Dude, you totally just blew my mind. I have thought this whole time something to this extent, but you theorize this whole thing in a very interesting way. I wonder if this means taking MMT will make it harder for my body to heal itself naturally and readjust to androgens or what, but I feel the need to continue for now. A really interesting bunch of posts man, thank you very much.
Do you feel MT set you back persistently, i.e. are you still suffering from this set back worse than before your trial of MT? or were you able to bounce back at all?
Sorry if this has already been covered, I couldn’t see it confirmed explicitly in either thread.
thanks
If you guys are worried about long term use, I am about three weeks into taking MMT and I have not experienced anything like what awor has experienced. For me it’s been steady improvement day after day with a bit of a small “crash” for lack of a better word) after the first week and 1/2 on new years day. I figured new years day was just part of the typical ups and downs your body goes through in a recovery period and stayed on the MMT and am still doing well. On the second of January, I immediately started feeling better and have been doing well since. I’m not discounting anything Awor is saying, I am just posting my own experience. You can read my posts and read Awors posts and make your own decision.
Has anyone using been helped in the shrinkage department
Guys. Everything is going to come with risks. We are seriously fucked up and not in some ideal situation where we can be fussy. Let me tell you now that the biggest risk probably comes with sitting around doing nothing. Look at users such as Keepup, RR3, Snowking, jay89, to.robin just to name a few. These guys have been suffering for over 5 years and many of them are only getting worse. If you are making steady progress towards recovery then sure, don’t touch anything. However, i know myself that i am only getting worse and that i am destined to be one of those guys that is still going to be a complete wreck in 10 years time, if i could even bare to stomach living for that long with post finasteride syndrome.
I went on holiday to a very hot country, bathed in the sun all day, lived extremely healthily and consequently made a prolific recovery. Pretty good right? no risks involved?
WRONG. 3-4 weeks later i crashed and my symptoms became extremely severe. I suddenly had brain fog that made day to day life very difficult. My symptoms got even worse from then on.
Going for a long strenuous jog has done me far more immediate damage than 5 AR inhibitors have since being a PFS victim. Literally. After going for a job one time i just lay on my bed; my brain felt like it was melting, muscles twitching, eyelids twitching and strong feelings of depression and suicide.
I am just trying to make the point that this post finasteride stuff is a complete mess. There are always going to be risks. Myself taking Avodart could be a step way too far, we will see. If it is then that’s my problem. But 3/3 people have felt better taking this Milk Thistle - we owe it to ourselves to rinse this stuff and see if it can help others.
Maybe GHB combined with Maximum Milk Thistle would be the ultimate PFS stack 
just by taking one thing that is alkaline isn’t going to solve any problems caused by an over acidic body. over acidity happens over time… if you want to take this course of action, you need to get on a potent alkaline diet for a few weeks to reverse this. everytime you pee, your body re establishes the proper pH balance… so you have to consistently be on it to keep going back to alkaline until the damage is healed. just like if you eat an acidic diet (stuff not from nature) your body goes acidic and it rebalances everytime you pee… so this isn’t going to change anything regarding pH
Sorry for the delay. I suppose it has helped with shrinkage somewhat as a matter of fact. Sensitivity has increased slightly as well. Do bare in mind that Since the new year I have been taking about 1000mg of L-arginine per day and have had one 20 mg of cialis for blood flow.
Last night, I had my first rough patch. My insomnia came back hard core just as I was laying down to sleep. Insomnia has been one of my most horrible problems since my fin crash. However, eventually I was able to fall asleep and today I feel very good again.
What Awor says is all very interesting. Perhaps since he is extra sensitive he was sit by MT side effects more quickly than others and simply put, he knows things based on his research which we do not. In any event, I am making progress since MT and feel my very best since this whole fin nightmare began. I am crossing my fingers I am not keeping my body from a natural recovery. Time will tell.
Be well everyone.
I respect Awor very much for his scientific approach but do not agree with him always.
He says he did not respond well to Vit D3 and stopped its use. while on this forum and other forum many got benefit from Vit D3 including CDnuts. I have been on Vit D3 since November 2009 and did not have any negative sides. My body did not stop responding it, indeed I started with 6000IU to 8000 IU and now I am taking only 2000 IU to 4000 IU but mostly 2000+ IU. I feel a lot better compared to my past. you guys might have noticed my aggressiveness in my recent posts while look at my old posts I was very depressed.
So the conclusion? although caution is very important but you can not be sure about any thing until a bunch of guys tests it. What other option we have got?
