came the ultimate-horror times. Genitals lost all sensitivity, sleep problems started, gut problems started, whole body skin went numb, etc, etc… Before Letrozol my genitals were bad but not that bad. Before it was more like numbness. But right after starting Letrozol the numbness turned into this unsensitivity, different than before. And has been so for over a year. Before the sensitivity was around 4-5/10 and now it has been like 0,5-1/10 many months and apparently decreasing to 0 on time.
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This is really interesting i got the opposite reaction my sensitivity restored immediately.
I was crying out of joy, it was like a second adolescences most importantly i got my visual lust back while on it regularly. I mean same porn that i watched since adolescent years and i thought I desensitized to it, made me arouse again.
Also when i was out and see a woman i was arousing immediately.
Then I understand what i have lost over the years.
I am really more curious about our opposite reactions to same treatment methods.
Are we all became mentally unstable so we easily influenced by placebo response or our brains rewired randomly and nothing has reliable consistent effect or some of different supplements works in synergy and changes outcome?
Do we have some kind of Nero-inflammation Or altered nerosteroids has unexpected responses according to genetic background of pfs patients?
Lab results are almost same yet outcome completely opposite…