I’m going to request progesterone on my next visit. So you think high progesterone has something to do with your problems? I read through some of you old threads about TRT, but I don’t recall you mentioning it – maybe I didn’t go far enough. My elementary understanding is that a high conversion rate from T to DHT could indicate low prog levels because it acts as an inhibitor in this conversion(?) What, if anything, have you done to address your high prog?
Hi
The reason for not mentioning is that i dident know i had high prog. Only tested it on my latest labs by my own request. Im still waiting to hear back from endo about possible reactions / solutions to high prog.
Yes u are right about the prog inhibiting T --> DHT conversion, thats what i have understood also. My thoughts were that we produce so much dht (like u) so maybe the body tries to increase prog to lower dht but its not enough…
I dont think u can draw conclusions like u have high dht thus low prog. Thats assuming everything working correctly to begin with.
Either way it will be interesting to c where it is at.
Yeah I’m defintely very interested now to see where it’s at, too. Sometime before Xmas I’m going to have to sit for several hours to get a labs order by a clinic doc, because my regular doc is booked up until the new year. After reading one of the older recovery threads about progesterone (the one posted by a Guest, but which turned out to be panic or voice, I can’t recall), and how DHT and prog function on brain I am defintely much more interested in investigating this route, especially since I have such high DHT. If my DHT is sky-high, it’s entirely possible (I’m just speculating, of course) that my prog is low rather than high. If it was low I’d definitely look at the possibility of supplementing it, which seemed to work for some in getting over finasteride. But yeah, like you say, it could come back normal or high just as easily. Anyway, that and I want to look more broadly at the adrenals.
I’ve added L-Tyrosine to my current routine, which I’ve wanted to do for a while but kept forgetting. I’m sure it’s a coincidence, but anyway, I’m in a noticeably lighter mood today. Had pretty significant nighttime wood the last two nights as well, for what it’s worth. Not the full-on kind, but I’d say at least 75%.
I spoke to my endo today, a very nice young guy in his 30s. I like him cause he admits he dont know it all.
So last test showed i had high prog so he was gonna investigate. He came up with some studies in rats that suggested altered sexual behavior when given progesterone. He also said that sexual criminals (or whatever its called ie rapists etc) were given progesterone to remove these urges. I remember reading the same for finasteride!?
He once again said he could not elaborate on the mechanism on this, he just stated thats what he found when researching. Wether it was the reduction in dht or prog itself causing this effect remain unclear, he also dident mention dosage in this studies.
He said he would call an experinced doc (in sweden, i actually read a paper he wrote about testosterone) for council in this regard. I hope he can shed some light but i doubt it will be conclusive.
We also discussed why this elevation in prog but all he could do for now was to retest my adrenals and sex hormones again and take it from there.
He also wanted to know how i came up with progesterone and i told him about a site… He wanted to know wich one and said its always good for us to know whats going on out there. With some luck maybe he can bring this issue up with the right ppl and bring this suffering into the light.
A very uplifting phonecall. I really like when somebody is actually dedecated like this to help you.
Wow, everything’s a double-edged blade, apparently. Interested to hear whatever comes of anything with your doc and his sleuthing. It should be pointed out that, I think, the guys who have used progestoerone supplementation to get over finasteride did so at very low doses. Don’t know what those doses are and what constitutes low or high, but I would imagine that criminal sex offenders in this type of experiment were probably loaded with it!
On another note, the only result I was waiting for from my last test was DHEA, which came back very high, out of range:
DHEA 40.5 (8.7 - 32.9)
Is there anything to make of this result? Last month I had a cortisol AM reading that was mid-range. I can’t seem to find out a whole lot about what DHEA even does, except that it is involved with adrenal function and is basically a precursor for many other hormones. So high DHEA is rather good, then? Or is it a sign of adrenals overworking or else something else not doing its job?
Adrenal function… read the below, and click the link to see the pathways involved.
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1509
More adrenal pathways:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=518
Consider investingating Cushing’s Disease or Adrenal Hyperplasia.
digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C677433.html
I know this is about DHEA-S, but still…
jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten … /59/6/1164
But my mid-level AM Cortisol test from a few weeks ago would not be consistent with Cushings, as far as I can tell, would it? The only urgent tests that remain from the list I had you narrow down that my lab does, and I will do next, are Androstenedione, Estrone (E1), Aldosterone and Progesterone. I’m going to go for these next, but I’m not sure if this is a big enough picture. At this point, though, does the combination of average Cortisol and high DHEA suggest anything?
Probably not but then again, who knows right… just another area to investigate. If you don’t have a moon face, buffalo hump and excessive weight gain, likely it would not be obvious anyway.
You might want to check ACTH (drives DHEA) and Deoxycorticosterone as well on your next round… and Adiol-G.
I’m not an endo, I don’t know… all I know is DHEA is related to adrenal function as an adrenal hormone, and is itself a precursor to other androgens… thus it would seem something is telling your body to put out a lot of DHEA… perhaps to compensate for low T levels? Maybe ask Dr Crisler…
I have an appointment with him tomorrow by phone. It was originally a follow-up after the last appt. when I started getting desperate and thinking that TRT was the option, I’m glad I didn’t jump the TRT gun just yet. Also glad I kept the appt. – I was going to cancel but now I’m really curious about the DHEA and I know that adrenal function is one of his areas. It’s definitely in his treatment range.
