Maximum milk thistle

[joetz]

@bluecloud87

Thank you for coming in here and reporting your improvements Researchers. If you have been screwed over by Saw Palmetto or SSRI’s it is useful having you on this forum. Please stick around and let us know how you get on.

Joetz, Lennon and others - do you all plan to drop the MMT eventually? i am interested in how you all feel once you drop the supplement

You are about to find out what happens when you drop this stuff. I just ran out today! I have 2 more bottle in transit as I type this, but it probably isn’t going to arrive until early next week.

[scaredtodeath]

Yes - took three right before bedtime. Second night was last night - same protocol.

Nothing to notice yet - except BMs are looser and pretty much cleaned the pipes . But no real improvements or swings to note - yet…

[joetz]

@scaredtodeath

Yes - took three right before bedtime. Second night was last night - same protocol.

Nothing to notice yet - except BMs are looser and pretty much cleaned the pipes . But no real improvements or swings to note - yet…

I’m really looking forward to seeing how you are doing a week from now. I went back and read the first post and I wrote it exactly a week after I started. The best is yet to come

[researcher]

just wanted to report that this stuff is great! but unfortunately I am having estrogenic sides (puffy nips, emotional, night sweat) while taking MMT after awhile… so it has kind of died off… Ive always had this problem so its not new… Gonna get my estrogen down and try again.

anybody else have this have sensitive e2?

[noniman]

@researcher

just wanted to report that this stuff is great! but unfortunately I am having estrogenic sides (puffy nips, emotional, night sweat) while taking MMT after awhile… so it has kind of died off… Ive always had this problem so its not new… Gonna get my estrogen down and try again.

anybody else have this have sensitive e2?

Yes.
I did a course of Chinese bitters (from sensiblehealth.com).
It drastically improved my libido but i suffered very strong estrogen related side effects, particularly swelling and puffiness of my lips which makes them look feminine.
Thats why i stopped the treatment after a week.

Same thing happened why i took Liv52 (another liver cleanser).

Maximum milk thistle sounds like a great product and i’m glad its helping people, but i would be concerned about the potential estrogenic effect that it may have on me.
Maybe if was to take it alongside a SERM (Tamoxifen)?
this should completely stop any estrogen side effects, right?

[visionquest99]

I’ve taken the MMT and it’s now been 4 days. So far, no boost in libido or on the sexual side.

If anything, it may have cleared some brain fog. My eyes feel really open on this stuff, if u know what i mean.

I plan to stick with it for 10 days at least, hoping for a big splash.

[Len]

My sexual improvements were noticeable for only the first day or so, and have worn off since. The cognitive sides and sleep have improved drastically however, and have remained so far.

[joetz]

Anyone super hungry on this stuff or is that just me? One change in my body that seems to have stayed is my mouth waters when I think about food. That’s something I didn’t realize I lost.

I went from friday to tuesday without my MMT and was literally tracking the package several times a day to see when my second bottle arrived. I’m going to keep taking it long term because it really helps me.

Anyone wonder what the mechanism is that makes this help?

[Len]

@JOETZ

If I understand correctly what AWOR is saying, we are having a good response because it is lowering our AR signalling. If there is any truth to the theory that we have developed an “allergy” to androgens and our cells are now working to fight off these androgens, then the fact that the signal is lower means our body is not having to fight off the androgens as hard and is in a more peaceful(for lack of a better word) state. Christ, who knows.

My appetite has gotten better. My sleep is much better (I had literally devastating insomnia before MMT). My mood and mental clarity is much, much better. The sexual improvements have left me completely though.

I hope I am not doing more harm than good, but for the moment, I hate the idea of quitting MMT and going back to the horrible cognitive and insomnia issues I had before. Time will tell what is going to happen.

How many people are on this now?

[annon]

i will start as soon as i get rid of this flu i have. my bottles are here and wating.

@lennon. what sexual sides improved for you. any improvements in penis numbness?

[Len]

@ANNON

Every aspect was improved, including sensitivity. However, the improvements were much stronger the first couple of days and have gradually dropped off. The most notable improvement was that I woke up thinking about sex, just like the old days.

[annon]

hey lennon thats great. even if u lost it at least u had it back which means numbness is not permenant. i have been number for almost 2 years and starting to lose faith. glad u had some improvemnts.

[Maria]

I had the same experience. The first few days the effect was the strongest and then it wore off a bit. But I still benefit tremendously. Especially moodwise and cognitively!!! Also, my daily mood swings are 100% gone. I started to think that I had rapid cycling bipolar but the MMT has taken care of those completely.

[DaveK22]

@venceremos

Maria, there is nothing more to read about it… I’m starting to think you are working as a rep for that Natural Wellness company!
When you are buying MMT all you are buying is “Siliphos” (a trademarked name) which is made by Indena and noone else (they hold the patent and trademark for all “phytosome” products)

Indena :
indena.com/
phytosomes.info/
phytosomes.info/public/siliphos.asp

Natural Wellness :
maximummilkthistle.com/product-specifications.htm
maximummilkthistle.com/phytosome-process.htm
ultrathistle.com/siliphos_pharmacology.html
ultrathistle.com/siliphos_clinical_studies.html

All the brands selling Siliphos products (Ultrathisle/Maximum milk thistle by Natural Wellness, Siliphos by Swanson, Siliphos by Thorne) are getting their Siliphos from the SAME MANUFACTURER, Indena. Like I wrote already, MMT is Siliphos™ the exact same coumpound used by other brands such as Thorne and Swanson. ENzymatic therapy also sells something that is the same product on paper (a 1 part silybin extract 2 parts phosphatidilcholine complex) but doesnt use the “Siliphos” trademark, so it is not the product made by Indena. Only the product from Indena can use the “Siliphos” and “phytosome” trademarks.
The only differences between the different Siliphos products are the amount of Siliphos per cap (not an issue, just change the number of caps per day), and the fillers used in the cap.