Strength in numbers may be key. If you feel up to taking the possible risk, lets get a few on board here so we can compare. If you are not comfortable doing so, that is fine. Personally, I will keep it up and hope for the best. Thank you Awor for clarifying things for us, your input is always appreciated.
if a person claims MT was the worst experience they had since taking propecia itself… ummm… i think that pretty much speaks for itself
and you guys shouldn’t be placing authority in maria on this because she never even took finasteride… and even if similar mechanisms are taking place, there’s really no way to know for sure because she took accutane, which acts in the body in a different way… plus she’s not a man. i’m not trying to talk down on you maria, but i think this should be emphasized because your experiences are different than ours.
i’ve seen people who take things and they go sky high and get better… then crash down even harder than before.
my 2 cents… if your going to take the risk and take this, be smart about. so eat an E X T R E M E L Y healthy diet… as in mostly vegetables and meat… nothing artificial, all straight from nature and avoid all masturbation while you are on it. MULTIPLE people posted about how they crashed after a masturbation session gone bad… and if your going to mess with your system and bring it back to normal when it doesn’t want to… then further exacerbate and stress it in masturbating… you could be looking at a horrible crash and back a few extra years PFS wise…
If you guys don’t feel comfortable placing authority in maria, what about Lennon and I? Both of us took Finasteride, both of us get extremely sick from it, and both of us have improved taking MMT. I’ve been taking MMT for almost a month and have nothing but good things to report thus far.
I would say I am at least 50% recovered at this point and the best thing is that it is pretty stable. I have taken other supplements that gave me a slight boost (magnesium for example) and quickly wear off and lose their effectiveness.
I wish the guys the best who are attempting treatment with MT. I’m just a bit weary of the risk. I’m no where near as good shape as some of you who say you are super horny at times, have gone on 5 mile runs, etc. Some days I just have to lay in bed all day. I just can’t afford any set backs and keep up with things. I will say I’ve taken MT contained in liver detox kits and I didn’t seem to have adverse reactions that I can remember.
@ Joetz - I havn’t had any improvements with the PFS docs either. Point taken and I definately understand the frustration. I feel a bit more comfortable trying different things (which I have alot alread) under the care of Shippen or Jacobs, particularly Shippen since he’s had so much experience treating us. Good luck and I’ll keep watching this thread for updates.
No problem. I just want to emphasize again, without sounding repetitive, that Awor did not take the same product. I explained the details above a few times. When I took the same product as Awor took, regular Milk Thistle, then I also got significantly worse. It’s like comparing apples with oranges.
For you who want to buy MMT in Europe. I just got this email from the company.
Dear Maria,
Thank you for contacting Natural Wellness.
Unfortunately, we no longer have a distributor of our nutritional supplements in the UK. However, we can certainly ship a package to you in the UK if you’d like to place an order.
Please visit us online at www.Natural-Wellness.com if you wish to place an order.
Sincerely,
The Natural Wellness Team
www.Natural-Wellness.com
Sorry, crap phone.
Maria, what are your thoughts on the above??
Maybe someone should give another brand a shot of this Siliphos stuff?
I will do when i get some cash
Chris, I have not looked into it yet. I’ll read up on it a bit though. I mean if it is the exact same thing but only different brands, then I am sure it’s as good. However, I think I am too scared to take the risk to try anything else though, even if it’s the identical product but different brands, just in case, too be on the safest possible side, because I have been doing so well lately.
Maria, there is nothing more to read about it… I’m starting to think you are working as a rep for that Natural Wellness company!
When you are buying MMT all you are buying is “Siliphos” (a trademarked name) which is made by Indena and noone else (they hold the patent and trademark for all “phytosome” products)
Indena :
indena.com/
phytosomes.info/
phytosomes.info/public/siliphos.asp
Natural Wellness :
maximummilkthistle.com/product-specifications.htm
maximummilkthistle.com/phytosome-process.htm
ultrathistle.com/siliphos_pharmacology.html
ultrathistle.com/siliphos_clinical_studies.html
All the brands selling Siliphos products (Ultrathisle/Maximum milk thistle by Natural Wellness, Siliphos by Swanson, Siliphos by Thorne) are getting their Siliphos from the SAME MANUFACTURER, Indena. Like I wrote already, MMT is Siliphos™ the exact same coumpound used by other brands such as Thorne and Swanson. ENzymatic therapy also sells something that is the same product on paper (a 1 part silybin extract 2 parts phosphatidilcholine complex) but doesnt use the “Siliphos” trademark, so it is not the product made by Indena. Only the product from Indena can use the “Siliphos” and “phytosome” trademarks.
The only differences between the different Siliphos products are the amount of Siliphos per cap (not an issue, just change the number of caps per day), and the fillers used in the cap.
There is absolutely no reason for you to place your faith only in the Natural Wellness product unless you think its properties stem from the label on the bottle.
All Natural Wellness did was capping Siliphos by Indena and offer it at a higher dosage per pill compared to their competitors, while avoiding to name it “Siliphos”, instead giving it a name of their own, and claiming the highest potency milk thistle product on the market (which is somehow right since they do offer the highest dose per cap).
People, please stop falling so easily into basic marketing tricks.
This thread should actually be called “Siliphos”!
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