I’m getting kind of exhausted with the lab situation, though – having to book appointments with the doc, which can take weeks, and then going for whatever tests they have but not all at once. I’m starting to consider the possibility of Rhein Labs for a one-shot picture of this. Their standard lab test is pretty extensive. Pricey, though, at $225 plus $25 shipping to Canada (I don’t think there’s any way for us to claim any of that on Canadian medicare, is there?). But I also hear that for Cortisol and DHEA or DHEAs saliva tesing is most accurate. www.zrtlab.com does saliva testing at $35 per hormone, plus the same $25 courier fee. Definitely thinking of this.
And no, no moon face or any of the other symptoms you mentioned.
In another forum (I can’t remember which) I was reading that, apparently, low or normal Cortisol and high DHEA can signify a “pre-severe” adrenal burnout. Or at least that it could be an indication, I gather, that the adrenals are working way too hard. Obviously that’s not great to think about. I think it’s possible that I’ve had some kind of adrenal issue all along. I hope it’s not writing a new goddamn chapter.
According to Crisler, the combination of low-normal Cortisol and high DHEA is “stage three” of the adrenal sequence, and stage four is burnout. Adrenals are sprinting he said, to compensate for all kinds of other problems, which could be stress-related or otherwise. He wants to see these levels, though, by a 24 hour unine analysis, and said he’d like to have them through Rhein, and so I agreed.
What’s going on lately:
I do not have the full Rhein panel results with me – I need to have them faxed from the doc, and have been forgetting to get around to it. However, I have been prescribed hydrocortisone on a trial basis to see if it has any effect, since the labs did show that DHEA was indeed off-the-charts high and cortisone was lower-normal range, indicating adrenal stress. Testosterone was low as well, bottom of the range, but it’s been up and down all year, so I’m hoping adrenal support = imporved sleep = stabilized T levels, but more importantly, better overall feeling. I also have decided to have another go with Sustain Alpha for 8 weeks. I had luck with it in the past, so what the hell.
Started Cortef last week, 10mg, and have been taking what I thought was 15mg since day four. I felt good for a couple of days almost immediately, but then felt crap again, and so I bumped the dose to 15mg/day (as per Dr’s request – he said to keep going up by 5mg if I didn’t feel great.) HOWEVER, it somehow did not occur to me that I was accidentally taking 20mg per day. I had gotten an additional supply of pills from the local pharmacy because the caps I got from the compounding pharmacy in the States are too difficult to cut in half. But the pills I got are 20mg each, versus the 10mg caps I have. So I kind of messed up what the hell I was doing for a few days. Duh. That’s the dumb news.
The better news is that out of the ten or so days on it, for at least six of them I’ve felt improvements in all areas – mood, libido, concentration, some morning woods. Hard to tell which is helping more or at all, but maybe the two together are not a bad idea.
I was also prescribed Zopiclone for insomnia. At first I decided I’d have a go with it for a month alongside the hydrocortisone. I used it for one week, and it worked wonders for getting to sleep and staying out for a solid 8 hours, but I’ve decided to drop it. For one I don’t want to add too many ingredients to the mix, and two, I don’t want to develop any dependency on sleeping pills. A lot of people report better sleep once adrenals have been treated, and I’d like to see if I can start getting a decent kip with no drug assistance. Right now I’m just down to 3mg of melatonin for the time being (also have been taking one cap of 5 HTP the last few nights, can’t recall what the mg dose is).
Thats good! Now wouldn’t you feel good if he was treating me also at the same time, and another dude, and maybe another 2,3,4, or even 5 of us…?? 
ei QUINT ,sorry,so what are u taking right now more than hydrocortisone ?
Sustain Alpha. It’s a transdermal.
primordialperformance.com/st … oster.html
I had two half-bottles lying around from last springtime and thought I’d make use of them, but then I started wondering if they’d still be good and so just ordered up two more. Had decent results last year with it, but it didn’t stick in the long run. Hoping for different year/different story.
i was also looking for proviron…it seems dn t be so bad for the axis and it ll lower estradiol and make free testo higher…what do u think?
Did using that stuff help you feel better/improve symptoms?
Did very much, but only for a short time. Like a week or so. But I continued using it into a second bottle, because the goal was also to get my Testosterone levels bumped up, and not just give up if I didn’t feel better asap. I can’t remember the exact timetable (you can read through some of this thread for details, probably), but either near the end or after the second bottle my T levels had gone from bottom third of the normal range to the top third.
I should also say that I was taking a natural aromatase inhibitor (an ATD) for a week or two during the second bottle, but stopped a couple of weeks before the labs. Don’t know how much that was an influence.
I know nothing about Proviron, only that I’ve heard the name. Since it’s it’s a drug, I’d want to research that very carefully, and read as many logs from other users as possible. What do you know about it?
i was looking 4 sustain alpha and i think i ll give a shot cause ppl say it works well …my only question is:does the results,if there are,least after discontinuing it?..one more question :what about the combo sustain alpha +antiestrogens ?or sustain alpha is an antiestrogens too by itself?
thanks guys.