There is absolutely no reason for you to place your faith only in the Natural Wellness product unless you think its properties stem from the label on the bottle.
All Natural Wellness did was capping Siliphos by Indena and offer it at a higher dosage per pill compared to their competitors, while avoiding to name it “Siliphos”, instead giving it a name of their own, and claiming the highest potency milk thistle product on the market (which is somehow right since they do offer the highest dose per cap).
People, please stop falling so easily into basic marketing tricks.
This thread should actually be called “Siliphos”!

Great dectective work! Here are a few links (found via Google search) direct to Swanson & Thorne’s products…

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU162/ItemDetail
thorne.com/Products/Aging/Antioxidants/prd~SF733.jsp

[alteraffeangst]

hey guys,

writing from germany, trying to find somewhere to order it without needing a credit card. i found this on ebay, could you tell me whether you believe it is the same thing? thank you!

ebay.de/itm/MILK-THISTLE-PHYTOSOME-Natural-Factors-150mg-SILYMARIN-/190351697981?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c51d8683d#ht_1404wt_905

[Maria]

@alteraffeangst

hey guys,

writing from germany, trying to find somewhere to order it without needing a credit card. i found this on ebay, could you tell me whether you believe it is the same thing? thank you!

ebay.de/itm/MILK-THISTLE-PHYTOSOME-Natural-Factors-150mg-SILYMARIN-/190351697981?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c51d8683d#ht_1404wt_905

It seems as far as I can tell that it is the same compound but not the Siliphos trademark. I am an Economist so I really can’t answer this question with 100% certainty…

All the brands selling Siliphos products (Ultrathisle/Maximum milk thistle by Natural Wellness, Siliphos by Swanson, Siliphos by Thorne) are getting their Siliphos from the SAME MANUFACTURER, Indena. Like I wrote already, MMT is Siliphos™ the exact same coumpound used by other brands such as Thorne and Swanson. ENzymatic therapy also sells something that is the same product on paper (a 1 part silybin extract 2 parts phosphatidilcholine complex) but doesnt use the “Siliphos” trademark, so it is not the product made by Indena. Only the product from Indena can use the “Siliphos” and “phytosome” trademarks.

Milk Thistle Phytosome 150 mg
(contains standardized milk thistle extract, 80% silymarin, bound to phosphatidylcholine (from lecithin) in a 1:2 ratio)

[venceremos]

This probably isnt Siliphos, which is a SILYBIN phytosome. This is a Silymarin phytosome (thats what the link says). So no, it isnt the same thing as maximum milk thistle/ultrathistle. The phytosome process makes the coumpound much more bioavailable, so you would be getting potent silymarin, which contains silybin among other compounds. But we dont know wether the other compounds are good for us or not…
What I dont understand is that the natural factor “milk thistle phytosome” product on iherb talks about “15% silybin” and doesnt mention silymarin… swansonvitamins.com/SWU162/ItemDetail
Also i see no “TM” after “phytosome” which is normally a trademark by the makers of siliphos… So Im confused and dont beleive it would be the exactly the same as MMT/Siliphos. But MAYBE it could work the same if you took mre caps… The only way to know…

[Second_Amendment]

ONE WEEK UPDATE

I tried MMT for one week. My results are similar to that of scaredtodeath’s. I had a very unpleasant looking BM and no significant increase in libido. However, I did notice my mood was slightly elevated and I had more energy levels. But I’ve decided not to keep taking it because I don’t want to mess with my optimal estradiol levels. I plan on starting dostinex soon; on paper, it (dostinex) should work. I have good everything minus prolactin. Don’t want to be messing with hormones unnecessarily.

[venceremos]

Do we know if/how milk thitle modulates estradiol levels? (maybe I have missed something) I can only suppose that enhanced liver function makes for a better clearance of excess estrogens, which I guess can only be a good thing? Or maybe there is some other kind of more direct hormonal modulation?

EDIT

I found this, in the same web page!

nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/138.html

Hormone-sensitive conditions such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: Extracts from milk thistle PLANT might act like estrogen. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, don’t use these extracts. In contrast, the more commonly used milk thistle SEED extracts do not seem to act like estrogen.

Estrogens
Milk thistle might decrease hormones in the body. Milk thistle might help the body break down estrogen pills to get rid of them. Taking milk thistle along with estrogens might decrease the effectiveness of estrogen pills. Milk thistle contains a chemical called silymarin. Silymarin might be the part of milk thistle that helps the body break down estrogens.

And it talks about a whole extract, not a silibyn standardized extract.

Also, about the “ugly B.M.” : like most “liver tonic” compounds, MT stimulates bile flow. This may be the reason.

[visionquest99]

After 1 week I’m out too. No noticeable improvement in any way and possible estrogenic effects on pecs.